Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7

[Rational]

Let's put the trailer to bed.....Including Tomkat and Brangelina... Allison's clothes fibres etc would have been all over the cars prior. Forensics would be interested in cars for blood and other post mortem clues.

 

[Hawkins]

Ok, so there's been a bit of discussion about GBC's barrister who seems to be... Well...pretty determined for lack of a better word. How do the prosecution "barristers" (if that's what they are called) in qld measure up? Are they sharp? Are they equally as aggressive? How successful do they tend to be? I realize we don't even have anyone charged yet so don't even know who will control this case but interested in the process in a general sense nonetheless. I hope they have a talented, aggressive pit bull that will bury the murderer.

The best Crown prosecutors are a match for any members of the private bar practicing crime in Queensland. Some complex matters are briefed out to private barristers and in a matter like this it would go to one of a handful of the best. No advantage to Mr Baden Clay if there is a trial in terms of quality of lawyers. The advantages are all to the prosecution who have far greater resources.

 

[itsthevibe]

Yes - and that we're only meant to be discussing things that can be verified by media and other available reference sources, and our analysis of same.

Why would you want to talk about a trailer? What difference would it make? what's the point?

Untrue - we are allowed to speculate. Some people have speculated about a trailer which is perfectly OK. I personally am unsure about a trailer but I dont see anything wrong with others discussing it as it does no harm, and still could have credence.

 

[truth_morph]

I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.

Um, then you're having micro naps between posts. There was previous discussion on this subject. That's the pivotal moment that I realised whatever is claimed here, particularly by the supposed 'locals', I take zero notice of. There's been nothing of substance since about the second thread.

Is there high unemployment in QLD or something? Some people have far too much time on their hands.:floorlaugh:

 

[Hawkins]

I hope they have a talented, aggressive pit bull that will bury the murderer.

It is also premature to talk of burying a murderer. The death may well have been the result of a manslaughter. The distinction is not a technical one. The best criminal advocates are rarely those who are aggressive. Witnesses generally do not respond well to aggressiona and neither do juries. The best advocates are thoughtful, analytical and thorough.

 

[itsthevibe]

Does anyone think they labs were able to get samples of any skin left under the nails of the deceased (assuming there was a struggle and ABC say scratched the perpetrator(s)) and do a match with some of the DNA taken from any suspect?

Someone who seemed to have forensic knowledge did post on one of the earlier threads after the body had been found - and they raised this issue and said that it is possible that even samples under the nails could be gone. Not definitely but very possibly I think was the implication. I remember being quite downcast about this at the time - as it would help so much.

 

[Rational]

I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.

Thanks Keyboredom of once again reminding us all of that moment ( Not!!) but I believe this sense of humour has kept us all going from time to time even if not appreciated by all! It is by me.

 

[itsthevibe]

that would only prove they had a fight

Yes, but it could still be helpful in conjunction with other evidence.

 

[Limaes]

I wish we could just have crappy nothing islands in the middle of nowhere to send these people...

Lol they did. Called Australia.

Gold!! If we had a pool room this would be going straight there :clap:

 

[indogwetrust]

Um, then you're having micro naps between posts. There was previous discussion on this subject. That's the pivotal moment that I realised whatever is claimed here, particularly by the supposed 'locals', I take zero notice of. There's been nothing of substance since about the second thread.

Is there high unemployment in QLD or something? Some people have far too much time on their hands.:floorlaugh:

Am curious truth morph - how do you tell the difference between a supposed local and a local? Is it just a hunch, do you meditate on the words ... what?

Am just wondering if you use a similar method in determining what is and isn't of substance?

There's been some great info posted lately, shame you've not seen it.

 

[plentyofnous]

Yes, but it could still be helpful in conjunction with other evidence.

thats what I was alluding to

 

[Inanna]

Of course we can speculate. I have just been noticing though that speculation has occurred over "facts" that are not at all fact. Such as the trailer being seen on CCV.

It is easy to blame the husband. The public has run with that (understandably). The public has little facts - this is not because there isn't evidence but because the public don't need it. When the forensics come in there will be much more clarity - DNA matching of fibres and fluids is important in this case.

 

[Neuromancer]

Trailer ... Hmmmm ?

Begs the question whether Tomkat or Brangelina were recently spotted in Brookefield as possible accomplices rather than Nigelaine.

It was Suri!

 

[SKMA]

My other question is - what "evidence" would have needed to be got rid of in industrial bins, or any bins?

Perhaps the blanket or sheet or whatever that might have been used to wrap the body in. Once the body had been dumped, they took it with them and needed a place to dispose of it. And anything else that had been in contact with the body.

 

[kiwi50]

It appears we know a lot less than we thought, now we discover GBC hasn't even given the police a statement. No wonder the police were so suspicious, even more so if a lawyer was present. What if NBC was also there?

If GBC killed Alison I think he is more like to have rung his father, and asked him to come to the house not meet him at a roundabout, and doubt if he would have told his father by phone what the emergency actually was. it would certainly be easier to dispose of a body with two people.
If there was an accomplice I see NBC as a better option than your lover.

I can't see a trailer being used, when you could wrap a body and easily fit it in a 4WD. Would be a lot harder trying to find somewhere to dump a body, when you had to be able to drive a car with trailer into dumping place.

Was something actually SEEN at roundabout or was something FOUND?
Any thoughts on what this could be?

I can see the first solicitor saying to GBC, we won't need to hire a barrister
UNLESS Alison's body is found, well what do you know....
I guess GBC could have told first solicitor the truth, seeing he is no longer acting for him, I can't see that it would compromise him.

 

[willough]

I don't dismiss the idea of the trailer. Though since the only part of the trailer we have actually seen, shows a GAWDY, BRIGHT yellow trailer, I highly doubt a trailer would have been used. That is the sort of color that anyone would notice in the midst of the night.....I just cant imagine the perpetrator wanting to be so obvious.

But again....Since we dont know....WHO KNOWS BAYBEE!!!!

 

[Champagne4lulu]

The best Crown prosecutors are a match for any members of the private bar practicing crime in Queensland. Some complex matters are briefed out to private barristers and in a matter like this it would go to one of a handful of the best. No advantage to Mr Baden Clay if there is a trial in terms of quality of lawyers. The advantages are all to the prosecution who have far greater resources.

Well that's good to hear

God even the thought of one of those guys interrogating me for anything and i think I'd burst into tears. They are so intimidating and from what I've seen, pretty damn clever. as they should be. God help whomever has to take them on

 

[Ixnaye]

There has been theories of Domestic Violence and "Love Taps" etc mentioned. Does anyone know if there is actually a history of DV in the house? Have the police ever responded to the house in the past due to reports of arguments or DV?

I grew up beside a man that would regularly beat the crap out of his wife and kids, his wife was never the one to call the police, it was everyone else in the street who called them, she would never press charges, they would take him away for the night to cool off and he would be back the next day.

So while there may have been no charges laid of anything like that I'm wondering if the police did have a record of attending previous incident/s at the house and if that is why the police responded so fast when Allison was reported as not returning from a morning walk.

The QPS Facebook site is constantly posting stories about missing people and they have not been seen for days/weeks but they don't respond to those like they responded to Allison being missing. There must have been a reason why they were so concerned for her wellbeing and reacted so swiftly and in numbers as they did.

 

[itsthevibe]

As to how people can afford expensive legal representation. The solicitor would require that the client place an initial sum of money into his trust account, and monthly invoices will be drawn against this. The barrister will also require this. The barrister is paid by the solicitor, not directly by the client. In many cases the client will not have the cash needed and so will mortgage a property that they own to cover it. The solicitor may then be the mortgage holder or it may be done through a bank. If the client is subsequently acquited then the fees paid for their defence are not recoverable from the State. People (and their relatives/friends) quite often lose their homes after successfully defending criminal charges. Legal aid is very difficult to obtain due to the relevant means tests. If you are going to mortgage your home, or ask your relatives to, in order to defend yourself then you might as well use the money to get the best you can afford, since the money will not be recouped.

As to lawyers dealing with clients who make admissions or confessions but who want to plead not guilty. The lawyer must inform the client that the lawyer is unable to say anything in court which is inconsistent with what the client has said. They cannot, for instance, assert that the client was not present at the time of the offence, suggest to eye-witnesses that they are mistaken or suggest to the jury some other version of events other than what the client has told them. They can only put the Crown to proof and suggest to the jury that the Crown has not met this evidentiary burden. That is sometimes effective where the Crown case is largely circumstantial. If the client insists on giving oral evidence in court then the lawyer cannot allow the client to say anything under oath which is inconsistent with the confession made. If the client does this, regardless, then the lawyer must withdraw from the matter, without telling the court why. The judge will of course realise what is going on.

Barristers do not generally have the option of refusing, or withdrawing from, a case because they dislike or disapprove of a client. The cab rank rule requires them to accept a brief where the matter is within their expertise and they have the time. Criticising barristers for complying with their ethical responsibilities is pointless. Outside many court buildings you will see a statue of a lady with a blindfold holding scales. Themis represents justice being blind. Meaning that cases are decided on the evidence, not on personal feelings, hunches, biases or community outrage. If a prosecution fails it is either because the accused was indeed innocent, or the evidence was insufficient to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt, or the prosecution was incompetent. The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth. There are no secret arguments or rules to find. Witnesses may not be tricked. But defective evidence and insufficient procedural work can and should be identified by a competent lawyer.

The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth.

Well no it's not - this doesnt fit in with your argument. The Barrister is clever as he is better at identifying and highlighting defective evidence and insufficient procedural work, cross-examining, and everything else within his/her scope of things.

 

[plentyofnous]

It appears we know a lot less than we thought, now we discover GBC hasn't even given the police a statement. No wonder the police were so suspicious, even more so if a lawyer was present. What if NBC was also there?

If GBC killed Alison I think he is more like to have rung his father, and asked him to come to the house not meet him at a roundabout, and doubt if he would have told his father by phone what the emergency actually was. it would certainly be easier to dispose of a body with two people.
If there was an accomplice I see NBC as a better option than your lover.

I can't see a trailer being used, when you could wrap a body and easily fit it in a 4WD. Would be a lot harder trying to find somewhere to dump a body, when you had to be able to drive a car with trailer into dumping place.

Was something actually SEEN at roundabout or was something FOUND?
Any thoughts on what this could be?

I can see the first solicitor saying to GBC, we won't need to hire a barrister
UNLESS Alison's body is found, well what do you know....
I guess GBC could have told first solicitor the truth, seeing he is no longer acting for him, I can't see that it would compromise him.

Most competent Solicitors will not let you talk to them, rather they will ask you questions to prevent them finding out about admissions or evidence, there job is to defend you, they ll want to know what they need to know, not necessarily what you want to tell them, Solicitors of the caliber of these are very skilled in this area