Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7

[Keyboredom]

There was a member who posted back in thread 1 or 2 that explained who owned that house that GBC and ABC rent and also the one's around it...From memory that house or the one close by on the Hill???? belongs to the parents of infamous Daniel Tzvetkoff...He did go into quite a bit of detail from memory of the homes in that immediate area...I just can't remember what it was (Sorry) If you feel like trawling back through it, I am pretty sure it is in thread 2??

Whoever posted it was a local all of their lives or their parents are??

If you can be bothered to look it would be worth posting again?

That might have been me. The house the BC's are in was on the original block of land that the Child Care Centre was then built on. Opposite them is a house that Daniel Tzvetkoff's parents brought from him when he encountered a few 'financial issues' (he's not really relevant to the case so I guess I shouldn't mention him, although the occupants of the house looking down on the BC house would have a decent vantage point and possibly hear things on nights with minimal traffic)

I don't know anything about the Baden-Clay's real estate interests, except that he unsuccessfully tried to purchase a particular local house, probably to set up a real esate office as it was in a main road location. He was beaten to it by someone with a better offer.

I also think the guy is a lot of talk and it's not surprising he couldn't afford to buy a house, if this is the case. His real estate methods strike me as puffery and all a bit hollow compared to the hard core old school successful property salespeople/offices. An old mate of mine running a successful franchise said it is all about hard work and foot slogging, not websites (other than realestate.com.au) and blogs. I get the idea GBC wasn't into the hard work, and possibly thought property was all about kissing babies and shaking hands, and writing about himself a lot.

 

[minni]

I wonder if QPS know about this? Were they at risk of losing a substantial amount of money, maybe their own house if a divorce happened?

i reckon they would know that plus a hell of a lot more about this family

 

[HocusFocus]

I can't stop thinking about the position of the body.
My apologies if I am way off here, but someone posted footage from channel 10 a few threads back. It apparently showed the position of the body. I haven't been able to watch it as I'm on my iPhone and it won't load on here.
It was described that she was on her side with one arm stretched above her head.
Now if someone was hiding a body - dumping it in a dry creek bed or anywhere else, wouldn't they position the arms and legs together - arms by side or in front of the chest? You wouldn't want any stray limbs sticking out (sorry that sounds so awful!). So my thoughts are that the body has moved shortly after being dumped, or dumped well after being killed when rigor has set in (apparently reaches full rigor mortis around 12 hours after death.
Maybe being in water for so long changes this though.
Also sorry if this has aleady been brought up, I'm frantically trying to keep up!!

 

[mountainhigh]

Its a shame that no sensitivity was shown in the disposal of abc's body.

There is no way anyone in their right mind can argue with that comment, and whilst 18 people thanked you for this comment, there is also no evidence to suggest that any of the 'women' had anything to do with evil act.

 

[minni]

There has been some speculation about something being dumped in the industrial bins near that roundabout. Couldn't be the murder weapon if it was the back of someone's hand! What about a blanket? I can't imagine driving around in a car without covering Allison. I agree - wouldn't leave it at the site. Maybe couldn't face taking it home - or maybe it had been contaminated with soil from where they left Allison. Just speculating!

that was me...I got the feeling that the police may have seen some activity or cars in the village carpark, because on the CCTV you can see a section of carpark, which got me thinking about the bins out the back. Its possible something was put in them, or taken out again after change of heart, or something was just put there whilst a plan was made? blanket seems like a good possibility (my first thought was worse...perhaps Allison had been placed there temporarily, but it was logically pointed out how difficult it would be to not only get something large in the bin (sorry) but more so to get something back out)

 

[minni]

So if all this water is passing through at such a fast rate, this could also mean a body placed quite a long distance, well up stream, could be brought down by the water to where Allison's body was found. The Little Ugly Creek you mentioned, going by maps, seems to flow right through that State Forest.

It just seems to me dumping her body somewhere near that scout camp would be a bit of a too obvious place...considering the familys scout connections.

A State Forest would be a better hiding place?? What sort of access or entrance points does that forest have??

the autopsy will reveal if the body was moved....hope we find out soon

 

[marlywings]

they would know

Wondering just how much the computers will tell police....as well as the "shredded papers"....

 

[possumheart]

There was a member who posted back in thread 1 or 2 that explained who owned that house that GBC and ABC rent and also the one's around it...From memory that house or the one close by on the Hill???? belongs to the parents of infamous Daniel Tzvetkoff...He did go into quite a bit of detail from memory of the homes in that immediate area...I just can't remember what it was (Sorry) If you feel like trawling back through it, I am pretty sure it is in thread 2??

Whoever posted it was a local all of their lives or their parents are??

If you can be bothered to look it would be worth posting again?

How bizarre

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

It also makes me angry with all of you on here defending people named,insinuated etc. If these people are reading this blog, why don't you post a quick message or why not go to the media and make a statement that takes away any implications.?????? It is in your hands to clear up any speculation.


cranky pants on today.

For one thing those people may not be reading and I don't think the onus is on them to explain anything to us who are speculating on them. Yes they do have the onus to tell all that they know to Police, but as for the rest of us..not. I also feel just as others are outright accusing and treating as fact those that are named or insinuated here as fact they comitted crime, others have the right to put forward suggestions or thought that they don't believe it to be so.

 

[CJ60]

I can't stop thinking about the position of the body.
My apologies if I am way off here, but someone posted footage from channel 10 a few threads back. It apparently showed the position of the body. I haven't been able to watch it as I'm on my iPhone and it won't load on here.
It was described that she was on her side with one arm stretched above her head.
Now if someone was hiding a body - dumping it in a dry creek bed or anywhere else, wouldn't they position the arms and legs together - arms by side or in front of the chest? You wouldn't want any stray limbs sticking out (sorry that sounds so awful!). So my thoughts are that the body has moved shortly after being dumped, or dumped well after being killed when rigor has set in (apparently reaches full rigor mortis around 12 hours after death.
Maybe being in water for so long changes this though.
Also sorry this has been brought up, I'm frantically trying to keep up!!

I have googled some dreadful things after joining this forum. I think I read somewhere that the process reverses itself? I'm no expert, but there are some very knowledgable people on this forum - so when they read your post, they will be able to explain far better than I. And the changes that happen after being in water so long..... I had nightmares after googling that, especially when an image came up.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Tried to post on this last night, but seems the forum was down..

Thank God for Hawkins!

I want to say again caution has to be exercised given this thread does not have the full information.

I think the reason why the police came immediately was likely because it was clear that something had gone down at the house. (the family home of A & G). GBC made a 000 call because it was obvious something violent/critical had occurred. NOT because his wife was an hour late back from her morning walk. Yes, it could have been part of the "disposal" plan... Or it could be that he knew nothing...

It is necessary for the QP to have all the bows tied.

I suggest that GBC isn't the killer but he knows & the QPS know who is. It just requires ensuring it is proven...

GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public. I think his connection with this (apart from his spouse) is business dealings or a crime of passion from the OW...

IF TW is the OW - she is highly passionate and driven... if she did it I would say it was accidental. Perhaps she drove the pajero with the body in it...dumped it & returned the car back... This is why doors were open etc. As for strength. Adrenaline does amazing things. Forensics will know if her body was immersed in water, or if she was under the bridge for some days. This is all known now.

If the killer is not known to "us" - I still suggest this is probably what happened. The family car was used to dispose of the body.

I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.

I think that the visit was to advise an arrest is imminent so the press are going to go crazy...

I have been coming to this thought for sometime also. I am not certain GBC is guilty as most seem to believe. I am not sure of course, and I in the beginning also was leaning towards him being it. I am not so sure now, there are some things that make me question. I have never outright accused on here regardless. Because we don't know and don't have the facts. And its not our jobs, the QPS are doing a fantastic job and hope they get the person/s responsible soon. I think its a matter of time.

As I have said previously, if not guilty, I do think GBC has some knowledge of what happened or at the least who is responsible. (I could be wrong). And I agree he may have stuff to hide that he does not want out there.

I have decided to take it easy on the posting of late. There has not been alot of facts coming out and have found it a little difficult to read the rehashing over of things and people picking apart every little thing of people involved to support the fact - they believe to be true. I am not having a dig at anyone here. People are entitled to say what they feel within reason. I guess its the fact some have hung drawn and quartered a couple of people in the case, and made as factual some things that are just opinions and theory..those things I don't mind so much its just when it turns all of a sudden to fact. Again I am not directing this at anyone, just my feelings- nothing more.

 

[coolcat]

That might have been me. The house the BC's are in was on the original block of land that the Child Care Centre was then built on. Opposite them is a house that Daniel Tzvetkoff's parents brought from him when he encountered a few 'financial issues'.

I don't know anything about the Baden-Clay's real estate interests, except that he unsuccessfully tried to purchase a particular local house, probably to set up a real esate office. He was beaten to it by someone with a better offer.

I also think the guy is a lot of talk and it's not surprising he couldn't afford to buy a house, if this is the case. His real estate methods strike me as puffery and all a bit hollow compared to the hard core old school successful property salespeople/offices. An old mate of mine running a successful franchise said it is all about hard work and foot slogging, not websites (other than realestate.com.au) and blogs. I get the idea GBC wasn't into the hard work.

I have often wondered over the last few weeks what he has actually done with his money...ost of the properties he has sold oe are on the Market are over 350,000 the commission on these would be quite substantial - I know that he has had alot of staff in the past but even still with the Rental Role and Sales he would still be earning quite a bit - enough at least to have a mortgage on someting. It could be possible that the businees owns the house they live in and they pay rent back to the business - Some sort of tax thing...I am not an expert on how this works but am assuming that maybe the business can claim back the rent or the property in some way? Just a thought on why they possibly rent...It really does strike me as odd that they do rent though given that he promotes owning your own home.

I am also assuming that ABC would of earned a fair chunk of change in her position at Flight Centre as she was quite high up on the ladder - Where did that money go if it wasn't invested in property...I wonder if her Superannuation was worth quite a bit and this is what GBC had planned to collect upon her death...I am assuming that she made GBC the benificiary to this?

 

[Zorro]

1. where has any woman's name been mentioned in the media that now gives you right of way to be throwing her/their names about??

I think the public characters of this case are:
GBC and his sister OW (media)
NBC & EBC (parents and business associates of GBC)
ABC (deceased wife of GBC)
TM (former colleague of GBC)
The Dickies (parents of ABC)
SHE (children of ABC and GBC)

TM was identified cleary in the media by quoting directly from her C21 work website profile.

There has been a lot of wild speculation here about cars and faces in media video clips as well as former C21 people which as far as I can see amount to factual zip-zero in terms of the murder case.

I believe there will be an arrest later this week of one of the characters above because of the political reality that the police commissioner would have to brief the police minister and QPS media management can't swing from one Sunday newspaper suggesting an arrest is imminent to the next Sunday without an arrest. I think there will be charges laid against at least one of the other characters above for their part.

 

[factfinda]

1. where has any woman's name been mentioned in the media that now gives you right of way to be throwing her/their names about??

2. No point about complaining to media outlets as you have suggested because I don't believe any of them have once printed a name??

3. this is not about social media getting a bad wrap, this is about the fact that many in here think its 'ok' to mention names or initialls when these people's names have not been made public..

4. "Sensitiivity for livliehoods - well don't read it!"
what sort of comment is that even supposed to be?? I am sure the women you are mentioning very freely on this forum are not worried about themselves reading it, but perhaps its crossed their minds that they are worried about the people they sit next to at work, or thier friends and family, their neighbours, their children's friends and family etc etc etc etc etc..

I think if you were in their shoes you may have a largey different opinion on the throwing around of people's names that have not been reported in media or by the police..

whatever happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty! And nobody has even been charged yet??

I couldn't agree more. When this whole case is over I am sure there will be innocent people's names/initials who have been dragged through the mud and everyone's accusations will be on here for anyone to Google for many years to come.

 

[marlywings]

whatever happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty! And nobody has even been charged yet??

I think it's fair to say the majority of people on here & in the wider community of Allison's are really just looking for answers.

Last night I was looking into "appearances" of people who've committed murders, been found guilty & subsequently sentenced. One of those I looked at was the "wild" looking Arthur Freeman, who I'm sure, most would remember.....threw his daughter over the side of a bridge in Vic.

In the sentencing of Freeman, Justice Paul Coghlan said the following...

“You brought the broader community into this case in a way that has been rarely, if ever, seen before. It offends our collective conscience.”

Yes, to date, no-one has been charged with Allison's murder but I think this "offends our collective conscience" explains why people are looking for those answers. At the same time, this shouldn't be used an excuse to throw around any old tom, dick or harry's name...who may not be in any way, shape or form connected to this case.

 

[Bayside]

I have googled some dreadful things after joining this forum. I think I read somewhere that the process reverses itself? I'm no expert, but there are some very knowledgable people on this forum - so when they read your post, they will be able to explain far better than I. And the changes that happen after being in water so long..... I had nightmares after googling that, especially when an image came up.

I have seen a couple of pics of deceased bodies that have drowned. This isn’t something I like to look at as it sticks in my mind and these pics I saw have ever since.

Something I noticed and asked about was that in both pics the deceased had there arms up and knees bent. I asked why both were like that (not both drowned at same time).

In simple terms it was explained to me that was how they floated when riga mortise set in they stay in that position. Also the bodies which were both retrieved several days after drowning looked nothing like what the poor people looked like, I don’t know you could tell it was them. Both of these ended up being accidental drowning btw.

 

[Keyboredom]

I have often wondered over the last few weeks what he has actually done with his money...ost of the properties he has sold oe are on the Market are over 350,000 the commission on these would be quite substantial - I know that he has had alot of staff in the past but even still with the Rental Role and Sales he would still be earning quite a bit - enough at least to have a mortgage on someting. It could be possible that the businees owns the house they live in and they pay rent back to the business - Some sort of tax thing...I am not an expert on how this works but am assuming that maybe the business can claim back the rent or the property in some way? Just a thought on why they possibly rent...It really does strike me as odd that they do rent though given that he promotes owning your own home.

I am also assuming that ABC would of earned a fair chunk of change in her position at Flight Centre as she was quite high up on the ladder - Where did that money go if it wasn't invested in property...I wonder if her Superannuation was worth quite a bit and this is what GBC had planned to collect upon her death...I am assuming that she made GBC the benificiary to this?

Not sure what his commission split was but the salesperson generally gets around 1-1.5% of the sale price, and the office/principal gets the remainder (the other 1-1.5%) Looking at sales on the property sites for the last couple of years, Century 21 Westside doesn't feature very often. Poor turnover coupled with a taste for the black Lexus, moving to large flash offices (which are not very visible and way off the main drag, completely at odds with the visibility most offices want) would be a bad mix. Not sure what the rental roll is like (I think Allison was listed as property management back in '08 and someone more junior on the recent site?). He'd be paying rent, some salaries for staff not on commission only, vehicle/s fuel etc, maintenance, accounting, dry cleaning the yellow jacket etc. I think it's easy to believe he wasn't/isn't very flush with cash. On top of his own issues the entire industry is in the crapper, compared to 5-7 years ago.

I'd say the "self made man" used every bit of money Allison brought into the relationship in pursuit of his dreams.

The house they are in is not owned by anyone associated with them or by a company they control, afaik. Even if he was financial enough to buy the property (which I think may be a single title containing both the house and child care centre, so he'd need $1.5M+) he probably wouldn't be able to legally claim deductions renting something that was not at arms length (ie. if he bought something purely as a tax dodge, the ATO would be a lot smarter than him when it came to tax time). The parents don't appear to be flush either if they have a $300K mortgage over the type of house they're in (purchased for $150k originally), I think Durness Street got pretty wet during the floods.

 

[ynotdivein]

Bumping the original post for a refresher....

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Currently, we are considering Allison's husband to be a suspected person of interest in this case. There is a possible second party involved per MSM and it is okay to discuss that aspect, but please refrain from accusing anyone of murder at this juncture. Speculating is one thing, accusing is another.


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REMEMBER: No cutting and pasting of comments from other social or media websites. You may paraphrase and provide a link.

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[minni]

Tried to post on this last night, but seems the forum was down..




I have been coming to this thought for sometime also. I am not certain GBC is guilty as most seem to believe. I am not sure of course, and I in the beginning also was leaning towards him being it. I am not so sure now, there are some things that make me question. I have never outright accused on here regardless. Because we don't know and don't have the facts. And its not our jobs, the QPS are doing a fantastic job and hope they get the person/s responsible soon. I think its a matter of time.

As I have said previously, if not guilty, I do think GBC has some knowledge of what happened or at the least who is responsible. (I could be wrong). And I agree he may have stuff to hide that he does not want out there.

I have decided to take it easy on the posting of late. There has not been alot of facts coming out and have found it a little difficult to read the rehashing over of things and people picking apart every little thing of people involved to support the fact - they believe to be true. I am not having a dig at anyone here. People are entitled to say what they feel within reason. I guess its the fact some have hung drawn and quartered a couple of people in the case, and made as factual some things that are just opinions and theory..those things I don't mind so much its just when it turns all of a sudden to fact. Again I am not directing this at anyone, just my feelings- nothing more.

thanks UnfoldingTruth...I have visited this idea a few times both on this forum and in my head. I'm sorry to say I have also been one of the first people to jump on the next theory bandwagon and see the possibilities in those theories too. I think about how I will feel about my comments if he is innocent. But agree that lately I find it hard to picture him in the act of both murdering and covering up. I don't know him..I just feel this way.

 

[HocusFocus]

I have seen a couple of pics of deceased bodies that have drowned. This isn’t something I like to look at as it sticks in my mind and these pics I saw have ever since.

Something I noticed and asked about was that in both pics the deceased had there arms up and knees bent. I asked why both were like that (not both drowned at same time).

In simple terms it was explained to me that was how they floated when riga mortise set in they stay in that position. Also the bodies which were both retrieved several days after drowning looked nothing like what the poor people looked like, I don’t know you could tell it was them. Both of these ended up being accidental drowning btw.

Are you saying the body would still maintain the same position it was in when rigor mortis sets in?