Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #10

[Cleaver Greene]

I believe that WAPOL had enough evidence to arrest BE without any DNA evidence. Familial DNA is very contentious and I haven't been able to find any Australian cases where a defendant was convicted on familial DNA. If you read the articles discussing familial DNA you will see that it is a controversial area with only a couple of states in the USA that have accepted it.

In Australia, the general principle is that DNA can only be taken if there is a reasonable suspicion of offending, or if a person volunteers their DNA. This is because Australia has an expectation of privacy and that the government can only take our personal information under certain circumstances. The ability to obtain familial DNA to then link a person to certain crimes encroaches on that privacy.

If a judge finds that the DNA was not lawfully obtained, then it could be excluded, as will all evidence obtained as a result of the DNA match. In my opinion it would be very risky for WAPOL to arrest someone based on familial DNA, because it is such a controversial area. It would be disastrous for everybody if BE was arrested and charged based on unlawfully obtained evidence and he is then acquitted because the evidence is excluded.

One day familial DNA will be tested in an Australian court and a judge will make a decision about whether it is admissible. I just think that running this argument on an accused serial killer is too big a risk.

All just my opinion.

 

[papertrail]

In light of the Chain of custody issues alleged by Bret Christian in the Post Newspaper article I'm not surprised that WAPOL are being extra careful about making Subjudicial commentary. I think this will be the first area that the defence bring up in court

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the last 3 sentences in today's media article were :

Police declined to comment on the car seizure yesterday.

A spokesman said: “As this matter is now before the courts and there remains an ongoing investigation, WA Police will not be making any further comment.

“We urge the media and public to also be respectful of the judicial process.”

 

[b4u]

2006 actually and no mention in article of ethnicity. woman may have calculated age incorrectly. i do note height of 183 cms is mentioned that is same height that Karrakatta perpetrator was considered to be.

BRE's skin may be olive toned. His brother's skin certainly is.

Mirrors my thoughts exactly.

 

[papertrail]

I believe that WAPOL had enough evidence to arrest BE without any DNA evidence. Familial DNA is very contentious and I haven't been able to find any Australian cases where a defendant was convicted on familial DNA. If you read the articles discussing familial DNA you will see that it is a controversial area with only a couple of states in the USA that have accepted it.

In Australia, the general principle is that DNA can only be taken if there is a reasonable suspicion of offending, or if a person volunteers their DNA. This is because Australia has an expectation of privacy and that the government can only take our personal information under certain circumstances. The ability to obtain familial DNA to then link a person to certain crimes encroaches on that privacy.

If a judge finds that the DNA was not lawfully obtained, then it could be excluded, as will all evidence obtained as a result of the DNA match. In my opinion it would be very risky for WAPOL to arrest someone based on familial DNA, because it is such a controversial area. It would be disastrous for everybody if BE was arrested and charged based on unlawfully obtained evidence and he is then acquitted because the evidence is excluded.

One day familial DNA will be tested in an Australian court and a judge will make a decision about whether it is admissible. I just think that running this argument on an accused serial killer is too big a risk.

All just my opinion.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/501-520/tandi506.html

 

[user29]

Incredible work by WAPOL !

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/claremont-murders-car-seized-ng-b88346860z

A matter of weeks......

Got to wonder what made him appear on the radar.........this is still a missing piece for me, we can assume it wasnt the vehicle...

 

[papertrail]

I was surprised to read a year before Julie Cutler went missing another lady Sally Greenham went missing 1997 Adelaice Tce. Kerry Turner all on a road down Armadale way as a option. Another thing I always thought regardless of all these locations they were not that isolated. I'm sure a predator could of found women in a safer more secluded area for himself. I say still besides the time of night their still would of been regular cars passing by. Another with the Claremont era was their was a police station a stones throw down the road. Did he have knowledge of it's operating hours? So it appears in all these cases including Gerard Ross their was a element of risk and the same crimes could of found safer locations. The alleged incident in Huntingdale shows no fear factor.

Actually Sally disappeared in 1987 not 1997; probably a typo.

 

[user29]

+ i guess the media are on controlled lockdown - the cops have had the car for two weeks and a) we didnt know it about it here b) press didn't know or told not to publish

Any way to understand what other activity occurred on those dates (police public records) etc.

For someone with knowledge - Can DNA sustain 20 years in an active environment (inside of a car)

He either slipped up or got dobbed in IMO!

 

[papertrail]

one thing that has got my interest is : isn't the Robyn Santen coronial inquest commencing on 25 January and isn't that the same day the BRE has an appearance in the judicial system ?

 

[b4u]

Has there been previous discussion in here on the "Dr ******" posts (2006) re the CSK and Madora Bay and Gosnells references?

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...an/comments/uk_link_in_wa_serial_murders/P25/
page 2/5 of the comments

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Dr.******

Thu 07 Dec 06 (10:25pm)[/FONT]

I saw on ABC News here tonight (thurs 7 dec) that there is no link in Mark Dixie being involved in the Claremont Serial Killings or any other disappearances of women in Perth,Australia.So they must obviously have some DNA from the sticky tape used or from nearby at the body sites. The police have my DNA sample & since they haven`t been back, they have discounted me too. I was up in Broome years ago & felt someone was nearby as i was driven to Cable beach.I had this feeling 3 times. I didnt go & search in the dunes as it was hot & humid as. ( dec/jan) A tourist found a local man 6 months later.He died from natural causes. I really wished i went & searched. Lake Cooloongup i had a bad feeling when driving to Madora bay many years ago. But i don`t think this is linked to Claremont.I have searched there, but it is quite rugged with the lake bushes near there. Andrew

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Dr,******

Thu 07 Dec 06 (10:08pm)[/FONT]

John of u.k. Champion Lakes is in Westfield Suburb near the suburb of Gosnells in the south/east area of Perth. The lake in the Champion Lakes area is called Wright Lake. If u want i can do a search in that area. I have 2 other lakes that i feel are strongly in need of a search, 1 is north near when Kiara was found. The other is near where Jane was found.I do believe Sarah Spiers is in water. Andrew. andyinwa@hotmail.com

It really is worth reading all five of the comments pages related to the above article.

 

[papertrail]

+ i guess the media are on controlled lockdown - the cops have had the car for two weeks and a) we didnt know it about it here b) press didn't know or told not to publish

Any way to understand what other activity occurred on those dates (police public records) etc.

For someone with knowledge - Can DNA sustain 20 years in an active environment (inside of a car)

He either slipped up or got dobbed in IMO!

I think that the police just got really lucky at the absolute correct time. There have been stories whizzing around for the last 3 or 4 years about WAPOL trawling cold case files therefore it is quite possible a very observant police officer made the discovery of their lifetime. Imagine how you would feel discovering the critical connection that may eventually lead to a conviction of the alleged perpetrator.

It may not be DNA they are searching for either it could be fingerprints of victims. Could be victim hair. Clothing fibres. Skin cells. If blood or body fluids were present in the vehicle upholstery and it was cleaned by the alleged perpetrator the underlying foam cushioning may contain the absolute bonanza.

 

[haydio]

Thoughts on how the found the car? Would they have gone to Telstra asking for records? Or perhaps matched it to him via speeding fine, keeping it all in house.

 

[Frankie1972]

How did you interpret that because 5 cars aren't needed for a "chat". Do you think it's possible they thought the story was odd and that you might be the CSK?

its because we were the last to see her I guess

 

[Cleaver Greene]

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/501-520/tandi506.html

Thanks for that papertrail. I found another article on the same subject.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s...&synonyms=0&query=harman and familial and dna

 

[papertrail]

Has there been previous discussion in here on the "Dr ******" posts (2006) re the CSK and Madora Bay and Gosnells references?

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...an/comments/uk_link_in_wa_serial_murders/P25/
page 2/5 of the comments

[FONT=&amp]

It really is worth reading all five of the comments pages related to the above article.

It's not Dr XXXXXX that is the issue. The issue is who was John of UK! He came up with a couple of rather sinister things that are relevant now.

 

[papertrail]

its because we were the last to see her I guess

And Frankie when (date or approx) and how did you make your 1st report to WAPOL. Was it through Crimestoppers ?

<modsnip>

 

[papertrail]

Thanks for that papertrail. I found another article on the same subject.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s...&synonyms=0&query=harman and familial and dna

Keep in mind that WAPOL commenced using a different dna profiling system in 2014. see my earlier posts regarding the new equipment they have.

 

[Confession]

Charged, went to trial, sat there smirking, found guilty, appealed, got off on a legal technicality. one of the witnesses (evidence against another media/music colleague was about this 11 yr old boy he used to drag around everywhere calling him his girlfriend.) Very strange case or was it par for the course

Is there an old online news story about this? I don't know the accused name so I haven't been able to find anything.

 

[Aroundthecorner]

I think if BE was on the police radar for a few weeks there would have been numerous opportunities for the police tailing him to get DNA samples. Undercover cops could have gone to Little Athletics and grabbed a discarded drink bottle from the bin, for all we know. And why WOULDN'T they do this? And then the DNA sample taken when he is in custody is just further confirmation, rather than being the first time it was ever taken.


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[Greysp]

just hope and with everything crossed that all the previous owners since Telstra have not been too finicky with detailing the vehicle. with today's forensic testing procedures even the smallest grain of pollen could nail him and needless to say the tiniest tiniest speck of dna from Sarah would be the end all of end all.

goosebumps and tears ! Karl's words are ringing in my ears....WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP !

I wonder if it matched the guy who they picked up and let go. The guy with the rape kit.

Can someone elaborate on the theory of telstra guy pre arrest please.

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[Greysp]

I would suggest said BF is FOS and this same poster has kept returning time and time again with a new alias and new BS story that puts her close to the case.

Yawn.

What is BF?

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