Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #10

[papertrail]

http://www.tsogpss.co.uk.gridhosted.co.uk/auslinks.htm

Grok first mentioned the GPS coordinates listed on a UK GPS enthusiasts website, posted by a BE in Perth. May or may not be the same person currently in custody. Some other Webslueths then posted giving the coordinates as Gay st Huntingdale.
Being a fisherman, I'm sure BRE would have had a GPS.
Just like yoillsolveit posted, the first thing I noticed looking in this area is the swamp/bush just across the road.

the co-ords dont go to known linked Gay Street properties. They go to boundary of 14 / 16 Pearce Court Huntingdale. Next block south of known addresses. 250+ metres from most southern known property.

 

[The Weaver]

****** posted on every single CSK related thread online and continued his BS claims on a dozen more that had nothing to do with the CSK (EG foot fetish websites, recipe website) in his thousands of posts over the last 10 - 12 years I'm sure if you dig deep enough you will find in some form or another he has prob almost mentioned every major suburb of Perth at one point or another.

The Dr was nothing more than an attention seeking clot who sought to insert himself into every aspect of this matter. Not a single theory he came up with has borne fruit

 

[Greysp]

My concern is if they only reason they came across BE as a suspect was through familial DNA, and a court finds that police cannot lawfully use familial DNA, then everything obtained as a result of the familial DNA can be excluded. This is called "fruit of the poisoned tree". If that happens, and the only reason WAPOL have BE is because of the familial DNA link, then everything would be out, including the susquent DNA match, search of his house, vehicle etc.

If however, BE was already a suspect and the DNA link (either familial or exact) was just to confirm their suspicions, then I don't think this would be an issue because, in theory, as BE was already a suspect, WAPOL could have had a legal basis to obtain his DNA.

I think that BE's first defence will be to challenge the admissibility of the DNA match. If a court finds that the use of DNA was unlawful, then the judge had a discretion to exclude all evidence following on from the use of that DNA. The judge has a balance what is in the "interests of justice".

All my opinion.

Let's assume he was discovered by familial. The only two ppl who would be a close enough match to him is his bro and sis (assuming he hasn't got kids). The sis is ruled out based on the amelogenin (x,y).

So bro it is. That plus the evidence they gathered on him in the one yr before the arrest would have been strong enough to obtain a warrant.

All legal so far as far as I can see.

 

[petedavo.au]

I believe that WAPOL had enough evidence to arrest BE without any DNA evidence. Familial DNA is very contentious and I haven't been able to find any Australian cases where a defendant was convicted on familial DNA. If you read the articles discussing familial DNA you will see that it is a controversial area with only a couple of states in the USA that have accepted it.

In Australia, the general principle is that DNA can only be taken if there is a reasonable suspicion of offending, or if a person volunteers their DNA. This is because Australia has an expectation of privacy and that the government can only take our personal information under certain circumstances. The ability to obtain familial DNA to then link a person to certain crimes encroaches on that privacy.

If a judge finds that the DNA was not lawfully obtained, then it could be excluded, as will all evidence obtained as a result of the DNA match. In my opinion it would be very risky for WAPOL to arrest someone based on familial DNA, because it is such a controversial area. It would be disastrous for everybody if BE was arrested and charged based on unlawfully obtained evidence and he is then acquitted because the evidence is excluded.

One day familial DNA will be tested in an Australian court and a judge will make a decision about whether it is admissible. I just think that running this argument on an accused serial killer is too big a risk.

All just my opinion.

I'm not talking about the obtaining of evidence, but the alleged mishandling of evidence, Chen Centre and London references in Bret Christian's newspaper article. It's not my opinion that WAPOL did so thou, but the custody of old evidence will no doubt be questioned because of this article IMO

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[JoeDetective]

Spoke to a police source yesterday; they indicated to me that they fully believe the legal team for BRE will be using comments from this forum to assist in his defence and potentially attempt to get him a judge only trial.

Something to keep in mind sleuths as I believe there are individuals on here baiting users to make statements that can be used to suggest BRE will not get a fair trial by a jury of his peers.

It would be a travesty for this individual not to be judged by a jury of fellow Western Australians.

<modsnip>

 

[Look4Clues]

It's possible. The house he owned with his wife EE sold in 1997 and bought the Gay St house with CG in 2000. Who knows whether he had been having an affair and that was the reason his marriage to EE ended. BE, CE and SD all joined the Eagles in 1998.

 

[JoeDetective]

My partner was actually working at a Perth Ford dealership around this time, and is certain that Telecom (as they were called) had a large fleet of Econovan vehicles, and more interestingly they also had a large fleet of XF Falcon Panelvans, which were used by their technicians. These vehicles were all serviced at the dealership as part of the warranty service schedules, and usually traded once out of warranty. The XF Panelvans were in production from 1984 - 1993. The Econovans have been in production longer from about 1983 onwards. These Telecom vehicles were white with both magnetic and stick-on Telecom decals.

Were these vehicles polished on a regular basis?
Can someone confirm the process at telecom/Telstra for vehicle maintenance circa 96/97

 

[The Weaver]

It's weird that he owned his own vehicle as a work car. Was he sub contracting or did I read wrong

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Telstra Techs usually took their work cars home. A lot of those people were on call etc etc so needed continuous access to vehicle and tools. The thing with a lot of them was that the Telstra/Telecom logos on the things were often magnetic. Saved the cost of having signage removed when disposing of them. I worked for a large company in Perth who refused to have stickers put on their (extensive) fleet for the same reason. Without the signs it was just another white VS Wagon, except for the 2 way radio system that Telstra had installed in their vehicles. Gee, a white new model Commodore with a 2 way installed, and a tall, well presented man driving! Could almost pass for a cop!

 

[b4u]

For police to tap phones i assume they would use a telstra tech to access data. Could BRE of been monitoring phone calls before taking the girls? After when listening in on detectives? I would imagine he would have access to do this?

Furthermore, could the killer(s) or their possible accomplices, have been purposely disabling payphones, in order to try and make it easier to get girls to take a lift home with them?
Disabling them at the pillar, exchange, or the payphone ifself.

Reviewing the records of reported Telstra payphone faults over the years around the times and known location of the various abductions, offers of lifts by strangers, and assaults, would surely have already occurred.

This idea occurred to me after reading a 4 page well known womens website blog thread on the CSK where a poster describes how her friend was allegedly being followed by a man after her car broke down, and the 1st phone booth she came across to call for help was out of order, so she had to keep walking to find another one.

 

[Look4Clues]

It's possible. The house he owned with his wife EE sold in 1997 and bought the Gay St house with CG in 2000. Who knows whether he had been having an affair and that was the reason his marriage to EE ended. BE, CE and SD all joined the Eagles in 1998.

What if the car had a baby/toddler seat in it? The SD would have been 1-2 years old at the time

 

[papertrail]

http://www.tsogpss.co.uk.gridhosted.co.uk/auslinks.htm

Grok first mentioned the GPS coordinates listed on a UK GPS enthusiasts website, posted by a BE in Perth. May or may not be the same person currently in custody. Some other Webslueths then posted giving the coordinates as Gay st Huntingdale.
Being a fisherman, I'm sure BRE would have had a GPS.
Just like yoillsolveit posted, the first thing I noticed looking in this area is the swamp/bush just across the road.

the gps co-ords do not go to any of the known addresses in Gay St. they go a block further south to boundary of 14 / 16 Pearce Court. this is 250+ metres from most southern known address. The email address for this uk gps unit was be@agn.net (first initial of christian name and full last name). it would have to be a very strong coincidence for this not to be linked.

 

[user29]

except the recent press report suggested BRE has only been a POI for "weeks before"

 

[Denideni]

I've now had it on good authority that BRE's neighbours were contacted by WAPOL prior to his arrest to discuss certain incidents that occurred & were reported around his childhood home in Huntingdale - generally clothes going missing and peeping etc. It seems he was put forward as a suspect by multiple people for his odd behaviour.

Once police had that DNA hit from the Kimono, they had their man. As previously posted, it looks most likely he was arrested on suspicion of the 1988 attack only. I think the familial DNA link is a furphy.

i agree that the familial dna link isn't it.. The police have publicly stated that new dna tests on the kimono linked it to the csk. They reopen the case, cross checking all the men who lived nearby with the list of owners of the car they knew to be linked to JR. A name comes up, some more cross checking some enquiries and they have their suspect.

 

[b4u]

The Dr was nothing more than an attention seeking clot who sought to insert himself into every aspect of this matter. Not a single theory he came up with has borne fruit

Then how come whether you try and type the Dr XXXXX CSK related full pseudonym, there appears to be a bot (not a human mod) on this site that immediately before the post is posted, removes the key word for the pseudonym (which is not the alleged person behind the pseudonym's real name), and inserts XXXXX?

Why the need to mask (by bot) the pseudonym of an "attention seeking clot"? That does not make sense.
Particularly when the email address related to this pseudonym and other posts under the same pseudonym, is left un-botted, and is the clue to the alleged/possible identify of the real person behind Dr XXXXX.

Is this bot auto-delete and insert XXXXX, something that occurs often in this thread/site? Personally, I think its a great idea.

 

[The Weaver]

except the recent press report suggested BRE has only been a POI for "weeks before"

Its conceivable that BRE came to their attention during a review of 'previous incidents' or intel from other operations

 

[The Weaver]

Furthermore, could the killer(s) or their possible accomplices, have been purposely disabling payphones, in order to try and make it easier to get girls to take a lift home with them?
Disabling them at the pillar, exchange, or the payphone ifself.

Reviewing the records of reported Telstra payphone faults over the years around the times and known location of the various abductions, offers of lifts by strangers, and assaults, would surely have already occurred.

This idea occurred to me after reading a 4 page well known womens website blog thread on the CSK where a poster describes how her friend was allegedly being followed by a man after her car broke down, and the 1st phone booth she came across to call for help was out of order, so she had to keep walking to find another one.

Except that SS had in fact called a cab. The phone was operational

 

[JoeDetective]

how are you aware that both sides are represented on here. I take it that the use of the 'alleged' should be use everytime a reference is made to the person charged ?

Every time someone writes a post on here please assume that WAPOL and Francis Burth Chambers are reading it. This is a 'Public Forum' ,this will likely be one of the largest most expensive criminal cases in WA history, there is teams of people currently working on it.

Something people need to understand is that for lawyers(this comes from the mouth of a senior Perth Lawyer) this is not about right or wrong or even if BRE did or did not kill a fellow lawyer, this is about being paid to win a case and they will do anything and everything to win, this is a challenge for them, they do not see it as their responsibility to make moral judgement.

 

[BReVeTTe]

Familial DNA is very contentious and I haven't been able to find any Australian cases where a defendant was convicted on familial DNA. If you read the articles discussing familial DNA you will see that it is a controversial area with only a couple of states in the USA that have accepted it.
In Australia, the general principle is that DNA can only be taken if there is a reasonable suspicion of offending, or if a person volunteers their DNA. This is because Australia has an expectation of privacy and that the government can only take our personal information under certain circumstances. The ability to obtain familial DNA to then link a person to certain crimes encroaches on that privacy.
If a judge finds that the DNA was not lawfully obtained, then it could be excluded, as will all evidence obtained as a result of the DNA match. In my opinion it would be very risky for WAPOL to arrest someone based on familial DNA, because it is such a controversial area. It would be disastrous for everybody if BE was arrested and charged based on unlawfully obtained evidence and he is then acquitted because the evidence is excluded.
One day familial DNA will be tested in an Australian court and a judge will make a decision about whether it is admissible. I just think that running this argument on an accused serial killer is too big a risk.
All just my opinion.

on the topic of familial DNA, you might like to keep one eye on this SA matter as it should be an interesting outcome - been in court for a while, not guilty plea entered, so must be getting close to trial by now.
_______________
July 24, 2015
Assistant Commissioner Linda Fellows said it was believed to be the first time the “familial” DNA technology had led to criminal charges being laid in South Australia. FSSA has done an outstanding job in helping detectives achieve a breakthrough in this case. She said investigators had used DNA samples from a relative of the man to link the two assaults.
Forensic Science SA Director Chris Pearman said technological advancements in the past year had helped his team of around 40 make the breakthrough for SA, which they delivered about three weeks ago. "Over the last 12 months we’ve developed some sophisticated algorithms which we’ve used, developed in our laboratory in conjunction with the forensic science laboratory in Auckland.
This software is called Starmix ... one of the spin-offs is it gives us greater searching capabilities. Sometimes we can get a close match so it’s not an exact match but it’s a close match and that suggests that the person on the database is related to the person who left the DNA at the crime scene. Relationships such as parent child or siblings have a much greater chance of having similar DNA profiles than unrelated people. This type of DNA searching is complex and painstaking and as such it has taken a great deal of time."
_______________
related articles
(adelaide now/ the advertiser - paywall after 2 visits)
_______________
>>>Alleged North Adelaide rapist revealed as grandfather
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...s/news-story/0b34fc196124499d8bd8cd2cf22e7687
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>>> DNA breakthrough: North Adelaide rape suspect arrested
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...d/news-story/3543c01826f8670072c2346100e9a37f

[emoji887]

 

[PerthSleuth86]

New to this. Lets just hope he has messaged sleuth people to have a chat about where SS is. I hope police go thru his PC to see where he has blogged. Is he Claremont Ghost. Might be.Fingers crossed & appreciation to the poster who may be able to bring up his You Tube posts again.

 

[JoeDetective]

how are you aware that both sides are represented on here. I take it that the use of the 'alleged' should be use everytime a reference is made to the person charged ?

Nobody is, without IP logs and ISP court orders nobody is, even then I suspect VPNs may be in use. TOR browser is very easy to use.

I am told by a good source to assume they are with everything written.

People making generalisations or rash comments does not help justice (whatever that is in this case) being served.