Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[GreenE]

Whilst time will tell about MM....IMO his sole aim for approaching JR was to lure her into thebdarkness from which he came and then returned to. This theory was discussed at length over the last few days.

I asked the question with no reply. Could someone tell me if Conti Hotel staff could exit from rear through a staff door to their cars?

I can't totally rule out in my mind that MM could be BRE because there's clear resemblance and he's an unidentified POI. It's just it seems inconceivable that he'd approach her in front of so many people before doing the deed. I'm also pretty sure the other possible unconfirmed sightings of JR Around the local vicinity.
I think he'd had such success with SS away from the hot zone near the Conti, it's hard to see him changing for JR.

 

[JoeDetective]

Seems the consensus is BRE would be voted least likely to be a serial killer.
I watched news when it first broke and this blond guy (friend of BRE) was genuinely dumbfounded that BRE could be CSK. BRE definitely has a mask he wears because no one has come forward with a story about violent rages or dubious stories etc. Not yet anyway.

He is still 100% innocent, but I would suspect people with not so good stories about him, if they exist may 1. not want to speak to media, 2. probably have been told by cops not to speak to media, 3. may be revealed at trial.

 

[ShellyGale]

Agree, seems the investigation had one *advertiser censored* up after another. Even with CCTV at the pub & cameras installed after Jane disappeared to monitor traffic specifically should another girl go missing, Ciara Glennon disappeared and they had nothing Very strange

If this is the quality of the CCTV and your back is to it then hell yes.
Then when this is the only guy you can't ID on the video, I mean come on..... the only person you can't ID is the person that talks to the victim, sorry massive *advertiser censored* up by the police on this one.

 

[meticulously]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322194

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Off topic / ignore freely . To petedavo , do you think this missing person was using WS ? Hes not posting on the nannup thread though is he , Nobody is .
Good on you for bringing attention to that mystery.
I hope to sleuth that thread more .

.

 

[GreenE]

I think it could be and if it was potentially a while after the end of the relationship. Perhaps a loan taken out against the property to pay one party out after a settlement agreement has been reached. If it was for this reason it could be well and truly after the marriage actually ended. Many people take years to reach an agreement on settlement. This means the relationship might have been over by the time the KK rape occurred.

If the caveat was for the reason above it raises some interesting questions in my mind. The following is assuming it was...

If he took out a loan to settle the property in 95 instead of selling and splitting the proceeds clearly he wanted to stay there. Yet within 2 years he had sold it and moved back with the parents. Why? It wasn't a horribly expensive property and we know he was on decent money. So financial reasons are a possibility but not an obvious reason.

Knowing what happened in that 2 year period the mind boggles as to the other possible reasons. Did he want to disassociate himself from the property? Did he need to ensure he was living with someone to stop some kind of unhinged behaviour?

We know the sale of the property went through a day or two after CG was found. A standard six week settlement period meant he was aware before CG that his time there was limited. He would have known the settlement date. Maybe he knew this was his last hurrah before moving back home. That close to settlement I'd be stunned if he took CG back to the house. There'd be upcoming sales inspections and handover meetings etc. Far too risky.

Hmm, this makes me wonder if some of his tendencies might've come out during the relationship. Maybe his temptation got the better of him, the wife didn't want a bar of it and he let loose on KK to fulfil his urges?

 

[Mazfrank]

Sorry a bit of a long one
I just want to add something about the theory he knew the victims.
Picture it> Sorry you have to pretend you're a sick minded killer for a tick>

You're a rapist, having recently blitzed a girl you don't know in a park, taken her in your work van to a cemetery and raped her. You're happy you got away with but are afraid you will get caught if you do it the same way again. Next time you'll be more careful cos you know the victim can give something away. You're nervous but think you can come up with a better plan.

[start murderous period]

You've already killed SS in some way (for now we'll focus on JR).

So this next time you're going to try to catch up with a girl you know ~~~because that is the best way to avoid police questioning when committing a rape or worse (sarcastic tone)~~~. You're going to go late at night, somehow arrange for her to meet at a busyish club/bar, where lots of people can see you. You have to convince her to ditch her friends, get in your car (by her own choice preferably), then while she's a passenger somehow restrain, rape her and murder her. All the while avoiding all possibilities that anyone should recognise you or that she doesn't choose to go with you.

Not to mention, if you'd arranged the meet-up beforehand (before mobiles), you would want to be sure it was totally secret. You definitely would want to be certain she hasn't told a friend and also it'd be a shame if she doesn't show.

I could add many more reasons this scenario seems highly unlikely but for now I'll finish by pointing out, KK was a blitz from a park away from the main strip. It worked but the girl lived to tell the tale, which would've made him nervous. I'm with the idea either he asked them to get in or, IMO more likely, blitzed them when no one could see. MM may have just been an overseas student or something who has never heard about the footage. Or he could've just cracked a funny joke as he walked towards her while asking for a smoke. I just don't see the friendship attack as fitting into the logical progression of the rapes & murders. I hold strongly that on the nights of the murders, if he were to see someone he knew, it'd set his nerves into overdrive and he'd have avoided them like the plague!

Who said KK was a blitz? Is this confirmed?


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[lampformypath]

I agree, I have followed that case because it's heartbreaking, close to home and also JR lost her life on my daughters 5th birthday. At the time I was married to a man who was an RAC man, they were also heavily under suspicion at one point. It upset me so badly I use to ask him questions to see if he was involved. I was depressed at losing my parents earlier in the year and not thinking straight. But every year from my daughters birthday, I think.... all the days she's got to enjoy life are equal to all the years JR didn't have... and should have... so many what ifs....I often think of the girls families... one day for the public hearing or being reminded of this case can't be anywhere near as torturous as it has been for the families and friends.


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I'm hearing you Mazfrank, I have a daughter and son who were around the same ages as the girls taken, now married with beautiful kids. My daughter is tall and slim and has lovely green/blue eyes and did have blonde/brownish hair at the time the girls went missing. I used to freak out when she went with her mates, so carefree and trusting, just wanting to have a great night out and meet a nice guy. Just like the Claremont girls How blessed are we that our daughters (and our son) are with us. Watching our daughter interacting at Christmas with her two young daughters I was thinking what a sad Christmas it would have been for the Claremont girls family, and facing all this trial stuff, all the horrible rumours again, and poor SS' s parents going into another year of not knowing. And I know what you mean about your ex and the worry that could he be involved? Everyone knew someone that had been interviewed by WAPOL, we had a strange guy in an office where I worked once who WAPOL came out and raided his house, he was smoking a bong at the time but that didn't bother them, they'd been tipped off that he was acting weird, and (well yes, he IS weird, and your point is?) coming in at all hours (probably out doing deals for more weed!) he thought it was kind of cool that he'd been "selected" and told everyone about it that he met. (I told you he was strange, but kind of innocent, well I hope so!) As I've heard a lot of cops say, and I have one in the family, hug your kids, wives/partners/loved ones a bit tighter tonight and be grateful you have them. Now let's all try extra hard to try and find dear Sarah, and the other "forgotten" women!

 

[CP345]

Who said KK was a blitz? Is this confirmed?


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Yes it is confirmed.

 

[Mazfrank]

I lived that era in Perth, I was scared and mindful... every time a woman went missing, my heart sank. Somebody pleases stop this bleeding

 

[rhythymz]

She was on the title.

Is there any indication of the API Auscomm Credit Society loan sum?

 

[lampformypath]

Just paused to listed to a song of my past... a bit before my time, but older sisters have some explaining to do https://youtu.be/gyo_1zyj5eQ nothing to do with the case, just a blast from the past... five minutes to reflect


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Ah they don't write songs like that anymore where you can actually hear lyrics, and they don't make hair like that anymore (thank the Lord!) Bopping along here, sing it to me Janis..fftobed:I'm off to bed now, Nightie, night sleep tight all!

 

[meticulously]

Who said KK was a blitz? Is this confirmed?


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Taken by Blitz attack from rowe park.

news clip sourced by #papertrail

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[Mazfrank]

Taken by Blitz attack from rowe park.

news clip sourced by #papertrail

.

So he changed his MO and Perth laps it up like they think they know a serial killer. I will say, I'm not a serial killer and I don't know how they think or react - but if the wolves are at your door, would you not change your tact? Just imagine LW was a suspect, so change your pattern.... and now 20 years later.... many people missing? I'm not a head case sick individual, but maybe he changed is tact to accommodate his reality?


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[BReVeTTe]

...I asked the question with no reply. Could someone tell me if Conti Hotel staff could exit from rear through a staff door to their cars?

I got this much from the questions I asked;
I gather the answer is 'yes'.
Hope that's of some assistance.

There was and still is only one entry / exit for the public.
It is the one covered by the security vision released.

If you walk towards the back of the ground floor there is a non descript door on the back wall, not too far from where the toilets are.
This door leads to a small storage area and an external staircase.
The storage area leads out to a well hidden car park (from the street anyway) which is behind the bottle shop which faces grugeri street.
This wasn't a public carpark and to be honest I doubt that many people knew about it except staff.
There is only room for a few cars.

There wasn't a public carpark as such but what served as parking for the train during the day was where everyone parked at night.
It was along the other side of grugeri street and was like a compacted gravel from memory.
Punters parked nose or tail in towords the railway line fence.

...here's a layout of the Conti, including exits, that Bart posted a long time ago.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12179799#post12179799

[emoji887]

 

[ShellyGale]

Taken by Blitz attack from rowe park.

news clip sourced by #papertrail

.

He must have known how to get around that area really well, it's not so easy driving around with some one way streets and I didnt realise the first rape victim who survived had also been at Club Bayview. Took her from a park to move her to the cemetary only 1 km or so up the road. That's confident for a first timer imo.

 

[Sutton]

...I asked the question with no reply. Could someone tell me if Conti Hotel staff could exit from rear through a staff door to their cars?

Snipped.

I don't see how anyone could definitively know that unless they worked there or remember employees exiting through rear doors.

I linked to a layout of the Conti, twice, in the last few days. Which rear doors are you referring to?

 

[Mazfrank]

Snipped.

I don't see how anyone could definitively know that unless they worked there or remember employees exiting through rear doors.

I linked to a layout of the Conti, twice, in the last few days. Which rear doors are you referring to?

Ok, if you all want to know, yes of course there was a back enterance to the conti. Bands loaded in through there.. it was a tradesman entrance. The chef and staff went out the back to smoke and complain....all bar staff had access to a back entrance.... it's what they did. Wasn't sinister, just an easy outlet for chefs and staff to cool off.



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[Mazfrank]

God they parked out there if they were lucky to get a spot


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[Mazfrank]

Did anyone check who was coming in the back door... no... if you had access you probably needed it


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[Sutton]

Ok, if you all want to know, yes of course there was a back enterance to the conti. Bands loaded in through there.. it was a tradesman entrance. The chef and staff went out the back to smoke and complain....all bar staff had access to a back entrance.... it's what they did. Wasn't sinister, just an easy outlet for chefs and staff to cool off.



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Thanks for coming off that secret information. Where was it on the drawing? (I mean, it's not on the drawing, but where should it be in there?) And can you tell us how you know (you worked there, your gf worked there, etc.)?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12179799#post12179799