Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[pauldking]

They are very interested in the ceilings ...

I wonder if Madora Bay property had a bathtub?


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[Moustachio]

Probably not but something hidden lets say in the ceiling, which mightn't look strange to the new occupier (if they even looked up there) but could be connected to a crime. Could be rope, elect wire/cord, dirty rags/pillowcases, old computer parts etc.

They will be trying to match fibres of some sort with one or both the bodies, for mine ...

 

[Spinnaker]

I have been reading through some old posts and found one from a Phantomm below where he mentions that the mid point of JC & CG is the Boulevard and West Coast Highway in City Beach near some vacant land. This has brought back a memory - about 4 years ago I was walking my dog at City Beach/Floreat near Boulevard at the vacant land mentioned. It was not summer and fairly windy, so very deserted. During my walk I spotted from a quite distance a man in the dunes watching me and positioning himself at the exit where I would need to walk to get to my car. I was really scared and took another exit running then along gravel (in bare feet) to my car from another direction. All my instincts were on alert, I then had to drive past his car and it was a white work car - the type a Tradie would use. I may even have driven past him and was terrified. Pretty sure I reported it to police at the time as was so shaken by the experience and felt I had avoided a bad situation.

Originally Posted by phantomm
For those who are asking where the exact centre of the line between Jane and Ciara is. It is the corner of West Coast Highway and The Boulevard in City Beach. Travelling 39.18 kms east at 90 degrees to the line finishes on Mundaring Rd 30 metres North of McCallum Rd. In fact it's the corner of a rural property, with state forest nearby. There is even a pile of dirt there just meters from the road that could be a shallow grave. The grid is 50 J 422572E 6467425 S.
The position fulfills all the criteria for a dumping site. Quiet rd, isolated, vacant bush near the road and a place to hide the body. If you look, you will see there is a group of trees similar to the group of Blackboys where Ciara was found and also similar to the group of PaperBarks where Jane was found. Another point worth mentioning is that on the corner of The Boulevard and West Coast, there is a very large vacant land area.

 

[CP345]

Gone a bit quiet on here tonight. My friends Fiddlesticks and Super Spade where are you? Must be on sick leave today like most other Australians. Missing you guys. xx

 

[Eaglette]

<modsnip> IMHO with BRE's job in those days (no tracking of work vehicles etc.) he could have rendered any female incapacitated by locking her in the back of a work station wagon. Covered her in a blanket. Could have even attached one of those removable "dog wire/separators" that prevent dogs from jumping into the back seats from the boot area of the vehicle. One would be trapped - until BRE decided to open the back. There were no "booze buses" back in those days - no random police stops. You would not have been stopped by the cops unless you were driving erratically/speeding etc. I drove a lot at night - through Huntingdale (back roads) Gosnells and it was awfully dark. Nobody on the roads at all. I could drive the back way and NEVER see another cars headlights. You could hide a body within 20mins driving of Huntingdale and be back home ready for work the next morning.

 

[Str8talkr]

There were no "booze buses" back in those days - no random police stops. You would not have been stopped by the cops unless you were driving erratically/speeding etc. I drove a lot at night - through Huntingdale (back roads) Gosnells and it was awfully dark. Nobody on the roads at all. I could drive the back way and NEVER see another cars headlights. You could hide a body within 20mins driving of Huntingdale and be back home ready for work the next morning.

No booze buses or RBTs? I beg to differ. I went to Curtin Uni between 92-95 and there were most definitely RBTs on my way home past Gosnells through to Kelmscott.

 

[CP345]

No booze buses or RBTs? I beg to differ. I went to Curtin Uni between 92-95 and there were most definitely RBTs on my way home past Gosnells through to Kelmscott.

Yep I'll back that up. For some of that time I lived well out of the city. After a night out with mates in one of the entertainment districts I'd drive home. I was pretty good, usually I'd only have a few beers all night and drop mates off so they didn't have to pay for a cab. There was plenty of times I got pulled over for an RBT. I remember it well because even though you knew you hadn't had much to drink you'd still crap yourself just in case you blew over.

 

[Wyke]

No booze buses or RBTs? I beg to differ. I went to Curtin Uni between 92-95 and there were most definitely RBTs on my way home past Gosnells through to Kelmscott.

Indeed - I remember the bun-fight just before it's introduction.

Page 62:

1988 Random breath testing (RBT) introduced.

https://rsc.wa.gov.au/RSC/media/Doc...h statistics/annual-crash-statistics-2014.pdf

 

[7SJ707]

IMO.... RE the 1988 disappearance of Julie Cutler from the vicinity of the Parmelia Hilton Hotel Perth in mid 1988, ...in true WAPOL fashion there has been a dearth of information released to the public about this case .
The fact that the missing girls car was driven into the sea, thereby destroying vital forensic evidence should have set the alarm bells ringing that a player of consequence was on the loose in Western Australia.
The significance of this case was not realised at the time, nor was enough publicity given to the fact that the innocent young woman may have intended to go clubbing after finishing work.
Informal recipicoral arrangements were common amongst Hotel and Club Staff in Perth at the time .whereby if employees from one venue finished work and wished to visit a neighbouring Club they would be granted free entry and perhaps a round of drinks with the expectation that the " favour" would be returned vis a vis when circumstances were reversed.
It is also interesting to note the proximity to the Hilton of a longstanding Perth Building at 639 Wellington Street.

 

[CP345]

IMO.... RE the 1988 disappearance of Julie Cutler from the vicinity of the Parmelia Hilton Hotel Perth in mid 1988, ...in true WAPOL fashion there has been a dearth of information released to the public about this case .
The fact that the missing girls car was driven into the sea, thereby destroying vital forensic evidence should have set the alarm bells ringing that a player of consequence was on the loose in Western Australia.
The significance of this case was not realised at the time, nor was enough publicity given to the fact that the innocent young woman may have intended to go clubbing after finishing work.
Informal recipicoral arrangements were common amongst Hotel and Club Staff in Perth at the time .whereby if employees from one venue finished work and wished to visit a neighbouring Club they would be granted free entry and perhaps a round of drinks with the expectation that the " favour" would be returned vis a vis when circumstances were reversed.
It is also interesting to note the proximity to the Hilton of a longstanding Perth Building at 639 Wellington Street.

Are you trying to say that you think her killer is the CSK? What point are you actually trying to make here?

 

[Spinnaker]

IMO.... RE the 1988 disappearance of Julie Cutler from the vicinity of the Parmelia Hilton Hotel Perth in mid 1988, ...in true WAPOL fashion there has been a dearth of information released to the public about this case .
The fact that the missing girls car was driven into the sea, thereby destroying vital forensic evidence should have set the alarm bells ringing that a player of consequence was on the loose in Western Australia.
The significance of this case was not realised at the time, nor was enough publicity given to the fact that the innocent young woman may have intended to go clubbing after finishing work.
Informal recipicoral arrangements were common amongst Hotel and Club Staff in Perth at the time .whereby if employees from one venue finished work and wished to visit a neighbouring Club they would be granted free entry and perhaps a round of drinks with the expectation that the " favour" would be returned vis a vis when circumstances were reversed.
It is also interesting to note the proximity to the Hilton of a longstanding Perth Building at 639 Wellington Street.

Agree there was reciprocal arrangements - I worked at Ansett International in 86 and often went to the Hilton after work. I also had friends who worked at other hotels who went to the Sheraton after work - with free entry and often reduced drinks.



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[Eaglette]

I stand corrected - there may have been 1 or 2 booze buses for the whole of Perth - but, in general - there were not a lot of police about in the back of "whoop whoop" - off Albany Highway. As soon as you left a major road - you were pretty much secretive driving the back roads. I'd never seen a Booze Bus on Warton Road - Spencer Road - Amhurst Road - Souther River Road - Nicholson Road - the "back roads" until the late late 90's. Kelvin Road up to Lesmurdie was black and deserted late at night !

 

[TheSecondLaw]

When it's taken into account that SS was last seen at a bit past 2:00am on a January night, that does not leave a whole lot of night time remaining. Sunrise yesterday (27/1) was at 5:37am, not including the period of twilight beforehand. If indeed keeping unnoticed in the dark was a high priority, that gives maybe 2.5 to 3 hours of darkness at the most. IMO I doubt that this would place SS much further away than JR & CG, and even less likely that there was a burial involved. Unless perhaps such pre-planning was taken to an extent that a site had been pre dug. I'm sure this has been speculated many times before right from the early days of the investigation, but worth a re-consideration.

Side note: Not that this would necessarily assist with sleuthing the case anyway, but I'm assuming that the lack of an available Landgate aerial survey between 1995 and 2000 implies simply that no survey was made at all in that whole time?

 

[Spinnaker]

BE has changed his FB settings so that you can no longer see his friends (1 friend SD)


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[CP345]

When it's taken into account that SS was last seen at a bit past 2:00am on a January night, that does not leave a whole lot of night time remaining. Sunrise yesterday (27/1) was at 5:37am, not including the period of twilight beforehand. If indeed keeping unnoticed in the dark was a high priority, that gives maybe 2.5 to 3 hours of darkness at the most. IMO I doubt that this would place SS much further away than JR & CG, and even less likely that there was a burial involved. Unless perhaps such pre-planning was taken to an extent that a site had been pre dug. I'm sure this has been speculated many times before right from the early days of the investigation, but worth a re-consideration.

Side note: Not that this would necessarily assist with sleuthing the case anyway, but I'm assuming that the lack of an available Landgate aerial survey between 1995 and 2000 implies simply that no survey was made at all in that whole time?

No idea how long he would have spent with the victims but I guess there is the unlikely possibility that he disposed of her later, say the next night. I say unlikely because if this was his first kill which I personally believe it was he'd want to get rid of a body ASAP. In the unlikely event he did dispose of her later he would have had more time for both planning and disposal which might explain why she has never been found. JMO.

 

[Eaglette]

so SD probably changed this for BRE ? Do people on remand get access to the Internet and their Facebook ?

BE has changed his FB settings so that you can no longer see his friends (1 friend SD)


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[MrsNathanDrake]

so SD probably changed this for BRE ? Do people on remand get access to the Internet and their Facebook ?

No, they are treated basically the same as the rest of the prison population. He would have had to give SD his username and password. Or is it possible she removed herself as a friend after that silly article and not being able to see any of his friends is because of him having no froends? If someone was editing his account I would have thought they would have made it a private account altogether, not just removed the friends list when there was only one friend and it has already been published in MsM

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

I have been reading through some old posts and found one from a Phantomm below where he mentions that the mid point of JC & CG is the Boulevard and West Coast Highway in City Beach near some vacant land. This has brought back a memory - about 4 years ago I was walking my dog at City Beach/Floreat near Boulevard at the vacant land mentioned. It was not summer and fairly windy, so very deserted. During my walk I spotted from a quite distance a man in the dunes watching me and positioning himself at the exit where I would need to walk to get to my car. I was really scared and took another exit running then along gravel (in bare feet) to my car from another direction. All my instincts were on alert, I then had to drive past his car and it was a white work car - the type a Tradie would use. I may even have driven past him and was terrified. Pretty sure I reported it to police at the time as was so shaken by the experience and felt I had avoided a bad situation.

I think you might have come across one of these guys http://topix.com/forum/au/perth (*very* NSFW, its a site for anonymous casuall hook-ups in public places). It was posted to a parenting FB page recently because someone discovered people were hooking up en masse in the mens toilets at Joondalup shops and she was warning other parents so they could keep an eye on theor local places. It seems hooking up in the sand dunes, especially during supposed work breaks, is very popular.

Not doubting your gut instincts but its possible he thought you were one of the anonymous internet randoms he had promised to make himself available to. Or that you were the one who had done the promising :/

 

[Spinnaker]

I think you might have come across one of these guys http://topix.com/forum/au/perth (*very* NSFW, its a site for anonymous casuall hook-ups in public places). It was posted to a parenting FB page recently because someone discovered people were hooking up en masse in the mens toilets at Joondalup shops and she was warning other parents so they could keep an eye on theor local places. It seems hooking up in the sand dunes, especially during supposed work breaks, is very popular.

Not doubting your gut instincts but its possible he thought you were one of the anonymous internet randoms he had promised to make himself available to. Or that you were the one who had done the promising :/

Nothing from my end - Just thought I would share given the situation, location and the fact that the car looked like it could have been a Telstra car - white industrial work ute, with cable type equipment in back - as I said it was reported to police at the time.

And yes there is always that possibility to consider. Thanks.





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[Spooks-R-Us]

Where does everyone think the CSK took his victims in between abduction and dumping?
What kind of deserted building or property makes a good rape/kill site??
If the poor victims were still alive when they were allegedly mutilated, then the blood splatter pattern would be much larger in wider due to fact Heart would still be pumping and squirting out blood through cut arteries. This kind of wounding is messy and requires space where all traces of blood could easily be cleaned away.
If the CSK say strangled the poor victims before mutilating there bodies, then blood splatter is not such an issue.
Also limiting noise would be an issue if victims could still scream out aloud. I'm guessing somewhere either remote or an industrial area that was not operating on weekends and public holidays.
I'm thinking places like:
- abattoirs
- factories
- abandoned and/or remote farm houses/buildings or houses/sheds on smaller hobby type farms that are usually closer to the city.
- old timber mills
- limestone, granite, or gravel quarries
- lonely bush tracks
- ice works
- other cemeteries besides KK
- fishing shacks
- fisheries processing plants
- random sea container either in Freo wharf area or some other place that's empty on weekends.
- chemical processing plant with a big vat of HCl acid or some other toxic liquid that could dissolve a body after CSK had finished his business.
- a (cray fish) boat
- warehouse




Or maybe the back of the station wagon sufficed for the rape/kill scene???