Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[Spinnaker]

I am going to use a simple online editable wiki app to compile the data that has been referenced throughout these threads and others for reference purposes when using these threads, this is not in any way an attempt to undermine Web Sleuths just an attempt to make things easier for everyone, as the same questions are being asked and answered repeatedly.
I will probably do this in 3 weeks time, it will require a significant amount of trawling, map construction, etc but I hope it will make things significantly easier for everyone.
Hopefully others will want to contribute some time.

There is a very good timeline produced by GROK (link below) which may assist:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...1997-Perth-Western-Australia-9-*ARREST/page75

 

[7SJ707]

As the CSK whosever he might be, cruises the streets of Claremont after midnight he is confident that his "cover story" is so good it will withstand scrutiny from anyone questioning him. He "fits right in " amongst the hustle and bustle of the late night scene.
He is sober, clean cut and presentable , driving a near new station wagon with an operable and transmitting two way radio fitted.
He knows that the vast majority of people out on the street waiting for taxis will accept a lift from him.
However. like a poker player, he has to find the "right spot" before he goes "all in".
Groups of people , girls in company of a friends or boyfriends, these are no good . He is seeking an attractive, slim build young girl who is alone and not being observed closely by any people who might remember the brief interaction of him stopping and offering a lift.
So he cruises, and he watches, and he waits.
In the past ,during the Huntingdale assault when the victim fought back and raised the alarm, and during the Karrakatta rape/attempted murder (likely unexpectedly interrupted) he has learnt the value of" pulling up stumps" and fleeing if things don't go according to plan.
It is the same with this hunt. if he finds a candidate and circumstances change or it doesn't feel right then he's off...out of there immediately. Big deal ,-who is going to remember the next morning anyway ?.-Another interesting aspect of this guys M.O. ,.. he has made it his business to be around people who have been drinking ...victims judgement impaired,witnesses unlikely to remember past the next days hangover.....
In regards to the" Blitz" theory of the CSK abductions based on the KK rape/attempted murder and another incident where the victim was very drunk....people who deal with inebriated people constantly , know the futility of spending time trying to reason or argue ,....far simpler just to grab them by the scruff of the neck and turf them out of the premises no questions asked, no answers given...the classic" bums rush".
So if the CSK comes across someone very drunk, and the coast is clear, he is not wasting time with elaborate ruses,,,,,so yes a mixture of" blitz "and deception tactics most likely...

All JMO.

 

[BReVeTTe]

Some photos of him from the mid 90s might certainly trigger some memories. If they exist I find it hard to believe we haven't seen them already for exactly that reason. If police want the further info they've requested and they had such a photo I'm sure we'd have seen it somehow. While I realise that the 90s weren't a time with today's curse of people pouting into their own phones and posting the results on Facebook as if anyone gives a toss, there were still enough people taking photos at birthdays and weddings etc. If there's a complete lack of photos from this period it'd be unusual. A deliberate attempt to avoid them for some reason you'd think. If that reason is related the criminal activity then there's either witnesses who've seen something he's worried about or he's ultra cautious or paranoid.

i dare say the police already have older photos of the accused in their possession, but as he is yet innocent until proven, it's not really hard to believe the public aren't made privy to such pics.

SWIK was once asked, by police, for existing older photos of a POI to them ... as a consequence of the photos provided, plus other existing evidence, the POI was identified as perpetrator of some historical offending, and although later charged, the photos were never made public.

imo, if other people were to come forward with credible reports alluding to the accused's likely involvement (in matters either inside or outside of standing charges) they are the only ones who might be shown a random assortment of photos from which to make a possible ID.


[emoji887]

 

[BReVeTTe]

someone please report this comment for removal ...TiA

 

[7SJ707]

IN January 28 2016 an interesting article appeared in the West Australian Newspaper over the Australia Day weekend, entitled "Forensic Science helps Police close in on killer ".
The article mentions extra resources being swung over to the Macro investigation ,and advancements in famial DNA, before ending with the ominous warning "police may be reluctant to say it, but the net does appear to be closing around the Claremont Serial Killer.
It seems likely WAPOL had BRE firmly in their sights at this time, and that the West Australian was working in with police re the timing, and content of this milestone article.
I think this close level of co- operation has continued between WAPOL and the States only newspaper to the extent that the newspaper has agreed to not publish in depth background research on BREs history, part time jobs, and old photographs detailing his appearance in the 90s. until given the go ahead.
The payoff for the newspaper in future will no doubt be an " exclusive " story regarding hitherto unknown aspects of the case .

 

[lampformypath]

As the CSK whosever he might be, cruises the streets of Claremont after midnight he is confident that his "cover story" is so good it will withstand scrutiny from anyone questioning him. He "fits right in " amongst the hustle and bustle of the late night scene.
He is sober, clean cut and presentable , driving a near new station wagon with an operable and transmitting two way radio fitted.
He knows that the vast majority of people out on the street waiting for taxis will accept a lift from him.
However. like a poker player, he has to find the "right spot" before he goes "all in".
Groups of people , girls in company of a friends or boyfriends, these are no good . He is seeking an attractive, slim build young girl who is alone and not being observed closely by any people who might remember the brief interaction of him stopping and offering a lift.
So he cruises, and he watches, and he waits.
In the past ,during the Huntingdale assault when the victim fought back and raised the alarm, and during the Karrakatta rape/attempted murder (likely unexpectedly interrupted) he has learnt the value of" pulling up stumps" and fleeing if things don't go according to plan.
It is the same with this hunt. if he finds a candidate and circumstances change or it doesn't feel right then he's off...out of there immediately. Big deal ,-who is going to remember the next morning anyway ?.-Another interesting aspect of this guys M.O. ,.. he has made it his business to be around people who have been drinking ...victims judgement impaired,witnesses unlikely to remember past the next days hangover.....
In regards to the" Blitz" theory of the CSK abductions based on the KK rape/attempted murder and another incident where the victim was very drunk....people who deal with inebriated people constantly , know the futility of spending time trying to reason or argue ,....far simpler just to grab them by the scruff of the neck and turf them out of the premises no questions asked, no answers given...the classic" bums rush".
So if the CSK comes across someone very drunk, and the coast is clear, he is not wasting time with elaborate ruses,,,,,so yes a mixture of" blitz "and deception tactics most likely...

All JMO.

:cheers: Brilliantly written post. I could "see" this all happening, frighteningly enough. I totally agree, different methods for different girls. Picking off the vulnerable, the more drunk the better/easier and most likely blitzed. Reading this I feel the creepiness of this man, whomever he turns out to be. The cruising, the stalking, the "hunter" and these poor women (and I think others) were just his prey, discarded with no regard for who they were, their traumatised families, the community he prowled. I think the laying in wait and planning aspect cannot be under-estimated with the CSK, like you say, he was quite willing to spend many nights going home without a "catch" like some ghoulish fisherman. And to think there were so many others like Birnies operating around the same time, and no doubt somebody out there still taking vulnerable women/men. It's all so hideous and cruel. Selfish desires and fantasies acted out. I don't envy WAPOL having to deal with these monsters, how would you sleep after interviewing one of these types? God bless our women and men of WAPOL!

 

[SN76]

Any apps / programs where anyone with knowledge of these programs be able to manipulate a current-ish image of BRE and take 20 years off him....? Manipulate a photo...then we may get some kind of clue what his possible appearance back in the early to mid 90's?

 

[CP345]

IN January 28 2016 an interesting article appeared in the West Australian Newspaper over the Australia Day weekend, entitled "Forensic Science helps Police close in on killer ".
The article mentions extra resources being swung over to the Macro investigation ,and advancements in famial DNA, before ending with the ominous warning "police may be reluctant to say it, but the net does appear to be closing around the Claremont Serial Killer.
It seems likely WAPOL had BRE firmly in their sights at this time, and that the West Australian was working in with police re the timing, and content of this milestone article.
I think this close level of co- operation has continued between WAPOL and the States only newspaper to the extent that the newspaper has agreed to not publish in depth background research on BREs history, part time jobs, and old photographs detailing his appearance in the 90s. until given the go ahead.
The payoff for the newspaper in future will no doubt be an " exclusive " story regarding hitherto unknown aspects of the case .

A couple of decent posts today emperor. Got to ask though, what's it all got to do with Burns Beach?

 

[Nugget77]

A couple of decent posts today emperor. Got to ask though, what's it all got to do with Burns Beach?

Why do you call him/her 'Emperor'?

 

[CP345]

Why do you call him/her 'Emperor'?

He asked to be referred to as the red emperor a few days back. He said it was in honour of a botched police investigation. Not sure if he meant the CSK or Julie Cutler case.

 

[Owlie]

Thanks Owlie for clarifying - I did not think that she attended, interesting connection though with the other girls! Quite a coincidence.

Interesting but not necessarily surprising as Iona is the only catholic girls high school in the western suburbs of Perth, so if you are a girl from a Catholic family and want to go to school in the western suburbs it's your only choice. There's also Mercedes in the city or Santa Maria in Attadale but why travel further afield when you can just go to a very prestigious school in Mosman Park. And for country girl Sarah Spiers it's the only girls only Catholic boarding school in Perth.
Not having a crack at you but sometimes the simplest explanation is the best explanation.... And sometimes not! [emoji41]
(Source: Catholic Education Office WA
http://internet.ceo.wa.edu.au/Pages/default.aspx)


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[Spinnaker]

Interesting but not necessarily surprising as Iona is the only catholic girls high school in the western suburbs of Perth, so if you are a girl from a Catholic family and want to go to school in the western suburbs it's your only choice. There's also Mercedes in the city or Santa Maria in Attadale but why travel further afield when you can just go to a very prestigious school in Mosman Park. And for country girl Sarah Spiers it's the only girls only Catholic boarding school in Perth.
Not having a crack at you but sometimes the simplest explanation is the best explanation.... And sometimes not! [emoji41]
(Source: Catholic Education Office WA
http://internet.ceo.wa.edu.au/Pages/default.aspx)


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I would imagine that there are quite a few Catholic girls in the western suburbs who don't go to Iona and instead go to local schools - there still appears to be a theme of some sort.

 

[RETPI]

He asked to be referred to as the red emperor a few days back. He said it was in honour of a botched police investigation. Not sure if he meant the CSK or Julie Cutler case.

Operation Red Emperor was an organised crime investigation that had many sub operational names. One of the principal targets was alleged to be John KIZON.

 

[7SJ707]

Operation Red Emperor was an organised crime investigation that had many sub operational names. One of the principal targets was alleged to be John KIZON.

Smarter than the average bear RETPI.......i will have to watch out for you....

 

[Spinnaker]

IN January 28 2016 an interesting article appeared in the West Australian Newspaper over the Australia Day weekend, entitled "Forensic Science helps Police close in on killer ".
The article mentions extra resources being swung over to the Macro investigation ,and advancements in famial DNA, before ending with the ominous warning "police may be reluctant to say it, but the net does appear to be closing around the Claremont Serial Killer.
It seems likely WAPOL had BRE firmly in their sights at this time, and that the West Australian was working in with police re the timing, and content of this milestone article.
I think this close level of co- operation has continued between WAPOL and the States only newspaper to the extent that the newspaper has agreed to not publish in depth background research on BREs history, part time jobs, and old photographs detailing his appearance in the 90s. until given the go ahead.
The payoff for the newspaper in future will no doubt be an " exclusive " story regarding hitherto unknown aspects of the case .

Interesting perspective, I agree with your comments as makes sense - I guess the question is when is all this info going to come out? Could there perhaps be a 'melting pot' of info/news of which WAPOL are trying to keep a lid on for the time being?

EDIT - link below whereby Acting PC advises that 'it is not over yet':
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/i...s-after-claremont-arrest-20170126-gtz69a.html

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I have a theory in relation to the failed attempts.

To date the only picture we have seen of BRE during the late 80s - 90s is a school picture the next set is some of him playing footy in the 2000s. We don't know exactly what he looked liked at that period of time we can only make assumptions.

Based on his stature, and he was involved in sport, he would be a fit guy with lots of hair, driving a fairly new station wagon (assumption) young etc

He didn't look like a crazed drug affected creep, middle aged etc.

He wouldn't be someone you would think was a serial killer or a rapist at first sight. Many people that have met or known him have said he was quiet, non descript normal etc.

What's to say he hasn't approached other women but because he was so normal it wasn't something you would have thought about or cared to remember. Because during that period even if he did approach you, you would even now dismiss it now because you would think you were wrong, wasn't the same guy, maybe he gave a different name etc.

I think more stories will come out once details emerge of how he operated or pictures of him during that time are released.

After that doco on the birnies was released a few days ago people in various forums, facebook etc are connecting the dots to what happened 30 years ago and whilst some claims may be falsified but some may genuinely be true because you wouldn't have thought of a couple trying to offer you a lift in a fairly new car to want to murder or kill you.

My thoughts...








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The PHOTO of BRE playing footy - I haven't seen this pic.
Do you have a link please?
I must have missed this post

 

[Owlie]

I would imagine that there are quite a few Catholic girls in the western suburbs who don't go to Iona and instead go to local schools - there still appears to be a theme of some sort.

Yes I'm sure that's true but there were only 3 state high schools in the western suburbs in those days Hollywood Senior High School which was behind Karrakatta cemetery, Swanbourne Senior High School and City Beach Senior High School, which were all closed down and replaced by Shenton College on the opposite (western) side of the railway in Shenton Park in 2001.
IMO, Ciara being Irish was probably Catholic, not sure if Sarah was Catholic but she was from the country so a boarder - perhaps her Mum went to Iona IDK. Jane went to Hollywood and I don't know anything about Lorrin Whitehead missing from Geelong but IMO that's a coincidence. Like I said though, the simplest explanation is usually the best but not always - truth an be stranger than fiction.


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[Look4Clues]

IMO I don't believe it was anything to do with being Catholic or attending Iona. Jane did go to Hollywood High, it has been confirmed previously.

All the girls had left school long ago before they disappeared.

John XXIII College is a catholic school in the western suburbs - it's an amalgamation of the old St Louis School and Loreto Convent, both previously located in Claremont but both now demolished.

Incidentally, many pupils who attended or go to John XXIII and Iona aren't actually of the Catholic faith but their parents enrolled them there because it's cheaper than the other denominational colleges in the western suburbs and they prefer a private education rather than a public high school education for their children - plus it's more prestigious.

Interesting but not necessarily surprising as Iona is the only catholic girls high school in the western suburbs of Perth, so if you are a girl from a Catholic family and want to go to school in the western suburbs it's your only choice. There's also Mercedes in the city or Santa Maria in Attadale but why travel further afield when you can just go to a very prestigious school in Mosman Park. And for country girl Sarah Spiers it's the only girls only Catholic boarding school in Perth.
Not having a crack at you but sometimes the simplest explanation is the best explanation.... And sometimes not! [emoji41]
(Source: Catholic Education Office WA
http://internet.ceo.wa.edu.au/Pages/default.aspx)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I am going to use a simple online editable wiki app to compile the data that has been referenced throughout these threads and others for reference purposes when using these threads, this is not in any way an attempt to undermine Web Sleuths just an attempt to make things easier for everyone, as the same questions are being asked and answered repeatedly.
I will probably do this in 3 weeks time, it will require a significant amount of trawling, map construction, etc but I hope it will make things significantly easier for everyone.
Hopefully others will want to contribute some time.

Great idea thanks JoeDetective! [emoji859]🏻Thank you for being so generous with your time and so dedicated. Cheers mate!

But please allow me to expand on your offer.....

I was thinking - can we all help somehow?

For example, would it be useful to start a NEW thread dedicated to just this MAPPING task?

(And is this possible?)

Whereby members could save you time by helping contribute the locations for you to include on the CSK map? I'm guessing skimming all the threads for mentioned locations would take forever - unless you've been taking notes since Thread #1!!! ✍️

Furthermore, making the mapping thread a 'no discussion' thread like the 'photos and media' one may significantly reduce your workload.

Joe what are your thoughts?
Will this help?

 

[Look4Clues]

Here is the photo of BRE playing footy with the Crocs in 2009

The PHOTO of BRE playing footy - I haven't seen this pic.
Do you have a link please?
I must have missed this post