Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #15

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Hi All,

Couple of random thoughts;

- I think it's important to remember how much the world has changed from 1996/1997 to now. In the interceding 20 odd years things have changed massively. For those that were around you may remember however when reviewing the facts it's worth remembering what the world was like pre-mobile phones (common useage), pre-Uber, pre-paypass etc. People relied on waiting for friends/prospective hook ups when out. People probably took significantly more chances, especially when drunk. There was a lot of frustration in waiting for taxis that some- times didn't come. My point is that we really need to put ourselves in the time zone when considering motivations of all parties.
- Suppression orders - PeteDavo - you mention that there are no suppression orders. I find this unusual in light of the almost minimal media speculation. The optimist in me wants this to be because the media are good guys that don't want to prejudice the case however based on the media in nearly all other cases this sadly doesn't seem to be the case. Hence surely there has to be some suppression orders in place. For there to be no old colleagues or aquaintances giving background info on the alleged suspect strikes me as very unsual. It's not like The Sunday Times is a bastion of morality!

Anyone else got any thoughts on the above?

Don't forget the hundreds of children and parents at LA for 10 years who crossed paths with the accused. 10 years on, some of those children would be adults now. All of these people would have opinions about the accused.

Where are their comments and reactions??? Zero. Nadah. Zilch.

Then there's school friends of the accused!!

Extreme lack of social media gossip in all areas. If it wasn't such a empty desert out there, sleuths would have found something by now.

IMO Seems like there's been suppression orders from very early on.

Either suppression orders or the public really cautious about ruining the case. The latter I hope is true. The man needs a fair trial. And Aussies need to know the truth.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
. The man needs a fair trial. And Aussies need to know the truth. ............................................Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright. [emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
Agreed!
 
I thought Morey was charged with SMM? Or was he just a suspect?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Natasha contradicted her police statement in the Coroner's Court, and so Morey was never charged. Morey said that Sarah went overseas and that he had spoken to her. There was no record of him calling her since that day. He got a bit upset when the Coroner asked him how he spoke to her whilst he was in prison. IMO it's only lack of evidence that a prosecution hadn't commenced accusing Morey.

JC appears to me to be a misadventure, whilst she was seeking attention from family by staging a suicide attempt, except it went wrong and she got caught in a rip with the car IMO. I did think there was an abduction originally, but I'm convinced there was no other party now. The story she told family about a car following her I'm convinced that she fabricated by reading out from an old 1986 newspaper article almost word for word. Check her other odd behaviour prior to her disappearance. IMO

Neither IMO appear to have any connection to the CSK case.

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Natasha contradicted her police statement in the Coroner's Court, and so Morey was never charged. Morey said that Sarah went overseas and that he had spoken to her. There was no record of him calling her since that day. He got a bit upset when the Coroner asked him how he spoke to her whilst he was in prison. IMO it's only lack of evidence that a prosecution hadn't commenced accusing Morey.

JC appears to me to be a misadventure, whilst she was seeking attention from family by staging a suicide attempt, except it went wrong and she got caught in a rip with the car IMO. I did think there was an abduction originally, but I'm convinced there was no other party now. The story she told family about a car following her I'm convinced that she fabricated by reading out from an old 1986 newspaper article almost word for word. Check her other odd behaviour prior to her disappearance. IMO

Neither IMO appear to have any connection to the CSK case.

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Which 1986 newspaper article?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
Natasha contradicted her police statement in the Coroner's Court, and so Morey was never charged. Morey said that Sarah went overseas and that he had spoken to her. There was no record of him calling her since that day. He got a bit upset when the Coroner asked him how he spoke to her whilst he was in prison. IMO it's only lack of evidence that a prosecution hadn't commenced accusing Morey.

JC appears to me to be a misadventure, whilst she was seeking attention from family by staging a suicide attempt, except it went wrong and she got caught in a rip with the car IMO. I did think there was an abduction originally, but I'm convinced there was no other party now. The story she told family about a car following her I'm convinced that she fabricated by reading out from an old 1986 newspaper article almost word for word. Check her other odd behaviour prior to her disappearance. IMO

Neither IMO appear to have any connection to the CSK case.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

What other odd behaviour?

And do you judge it odd behaviour whether or not she died?

Or do you consider it odd behaviour because in your opinion JC was a suicide case?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
What other odd behaviour?

And do you judge it odd behaviour whether or not she died?

Or do you consider it odd behaviour because in your opinion JC was a suicide case?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]


I've read nothing to suggest that JC was a suicide. It was reported that the Police suggested that she may have been the first victim.
 
CR's car was also dumped.

Are you including CR's car and case in your estimations?


If a SK kills a woman while she has her car with her, then naturally the car needs to be dumped somewhere.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
I'm not saying JC or SMM are definitely linked but when a straight line between both dumped cars passes through the same intersection that a line from JR to CG passes through in Claremont, its worth noting.
 
Don't forget the hundreds of children and parents at LA for 10 years who crossed paths with the accused. 10 years on, some of those children would be adults now. All of these people would have opinions about the accused.

Where are their comments and reactions??? Zero. Nadah. Zilch.

Then there's school friends of the accused!!

Extreme lack of social media gossip in all areas. If it wasn't such a empty desert out there, sleuths would have found something by now.

IMO Seems like there's been suppression orders from very early on.

Either suppression orders or the public really cautious about ruining the case. The latter I hope is true. The man needs a fair trial. And Aussies need to know the truth.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

I think the public is cautious about the possibility of somehow ruining the case. The media won't rehash 'old news' unless they are asked to by the police or it's the 20th anniversary etc. So until something new comes out what can they say. I think the older BE would have presented a more mellow persona to those involved in LA than the more reactive younger BE. And that even if those that knew him then entertain even a slight inclination the accusation is true they would be hoping it wasn't.
 
Sleuths need to uncover an online "How to be a Serial Killer" guide!

Some website that explains how to understand SK clues, motives, and choices!




............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
I've read nothing to suggest that JC was a suicide. It was reported that the Police suggested that she may have been the first victim.

The suggestion about JC being the first victim was related to LW and JC being in the same course at W.A.I.T. (Curtin Uni) in the first year of her course. LW didn't proceed past first year. I am not totally against the idea of JC being related to the CSK but the Macro taskforce reasons were about LW. I have posted links to this before.
 
What other odd behaviour?

And do you judge it odd behaviour whether or not she died?

Or do you consider it odd behaviour because in your opinion JC was a suicide case?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
Already commented upon that in the other thread on non CSK cases.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13414341

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I've read nothing to suggest that JC was a suicide. It was reported that the Police suggested that she may have been the first victim.
Actually the Police said to the media at the time that they thought it might be staged to look like a suicide, hence why they listed her as a missing person. I too think it was staged to look like a suicide, but by JC herself. But she cocked it up and got swept out to sea IMO.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 
What other odd behaviour?

And do you judge it odd behaviour whether or not she died?

Or do you consider it odd behaviour because in your opinion JC was a suicide case?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
Changing her clothes to a ballgown every time she left work so she wouldn't be mistaken for a worker. Leaving one of her uniforms in a cafe.. Having a degree in a course that didn't get one work that payed to the level one had become accustomed to as a kid going to Iona. Breakup with boyfriend. Family just moved to Kalgoorlie leaving her behind. Weird phone call telling family about being followed and how scary that was. These are all jumping out as cry's for help. IMO

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 
Which 1986 newspaper article?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
This one.
I think she found an old paper and read it.
I'm reluctant to post it because the Recruit probably doesn't have anything to do with JC, except that he was named with Capon etc as working in the Claremont detectives office in that Pamela Lawrence Royal Commission which would place him there around that time of JC. Mere coincidence IMO. He's now a Detective S/Sgt and an OIC in the Great Southern so he doesn't need this spurious coincidences haunting him. I reckon JC read this and used it to try and spook her family to come back and rescue her from her droll life. IMO.
92d534335360ac9fc051347cdb943b0f.jpg


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Changing her clothes to a ballgown every time she left work so she wouldn't be mistaken for a worker. Leaving one of her uniforms in a cafe.. Having a degree in a course that didn't get one work that payed to the level one had become accustomed to as a kid going to Iona. Breakup with boyfriend. Family just moved to Kalgoorlie leaving her behind. Weird phone call telling family about being followed and how scary that was. These are all jumping out as cry's for help. IMO

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

All of this is rubbish IMO and from the newspaper and police reports at the time.

In the reports I read the police specifically said it was not a suicide and they didn't believe she was in the car when it entered the surf, previously posted. They were looking to question a male and a female seen to leave the work function she left around 12.30 am on Monday 20th June 1988. She changed from her work clothes into a black evening gown when she finished work around 10.00 pm and went to the work function in Julianas restaurant. She was carrying her work clothes in a plastic bag when she left the work function. The plastic bag with clothes turned up a year later, even though there was an appeal for them. We discussed this in an earlier thread. The owner most likely put the plastic bag into last property and didn't associate the plastic bag and clothes with JC. Her work uniform was only one of 17 and made specifically for staff. She was 22 years old and was studying at Uni working part time to save money for travelling: She rang her father saying she a car had tried to run her off the road because that was the truth. IMO she was stalked, overpowered by the male and female seen leaving after her, abducted and murdered. Car goes into ocean two days later lights on ignition on. Plastic bag with clothes dropped off by male and female going back to Parmenila to get their car. IMO police had more reasons than initially suspecting LW (who always denied being in the same class as JC) at Curtin Uni to think and tell family that she may have been CSK first victim. West Australian received a phone call from a woman saying she was JC and not to worry about her around Monday 27th June (Birniesque) family denied it could have been her.

Daily News Monday 27[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Pg 1 My Lost Julie Must Be Dead Father tells of worst fears...gone to Europe in the last months and never hesitated to telephone whenever she had the slightest difficulty. He was certain if she was alive and merely had a problem she would have contacted him. Mr Cutler said she had been working at the Parmelia, in room service, mainly to earn travel money. “She liked to travel,” he said. “She was more interested in travel that anything else”....

"She had been saving up to go travelling after graduating from WAIT (now Curtin University) where she majored in English literature, with a minor in theatre arts."Rachel Cutler was 10 when Julie, her half sister went missing. She said police had told her father that they suspected Julie had been taken by the same person who abducted three women from the Claremont Hotel in the 1990's.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ered-SK-victims/page6&p=13414341#post13414341

Daily Mail Friday 24[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Beach Hunt Goes on for Missing Girl Hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth’s women Midnight Fear …
The land and sea search for missing Fremantle woman Julie Cutler, 22, continued this morning off Cottesloe beach, where her car was found 35 m off shore on Wednesday. Cottesloe Town Council rangers joined police on the beach search...

CoupleDet-Sgt Katich is anxious to speak to a man and woman who left the Parmelia Hilton Hotel about the same time as Miss Cutler on Monday evening.The couple were behind her as she left the hotel through a rear door leading to a staff carpark. Det-Sgt Katich said Miss Cutler, a room service employee at the hotel had worked last Sunday night before changing out of her work clothes to attend a staff awards night in Juliana’s night club, which is a part of the hotel.

Det-Sgt Katich is still puzzled about how the car apparently was driven into the sea. Police believe it was driven off the Cottesloe Groyne or off a boatshed ramp 150 m north.The ignition and lights were on and the driver’s window and door were open.

Daily News Friday 1[SUP]st[/SUP] July pg 3 Missing Items Hold Key to Julie Mystery by Norm Aisbett A missing shoulder bag and a set of clothes are adding to the mystery of vanished Fremantle woman Julie Leanne Cutler. Police can’t understand why neither item has washed up on Cottesloe beach, where her Fiat sedan was found last week.
Party
While they refuse to speculate, it does raise doubt on whether she was in the car when it was scuttled. The police say Julie, 22, was carrying both items when she left a staff party at the Parmelia Hilton Hotel about 12.30am on Monday June 20.

She was last seen in the hotel’s staff carpark unlocking her vehicle. The missing items puzzle was explained by major crime quad Detective Senior Constable Ron Carey who is working on the case with Det-Sgt Vince Katich. He said they were anxious for any information about the bag and clothes. They hope their recovery will help establish Julie’s movements. The light brown leather shoulder bag was about 30 cm long and about 22 cm deep. It had a fold over flap and contained the usual female accessories.

The clothing items were the white blouse and black skirt wore in her job at the Parmelia. These were in a white plastic bag. Julie had changed out of the work clothes at 10pm on Sunday, June 19 when she finished work in the hotel and prepared for the staff only party in the hotel nightclub...
“At the moment we haven’t been able to find anything that she owned, carried or wore by her … the night she disappeared.” he said.“We need something tangible, something we can pick up and hold.”

Det. Carey said interviews with hotel staff had established Julie walked to her car with the plastic bag containing the clothes in her left hand. A senior male employee spoke to her briefly before she walked off to the passenger’s side of her vehicle to unlock it – apparently because the driver’s door could not be unlocked from the outside. He did not see her get into the car.

Friday 24th June 1988, ‘West Australian’ pg 3 reports that the back seat of Julie’scar was found in the sea, near the groyne, on Monday. The car was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignition and lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and both front doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seen exiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward.

This is just a selection of news articles from the time.

 
I'm not saying JC or SMM are definitely linked but when a straight line between both dumped cars passes through the same intersection that a line from JR to CG passes through in Claremont, its worth noting.

No, the line doesn't go through where SMM's car was found, (or any of the bodies found around Midland as previously posted by Spinnaker), as far as I can tell. Can you please post your map if you are claiming that it does?
 
Does anyone know when Detective Sergeant Vince Katich retired?

"It was Detective Sergeant Vince Katich who arrested famous Perth serial killers David and Catherine Birnie, convincing the former to confess and show him where the bodies were buried so he could get them dug up before dark."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...t/news-story/49244a0a469ab67b10aac94c340af06b


"
The Birnies were detained by police, who tried to trick them into confessing to the crimes by intense interrogation. Around dusk, Detective Sergeant Vince Katich said in a joking manner to David Birnie, "It's getting dark. Best we take the shovel and dig them up." Birnie replied, "Okay. There are four of them." The Birnies were reportedly very excited, even proud, to show the police the locations of the graves of their four victims."

(Source: Facebook Lost Perth Page (23 May 2013) and repeated on Memories of Bunbury page (28 May 2013)

attachment.php

Pic from these two sources.

IMO Seems to me that Det Sarg Katich was the type of cop that would've been useful in helping solve the CSK case sooner....
If only things were different.



 

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All of this is rubbish IMO and from the newspaper and police reports at the time.

In the reports I read the police specifically said it was not a suicide and they didn't believe she was in the car when it entered the surf, previously posted. They were looking to question a male and a female seen to leave the work function she left around 12.30 am on Monday 20th June 1988. She changed from her work clothes into a black evening gown when she finished work around 10.00 pm and went to the work function in Julianas restaurant. She was carrying her work clothes in a plastic bag when she left the work function. The plastic bag with clothes turned up a year later, even though there was an appeal for them. We discussed this in an earlier thread. The owner most likely put the plastic bag into last property and didn't associate the plastic bag and clothes with JC. Her work uniform was only one of 17 and made specifically for staff. She was 22 years old and was studying at Uni working part time to save money for travelling: She rang her father saying she a car had tried to run her off the road because that was the truth. IMO she was stalked, overpowered by the male and female seen leaving after her, abducted and murdered. Car goes into ocean two days later lights on ignition on. Plastic bag with clothes dropped off by male and female going back to Parmenila to get their car. IMO police had more reasons than initially suspecting LW (who always denied being in the same class as JC) at Curtin Uni to think and tell family that she may have been CSK first victim. West Australian received a phone call from a woman saying she was JC and not to worry about her around Monday 27th June (Birniesque) family denied it could have been her.

Daily News Monday 27[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Pg 1 My Lost Julie Must Be Dead Father tells of worst fears...gone to Europe in the last months and never hesitated to telephone whenever she had the slightest difficulty. He was certain if she was alive and merely had a problem she would have contacted him. Mr Cutler said she had been working at the Parmelia, in room service, mainly to earn travel money. “She liked to travel,” he said. “She was more interested in travel that anything else”....

"She had been saving up to go travelling after graduating from WAIT (now Curtin University) where she majored in English literature, with a minor in theatre arts."Rachel Cutler was 10 when Julie, her half sister went missing. She said police had told her father that they suspected Julie had been taken by the same person who abducted three women from the Claremont Hotel in the 1990's.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ered-SK-victims/page6&p=13414341#post13414341

Daily Mail Friday 24[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Beach Hunt Goes on for Missing Girl Hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth’s women Midnight Fear …
The land and sea search for missing Fremantle woman Julie Cutler, 22, continued this morning off Cottesloe beach, where her car was found 35 m off shore on Wednesday. Cottesloe Town Council rangers joined police on the beach search...

CoupleDet-Sgt Katich is anxious to speak to a man and woman who left the Parmelia Hilton Hotel about the same time as Miss Cutler on Monday evening.The couple were behind her as she left the hotel through a rear door leading to a staff carpark. Det-Sgt Katich said Miss Cutler, a room service employee at the hotel had worked last Sunday night before changing out of her work clothes to attend a staff awards night in Juliana’s night club, which is a part of the hotel.

Det-Sgt Katich is still puzzled about how the car apparently was driven into the sea. Police believe it was driven off the Cottesloe Groyne or off a boatshed ramp 150 m north.The ignition and lights were on and the driver’s window and door were open.

Daily News Friday 1[SUP]st[/SUP] July pg 3 Missing Items Hold Key to Julie Mystery by Norm Aisbett A missing shoulder bag and a set of clothes are adding to the mystery of vanished Fremantle woman Julie Leanne Cutler. Police can’t understand why neither item has washed up on Cottesloe beach, where her Fiat sedan was found last week.
Party
While they refuse to speculate, it does raise doubt on whether she was in the car when it was scuttled. The police say Julie, 22, was carrying both items when she left a staff party at the Parmelia Hilton Hotel about 12.30am on Monday June 20.

She was last seen in the hotel’s staff carpark unlocking her vehicle. The missing items puzzle was explained by major crime quad Detective Senior Constable Ron Carey who is working on the case with Det-Sgt Vince Katich. He said they were anxious for any information about the bag and clothes. They hope their recovery will help establish Julie’s movements. The light brown leather shoulder bag was about 30 cm long and about 22 cm deep. It had a fold over flap and contained the usual female accessories.

The clothing items were the white blouse and black skirt wore in her job at the Parmelia. These were in a white plastic bag. Julie had changed out of the work clothes at 10pm on Sunday, June 19 when she finished work in the hotel and prepared for the staff only party in the hotel nightclub...
“At the moment we haven’t been able to find anything that she owned, carried or wore by her … the night she disappeared.” he said.“We need something tangible, something we can pick up and hold.”

Det. Carey said interviews with hotel staff had established Julie walked to her car with the plastic bag containing the clothes in her left hand. A senior male employee spoke to her briefly before she walked off to the passenger’s side of her vehicle to unlock it – apparently because the driver’s door could not be unlocked from the outside. He did not see her get into the car.

Friday 24th June 1988, ‘West Australian’ pg 3 reports that the back seat of Julie’scar was found in the sea, near the groyne, on Monday. The car was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignition and lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and both front doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seen exiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward.

This is just a selection of news articles from the time.

No foreign fingerprints inside the car. No witnesses to the events at Cottesloe Beach. No witnesses even seeing the Fiat in the journey. Her wallet left on the table in her Fremantle home. Not one tangible piece of evidence that anyone else was involved. Not one witness to even support that there was a car following other people before in that locality. Find other stories of a road rage or stalking incidents like this on Stirling Highway at the time. Convince me that she didn't die tragically by accident when she was pushing her own car into the ocean at the boat ramp, to make family come running to her pretend suicide attempt. Surely someone knows someone who's been followed by a madman driving a car on Stirling highway stalking females late at night? Maybe not, cause there wasn't. I've been convinced for a long time that a person shared too many coincidences with Kerry Turner and Julie Cutler, and looked for evidence, but other than locality and shift work and this old 1986 story, there's nothing. It's all confirmation bias IMO.

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