Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #15

[janwa]

Changing her clothes to a ballgown every time she left work so she wouldn't be mistaken for a worker. Leaving one of her uniforms in a cafe.. Having a degree in a course that didn't get one work that payed to the level one had become accustomed to as a kid going to Iona. Breakup with boyfriend. Family just moved to Kalgoorlie leaving her behind. Weird phone call telling family about being followed and how scary that was. These are all jumping out as cry's for help. IMO

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Or changing her clothes to an evening gown because there was a staff function that evening, working at a job that fits in with uni which is why she didn't go to Kalgoorlie. Made phone calls because she was being followed and frightened. Also there was at least 1 SM group that met at the Parmelia Hilton maybe someone had an obsession about her.

Just a possible alternative scenario.

 

[Innerchild]

No foreign fingerprints inside the car. No witnesses to the events at Cottesloe Beach. No witnesses even seeing the Fiat in the journey. Her wallet left on the table in her Fremantle home. Not one tangible piece of evidence that anyone else was involved. Not one witness to even support that there was a car following other people before in that locality. Find other stories of a road rage or stalking incidents like this on Stirling Highway at the time. Convince me that she didn't die tragically by accident when she was pushing her own car into the ocean at the boat ramp, to make family come running to her pretend suicide attempt. Surely someone knows someone who's been followed by a madman driving a car on Stirling highway stalking females late at night? Maybe not, cause there wasn't. I've been convinced for a long time that a person shared too many coincidences with Kerry Turner and Julie Cutler, and looked for evidence, but other than locality and shift work and this old 1986 story, there's nothing. It's all confirmation bias IMO.

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There were foreign cigarette butts found in the car that her family were hoping could be identified with advances in DNA. I have an excellent reason why there were no witness at Cott. It's possible she left her wallet at home, she didn't need it for work and no evidence she ever went back to where she was living, what ever the scenario. IMO she was identified, stalked and her disappearance was planned and not random. If she was supposed to die by misadventure in knee depth water with knee height waves after pushing her 1.150 ton car into the water from the boat ramp where it was supposed to travel 150 m south along the beach where it was found with lights on and ignition on, two days after she disappeared. Oh ...and two days after the back seat washed up south of the groyne. This is a beach that has early morning swimmers, paddlers, runners, fishermen, paid beach inspectors in 4WD patrolling even in winter and a floodlight on the groyne just above where the car was discovered (see the 1988 image of the old boat shed for the floodlight in distance- in this image it is just to the left of the start of second word). IMO

Here is JC's Fiat. First picture published 12 years after Fiat was discovered in 2000 Sunday Times, knee high waves in the background with no sign of 6 m waves or tramulator sideways currents. I would take note of what Katich says as well.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ered-SK-victims/page6&p=13414341#post13414341
Her family hope technology will be able to analise clues left in the car by the killer...Rachel said the family hoped new evidence would lead to the perpetrator being caught."With advances in technology, we hope DNA can be obtained off cigarette filters that were found in Julie's car," she said."They were from a type of cigarette we know Julie didn't smoke and it might prove to be the lead we need.""Maybe someone who suspected something at the time will have the courage to come forward and contact Crimestoppers."..."When she disappeared we feared the worst because it was completely out of character," Rachel said...

 

[DRT]

Does anyone know when Detective Sergeant Vince Katich retired?

"It was Detective Sergeant Vince Katich who arrested famous Perth serial killers David and Catherine Birnie, convincing the former to confess and show him where the bodies were buried so he could get them dug up before dark."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...t/news-story/49244a0a469ab67b10aac94c340af06b


"The Birnies were detained by police, who tried to trick them into confessing to the crimes by intense interrogation. Around dusk, Detective Sergeant Vince Katich said in a joking manner to David Birnie, "It's getting dark. Best we take the shovel and dig them up." Birnie replied, "Okay. There are four of them." The Birnies were reportedly very excited, even proud, to show the police the locations of the graves of their four victims."

(Source: Facebook Lost Perth Page (23 May 2013) and repeated on Memories of Bunbury page (28 May 2013)

Pic from these two sources.

IMO Seems to me that Det Sarg Katich was the type of cop that would've been useful in helping solve the CSK case sooner....
If only things were different.

West Australian 22 March 1997 says "Vince Katich, who left the police force as a superintendent last year after a 31-year career". I don't have the link as it is through a library source.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

There were foreign cigarette butts found in the car that her family were hoping could be identified with advances in DNA. I have an excellent reason why there were no witness at Cott. It's possible she left her wallet at home, she didn't need it for work and no evidence she ever went back to where she was living, what ever the scenario. IMO she was identified, stalked and her disappearance was planned and not random. If she was supposed to die by misadventure in knee depth water with knee height waves after pushing her 1.150 ton car into the water from the boat ramp where it was supposed to travel 150 m south along the beach where it was found with lights on and ignition on, two days after she disappeared. Oh ...and two days after the back seat washed up south of the groyne. This is a beach that has early morning swimmers, paddlers, runners, fishermen, paid beach inspectors in 4WD patrolling even in winter and a floodlight on the groyne just above where the car was discovered (see the 1988 image of the old boat shed for the floodlight in distance- in this image it is just to the left of the start of second word). IMO

Here is JC's Fiat. First picture published 12 years after Fiat was discovered in 2000 Sunday Times, knee high waves in the background with no sign of 6 m waves or tramulator sideways currents. I would take note of what Katich says as well.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ered-SK-victims/page6&p=13414341#post13414341
Her family hope technology will be able to analise clues left in the car by the killer...Rachel said the family hoped new evidence would lead to the perpetrator being caught."With advances in technology, we hope DNA can be obtained off cigarette filters that were found in Julie's car," she said."They were from a type of cigarette we know Julie didn't smoke and it might prove to be the lead we need.""Maybe someone who suspected something at the time will have the courage to come forward and contact Crimestoppers."..."When she disappeared we feared the worst because it was completely out of character," Rachel said...

In reality, the cigarette butt being a different brand than her usual could just be a red herring.

For example, if JC had left her wallet and money at home, and had run out of cigarettes, she could have easily bummed a cigarette from someone from her work party, or from anyone she crossed paths with while on her way to where ever she was going before she went missing.

Any DNA on the unusual brand cigarette could just belong to JC. When bumming cigarettes smokers don't usually care about the brand. Unless it was a menthol vs non-menthol cigarette. Then they fuss! Lol


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[DRT]

In reality, the cigarette butt being a different brand than her usual could just be a red herring.

For example, if JC had left her wallet and money at home, and had run out of cigarettes, she could have easily bummed a cigarette from someone from her work party, or from anyone she crossed paths with while on her way to where ever she was going before she went missing.

Any DNA on the unusual brand cigarette could just belong to JC. When bumming cigarettes smokers don't usually care about the brand. Unless it was a menthol vs non-menthol cigarette. Then they fuss! Lol


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

In those days cigarettes were about $2.50 a packet so people didn't feel like they were missing a meal to give someone a cigarette. It may be that she grabbed some money out of her wallet and put it into her handbag which could be why her wallet was left at home. A bulky wallet may not have been the look. She probably wouldn't have needed much money that night as the staff function would have been fully catered for and she was working before then and was driving so wouldn't have been drinking much.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

In those days cigarettes were about $2.50 a packet so people didn't feel like they were missing a meal to give someone a cigarette. It may be that she grabbed some money out of her wallet and put it into her handbag which could be why her wallet was left at home. A bulky wallet may not have been the look. She probably wouldn't have needed much money that night as the staff function would have been fully catered for and she was working before then and was driving so wouldn't have been drinking much.

OMG $2.50 for a pack of cigarettes in 1988!!!!


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[petedavo.au]

West Australian 22 March 1997 says "Vince Katich, who left the police force as a superintendent last year after a 31-year career". I don't have the link as it is through a library source.

You know that, Vince headed up the hunt for John Friedrich.

West German police believe Mr Friedrich is Friedrich Hohenberger, who is wanted for allegedly defrauding a West German construction firm in 1974 before allegedly faking his death and escaping to Australia.

It was a tip-off from a taxi driver that led Western Australian police to Friedrich after a 16-day nationwide manhunt across Australia from Albury in NSW, where he was last seen on March 21.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122252027

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122252533

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[petedavo.au]

There were foreign cigarette butts found in the car that her family were hoping could be identified with advances in DNA. I have an excellent reason why there were no witness at Cott. It's possible she left her wallet at home, she didn't need it for work and no evidence she ever went back to where she was living, what ever the scenario. IMO she was identified, stalked and her disappearance was planned and not random. If she was supposed to die by misadventure in knee depth water with knee height waves after pushing her 1.150 ton car into the water from the boat ramp where it was supposed to travel 150 m south along the beach where it was found with lights on and ignition on, two days after she disappeared. Oh ...and two days after the back seat washed up south of the groyne. This is a beach that has early morning swimmers, paddlers, runners, fishermen, paid beach inspectors in 4WD patrolling even in winter and a floodlight on the groyne just above where the car was discovered (see the 1988 image of the old boat shed for the floodlight in distance- in this image it is just to the left of the start of second word). IMO

Here is JC's Fiat. First picture published 12 years after Fiat was discovered in 2000 Sunday Times, knee high waves in the background with no sign of 6 m waves or tramulator sideways currents. I would take note of what Katich says as well.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ered-SK-victims/page6&p=13414341#post13414341
Her family hope technology will be able to analise clues left in the car by the killer...Rachel said the family hoped new evidence would lead to the perpetrator being caught."With advances in technology, we hope DNA can be obtained off cigarette filters that were found in Julie's car," she said."They were from a type of cigarette we know Julie didn't smoke and it might prove to be the lead we need.""Maybe someone who suspected something at the time will have the courage to come forward and contact Crimestoppers."..."When she disappeared we feared the worst because it was completely out of character," Rachel said...

So, if you're convinced that a third party is responsible, it's an outrageously risky to set up the vehicle disposal at Cottesloe Beach of all places IMO. Unless you know the area well enough at night to know when no one is around. Someone who works or lives nearby?

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[Spooks-R-Us]

West Australian 22 March 1997 says "Vince Katich, who left the police force as a superintendent last year after a 31-year career". I don't have the link as it is through a library source.

Thanks DRT


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[janwa]

So, if you're convinced that a third party is responsible, it's an outrageously risky to set up the vehicle disposal at Cottesloe Beach of all places IMO. Unless you know the area well enough at night to know when no one is around. Someone who works or lives nearby?

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Maybe JC was being groomed over a few weeks by a customer or a couple that frequented the Parmelia Hilton. They could have asked her to give her/him/them a lift or for all of them to go to another venue or in fact some ones house. Having built up trust she goes with whoever. Something happens to her and she is disposed of. The car is dumped at Cottesloe miles away and 3/4 drunken idiots find it andpush it into the ocean. There is often an unexpected window of opportunity that someone takes advantage of and the inexplicable happens i.e. the girls disappearing from Claremont.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

So, if you're convinced that a third party is responsible, it's an outrageously risky to set up the vehicle disposal at Cottesloe Beach of all places IMO. Unless you know the area well enough at night to know when no one is around. Someone who works or lives nearby?

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Never said I was convinced of a third party.
I just commented on the cigarette butts possibly containing JC's DNA.


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Mo Joe]

Why didn't they trace the phone call (from the female) to the West Australian?

 

[Mo Joe]

Why aren't they DNA testing the clothes and plastic bag that were found a year after her disappearance?

 

[Innerchild]

So, if you're convinced that a third party is responsible, it's an outrageously risky to set up the vehicle disposal at Cottesloe Beach of all places IMO. Unless you know the area well enough at night to know when no one is around. Someone who works or lives nearby?

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I thought about it, putting different people into scenarios when this was discussed intitially, but no I don't think so.

 

[Annalise]

I wonder what the connection is between JC's disappearance and the Claremont Serial Killer case. I know the police are supposed to have told JC's family that they thought JC's disappearance was connected to CSK but WHY? MOO

 

[Annalise]

The only connections I can see between JC, JR, SS and CG are - 3 girls went to Iona Presentation College. All girls were out late at night in entertainment areas of Perth. JC and SS country family connections. All girls were alone or having left friends they had been with. All seemed like very friendly people. MOO

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

Maybe they are but need to keep it out of the media until they match it? I mean so many years later, her abductor has got to feel pretty secure.

IF BE is the abductor/murderer of both one either JC and/or SS, and the Police know it or at least heavily suspect it, can they use that as a bargaining tool? Could they potentially say look, we know you did it, we have evidence, just fess up and give up the location of the bodies and then we'll knock off a few years off your sentence? Does anyone know if that's possible?

Sorry first para was in response to MoJo asking about DNA testing of JC clothing.

 

[Kambo]

Maybe they are but need to keep it out of the media until they match it? I mean so many years later, her abductor has got to feel pretty secure.

IF BE is the abductor/murderer of both one either JC and/or SS, and the Police know it or at least heavily suspect it, can they use that as a bargaining tool? Could they potentially say look, we know you did it, we have evidence, just fess up and give up the location of the bodies and then we'll knock off a few years off your sentence? Does anyone know if that's possible?

Sorry first para was in response to MoJo asking about DNA testing of JC clothing.

If accused is found guilty he isn't getting out. They could offer to knock years off but he isn't that stupid to think he would one day be eligible for parole.


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[janwa]

One of the reports of underground activities that go on undetected by neighbors sounds like an ideal spot to hide a body or a captive

*advertiser censored*
POLICE HAUL UNDER HOUSE
By chief police report CYRIL AYRIS
DETECTIVES Investigating alleged *advertiser censored* offences yesterday discovered two cellars and connecting tunnels under a house they raided.
The subterranean system was found by chance when one of the detectives moved a floor safe in
the lounge-room.
The safe slip silently back under the floor, revealing a shaft.
The detectives climbed down into a timber lined room nearly two metres high by about here metres square.
A tunnel led from the room to another cavern farther under the house.
The chief of the DIB, Lee Walker, said that a quantity of graphic negatives of children aged from 10 to 17 had been seized.
The two cellars were dug under a $130,000 house in a quiet suburban street.
They were found after the CIB team, led by Det. Sgt. Jack Gage of the vice squad resumed their search for pornographic negatives.
An exhaustive search of several houses on Wednesday had resulted in the seizure of photographs but no negatives were found.
The police ripped up carpets in one house revealing the safe set into timber floor boards. Carpets
The safe was opened but it was only when one of the detectives fiddled with mechanism that it slid out of view on rails under the floor.
When the searchers peered into the hole they saw a flight of timber steps leading down into the cellars.
When they climbed down the steps they discovered that the rooms had electric lights and there was ducting to carry fresh air into the area.
Sand from the excavations is believed to fill depressions in the back yard.

 

[petedavo.au]

Never said I was convinced of a third party.
I just commented on the cigarette butts possibly containing JC's DNA.


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Cigarette butts can be an interesting source of DNA, especially if someone cleans out their car at a dump site, or collects someone else's discarded butts at work and dumps them at a crime scene to incriminate someone else....
Just a thought.

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