Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Canning Vale]

Agree not much in the bag to identify her possibly left Canningale but the police and press were keen to find it, a picture of one that looked just like hers was in the paper. I think most locals would have been on the lookout, if someone found it without realising it was Julie's what are they going to do with a soggy dinged up handbag? Probably just toss it back into the sea or poke it with a stick before leaving it there for someone else to pick up.

Innerchild,

Can you remember back in June 1988, if swimmers were made aware to look out for anything that may have turned up?

 

[Canning Vale]

Hi Innerchild,

Noted that the ignition was on and also that the lights were on but we know the motor wasn't still running same as the headlights may also have died even if the switch was in the "ON" position.

Is there anything in the press that states the headlights were still live and beaming do we know?

Pandit,

Excellent thinking about the headlights. Headlights don't usually stay on long before draining the battery.

 

[petedavo.au]

What's everyone's thoughts on JCs items perhaps turning up on different beaches? As Pandit has mentioned there's her shoes and handbag. Although the car's back seat didn't go very far, but I suppose that would have floated.

Buoyancy is the key here IMO. Back seat being above waterline would've been affected by wind. Less buoyant objects by wave & tide action alone. So I reckon that's why they end up in different places.

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[Spooks-R-Us]

About the headlights being on -was the car's lights switch actually turned to "on" position?
Or did electrical circuitry go crazy in the salt water causing the lights to come on?

Someone please educate me about auto-electrics plus salt water!


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Pandit]

Local knowledge is invaluable but what I don't understand is if the police thought the car seat was removed first and dumped then the car later, I'm sure they would have called foul play by another party immediately, questions of suicide, staged disappearance or freak accident not entertained whatsoever and we know that these other possibilities were explored.

The press says the car was there for two days not three but I'd shout Weiss bars for everyone if we could pin the exact day first mention of a car being under the water was raised and how long it took from then to haul it out. I suspect it wasn't all on the same day.

Really sad but fascinating case, one I can't help but feel should have been solved.

No don't know who first discovered and reported Fiat. Not club members afaik. Most probably a early morning jogger who saw the lights and reported to police. It wasn't an issue among the guys who witnessed the car (after it was seen). No one spoke about Fiat being there for days as IMO it wasn't. It would have been impossible for it not to have been noticed with the normal activities on Cott beach. There was no talk of rouge waves and weather charts for 22nd show even lower swells and wind than 20th June 1988. What you need to explain is how the back seat washed up south of the groyne two days before the Fiat entered the water, IMO.

PS I swam bog laps between pylon and groyne along with a steady number of others. We weren't the 'bobbies' swimming around mid beach, Spooks.

 

[Innerchild]

Hi Innerchild,

Noted that the ignition was on and also that the lights were on but we know the motor wasn't still running same as the headlights may also have died even if the switch was in the "ON" position.

Is there anything in the press that states the headlights were still live and beaming do we know?

There are are a few reports that say the ignition and lights were turned on. The West Australian on 8th July 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped says...They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on...

There has never been any doubt for me that the car was in the water only a matter of hours. This is after talking to witness's who saw it soon after it was discovered. The wording to me when the report says lights turned on means the lights were turned on and beaming. The Fiat was defiantly recovered the same day. This is also reported. It may have taken a couple of hours but professional's were called in to retrieve it.

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

Another one:

Andrew Mallard spent nearly 12 years in jail after being wrongly convicted for murder!
Took WAPOL all this time to realise, or admit to, making that mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Mallard

Similar happened to a guy called Alan staines. 12 years until the forensic pathologists realised they had assigned a crime scene DNA sample to the wrong person (and another year before anyone remembered to tell him)

http://amp.watoday.com.au/wa-news/review-to-look-at-15-years-of-dna-in-wa-20170510-gw1x3m.html

And they say 13 is an unlucky number, ha!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Similar happened to a guy called Alan staines. 12 years until the forensic pathologists realised they had assigned a crime scene DNA sample to the wrong person (and another year before anyone remembered to tell him)

http://amp.watoday.com.au/wa-news/review-to-look-at-15-years-of-dna-in-wa-20170510-gw1x3m.html

And they say 13 is an unlucky number, ha!

OMG!


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[WhyWhy]

Hello all, and welcome too, Occula.
I've been off for ages and dropped back in to see how the October court date might be looking.
Still so much on the tragic case of the Fiat in the water. Any actual plausible connection to the alleged BRE or is this actually another missing person case? Perhaps worth setting up a JC page?


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[meticulously]

Yes thats horrible isn't it MND !

Similar happened to a guy called Alan staines. 12 years until the forensic pathologists realised they had assigned a crime scene DNA sample to the wrong person (and another year before anyone remembered to tell him)

http://amp.watoday.com.au/wa-news/review-to-look-at-15-years-of-dna-in-wa-20170510-gw1x3m.html

And they say 13 is an unlucky number, ha!

"Alan Staines received a suspended jail sentence for the crime."

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...med-by-wa-police-chief-on-human-error/8486926

"Mr Staines took his lawyer’s advice and walked away with a suspended jail term."

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/innocent-man-still-haunted-by-stain-on-name-ng-b88459752z

 

[meticulously]

Asked to delete post sorry

 

[Canning Vale]

My thoughts on the Monday morning JC was last seen ….

The day beforehand JC had worked all day, and then attended a work function. She was probably tired and cold, just wanting to go home. I don’t suppose clubbing entered her mind – it was a Monday morning!

Although the beach was on route home, it would have been cold and miserable, and especially windy. Not a nice place to purposely visit on a winter’s night - besides JC had her own place in Fremantle.

After leaving the Parmelia what’s the proposed route JC would have taken home?

The shortest route?

Did JC drink alcohol and travel the back roads?

If she travelled along Stirling Hwy, what’s just before Cottesloe Beach?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

My thoughts on the Monday morning JC was last seen ….

The day beforehand JC had worked all day, and then attended a work function. She was probably tired and cold, just wanting to go home. I don’t suppose clubbing entered her mind – it was a Monday morning!

Although the beach was on route home, it would have been cold and miserable, and especially windy. Not a nice place to purposely visit on a winter’s night - besides JC had her own place in Fremantle.

After leaving the Parmelia what’s the proposed route JC would have taken home?

The shortest route?

Did JC drink alcohol and travel the back roads?

If she travelled along Stirling Hwy, what’s just before Cottesloe Beach?

Claremont!


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[meticulously]

My thoughts on the Monday morning JC was last seen ….

The day beforehand JC had worked all day, and then attended a work function. She was probably tired and cold, just wanting to go home. I don’t suppose clubbing entered her mind – it was a Monday morning!

Although the beach was on route home, it would have been cold and miserable, and especially windy. Not a nice place to purposely visit on a winter’s night - besides JC had her own place in Fremantle.

After leaving the Parmelia what’s the proposed route JC would have taken home?

The shortest route?

Did JC drink alcohol and travel the back roads?

If she travelled along Stirling Hwy, what’s just before Cottesloe Beach?

It was not windy CV , light winds and cold 8 degrees .

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Sunday nights, pubs closed at 9pm, nightclubs closed at 12 midnight.
I'm guessing JC didn't go clubbing after her Parmelia function.



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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Zedx]

What's everyone's thoughts on JCs items perhaps turning up on different beaches? As Pandit has mentioned there's her shoes and handbag. Although the car's back seat didn't go very far, but I suppose that would have floated.

I believe in all likelyhood that JC was not in the car when it went into the water and that is why nothing has ever been found. JMO

 

[Zedx]

Sunday nights, pubs closed at 9pm, nightclubs closed at 12 midnight.
I'm guessing JC didn't go clubbing after her Parmelia function.
............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Apparently, back in the day, not sure what years though, the Scarborough Night Club had a license to stay open to 6am. it was later changed to 3am. Not sure about Sunday nights though.

 

[Pandit]

Thanks for that information of same day recovery, I will go back over and read the articles more thoroughly.

When a statement says "ignition and lights turned on" in the same sentence, mindful of consistency it means only to me that they were both in the "ON" position, not that the motor was still running because that wouldn't be possible and the lights still beaming bright.

It would be interesting also to know, what gear it was in when found.

One day, I hope the Cutler family get some solid answers. IMO the car entered the beach somewhere east of the groyne and skirted the shore on hard wet sand before making a right turn into the surf trying to make it appear Julie went off the groyne in an accident. Two birds with one stone, destroying evidence at the same time. It's BRE's turf and since a detective has told Mr Cutler Julie was likely an early victim of the CSK he could well have been involved, possibly with an accomplice who lived close to that beach.

There are are a few reports that say the ignition and lights were turned on. The West Australian on 8th July 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped says...They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on...

There has never been any doubt for me that the car was in the water only a matter of hours. This is after talking to witness's who saw it soon after it was discovered. The wording to me when the report says lights turned on means the lights were turned on and beaming. The Fiat was defiantly recovered the same day. This is also reported. It may have taken a couple of hours but professional's were called in to retrieve it.

 

[Innerchild]

Local knowledge is invaluable but what I don't understand is if the police thought the car seat was removed first and dumped then the car later, I'm sure they would have called foul play by another party immediately, questions of suicide, staged disappearance or freak accident not entertained whatsoever and we know that these other possibilities were explored.

The press says the car was there for two days not three but I'd shout Weiss bars for everyone if we could pin the exact day first mention of a car being under the water was raised and how long it took from then to haul it out. I suspect it wasn't all on the same day.

Really sad but fascinating case, one I can't help but feel should have been solved.

There were many headlines that did call foul play Daily News Monday 27[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Pg 1 "My Lost Julie Must Be Dead." "Father tells of worst fears" The Daily News 28th June 1988 "Let her Go". Police said they were keeping an open mind, and the suggestion of suicide was squashed very quickly and never accepted by the family.

News reports have never said the car was there for two days. It was always the car was found two days after she disappeared or in The West Australian July 8th 1988 ""Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped" ...Her two tone 1968 Fiat 125 was found two days later floating in the surf at Cottesloe beach...

Winching a car in with a tow truck, especially if police suspect a woman might be in the car would not have taken that long, a matter of hours to get it where you can inspect the boot, wait for the tide to go out further then put it on it’s wheels.

However, 'floating', I wouldn't think so. But the reports were making sure it was obvious it was not hard to see IMO. There have been discussions before about the difficulties of policing in 1988 in Perth as detailed by police whistle blowers. Interesting that in the 12 years it took to publish an image of the car was there a different commish, top cop?

Headline of The Sunday Times July 14 2000, when the image of the Fiat was first published was "Was Julie First Victim?" Claremont Serial killings

 

[meticulously]

Hello all, and welcome too, Occula.
I've been off for ages and dropped back in to see how the October court date might be looking.
Still so much on the tragic case of the Fiat in the water. Any actual plausible connection to the alleged BRE or is this actually another missing person case? Perhaps worth setting up a JC page?


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Yeah its a grand mystery lil JC and her car.
K.Turner , could be a bra victim too but theres no things to investigate like there is with JC imo .
LBrown too could be connected ?
You name it, we'll try sleuth it, if it might be a victim of the alleged csk [emoji165][emoji165][emoji165]