Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Innerchild]

Thats a really good point pandit ,
Surely , smart enough locals would have seen if there were tyre tracks on the beach or not ?
Some persons that watched the beach daily on a walk , run , water activity etc .
Someone with an eagle eye who looked for tracks asap .
Surely some people figured it out !

Good theory that re misinformation
.

I agree. I'm convinced that the car would have been seen first thing, early morning, lights on. And even more convinced with possible misinformation about it going off the groyne about a boat doing a bog lap.

Interesting Spooks mentioned broken class as all the windows had all but disintegrated. However, there was no mention that I can recall of broken glass being cleaned up or retrieved. There was a mention that police divers has found a black car mat on the Friday 24th June near the groyne.

Lastly, it may have been on one of the images that was withdrawn, and also looking at the tow vehicle it almost certainly was using cable and not rope to winch the Fiat and attach to the chains. This would have been able to withstand very high tension.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I agree. I'm convinced that the car would have been seen first thing, early morning, lights on. And even more convinced with possible misinformation about it going off the groyne about a boat doing a bog lap.

Interesting Spooks mentioned broken class as all the windows had all but disintegrated. However, there was no mention that I can recall of broken glass being cleaned up or retrieved. There was a mention that police divers has found a black car mat on the Friday 24th June near the groyne.

Lastly, it may have been on one of the images that was withdrawn, and also looking at the tow vehicle it almost certainly was using cable and not rope to winch the Fiat and attach to the chains. This would have been able to withstand very high tension.

RE: using rope or chain
Car was already a wreck so no danger of rope wrecking panels or paint work.
Agreed - needed wire cable to withstand high tension pulling water logged car across soft sand.
No easy task


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Innerchild]

Please don't take this the wrong way - but if you swam everyday at Cott Beach, why didn't you spot the submerged FIAT?

You've regularly posted that regular swimmers and beach goers should've spotted the submerged Fiat in the water, especially if the Fiat was in the water for 3 days.

Do you know who first found the Fiat?
Do you know who reported the Fiat to cops?

Plus I'm interested to know how much, and how often did the clubbies discuss the Fiat in the ocean?
Back then, what were some of the theories of how the Fiat landed in the ocean?
It must've been a HUGE talking point for ages!!!

Can you please describe the reactions of local clubbies to the discovery of the Fiat in your watery backyard?
What was it like back then?
Did WAPOL interview many clubbies or Bobbies?

Any information would be great [emoji106]
TIA


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

I have posted all this info before, and while it is easy to forget I really expect sleuthers to read the posts. Not saying anything about you or anyone in particular, of course. I lived in Forrest St for two years in a share house while going to Uni when I first arrived in Perth. I joined Cott and stayed with them for a number of years after I moved, when I joined another SLSC closer to home. I was a member but not living at Cott in 1988. Fiat wasn't in the water for three days, IMO. I did talk with the club guys, mostly older retired, who were on the beach that day and saw the Fiat. They talked about it for up to a year after that I can remember. They talked about how it was impossible for the Fiat to have entered the ocean and talked about it having to be disposed of by boat and car crushers, which I listened to but couldn't comprehend. If I had seen the damage to the car, or a picture of it, I may have taken them more seriously. I think if the image of the car was published at the time and not 12 years later, many more people would have been asking questions. I've independently calculated the huge amount of force it would taken to cause that damage (using a control if you remember). I am open to the damage to roof being caused by being winched in, knowing that strong cable was used, as well.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spectacles where are my spectacles...and not that they swam much either. They would be kicking the Fiat as they bobbed around on the spot

IC
In this post you state the Bobbies didn't swim much, but in a later post you state the Bobbies sometimes swam around the pylon and back.

In your opinion, did the Bobbies swim or bob around in the water area immediately above where you believe the Fiat was submerged?


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Innerchild]

They did pull the Fiat onto the wheels before they winched it over the sand and probably onto a larger truck.

Does anyone know what the blob under the Fiat is on this image? It's very similar to the blurring that occurred in Jane R cctv footage.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I have posted all this info before, and while it is easy to forget I really expect sleuthers to read the posts. Not saying anything about you of course. I lived in Forrest St for two years in a share house while going to Uni when I first arrived in Perth. I joined Cott and stayed with them for a number of years after I moved, when I joined another SLSC closer to home. I was a member but not living at Cott in 1988. It wasn't in the water for three days. I did talk with the club guys, mostly older retired, who were on the beach that day and saw the Fiat. They talked about it for up to a year after that I can remember. They talked about how it was impossible for the Fiat to have entered the ocean and talked about it having to be disposed of by boat and car crushers, which I listened to but couldn't comprehend. If I had seen the damage to the car, or a picture of it, I may have taken them more seriously. I think if the image of the car was published at the time and not 12 years later, many more people would have been asking questions. I've independently calculated the huge amount of force it would taken to cause that damage (using a control if you remember).

Thanks IC.
I do recall your extensive calculations on the force needed etc, but I couldn't remember if you'd spoken about the general reactions from other Clubbies .
Apologies if I missed this.

Cheers


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I have posted all this info before, and while it is easy to forget I really expect sleuthers to read the posts. Not saying anything about you of course. I lived in Forrest St for two years in a share house while going to Uni when I first arrived in Perth. I joined Cott and stayed with them for a number of years after I moved, when I joined another SLSC closer to home. I was a member but not living at Cott in 1988. It wasn't in the water for three days. I did talk with the club guys, mostly older retired, who were on the beach that day and saw the Fiat. They talked about it for up to a year after that I can remember. They talked about how it was impossible for the Fiat to have entered the ocean and talked about it having to be disposed of by boat and car crushers, which I listened to but couldn't comprehend. If I had seen the damage to the car, or a picture of it, I may have taken them more seriously. I think if the image of the car was published at the time and not 12 years later, many more people would have been asking questions. I've independently calculated the huge amount of force it would taken to cause that damage (using a control if you remember).

Was it really 12 years before they released pics of the car???
Unbelievable!


Bit of a WAPOL theme :
*12 years before releasing JR's CCTV to public
*12 years before releasing photos of JC's car being rescued.





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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[krypton lee]

Is there any chance of SS body already being found since the arrest but held from the public ??

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

They did pull the Fiat onto the wheels before they winched it over the sand and probably onto a larger truck.

Does anyone know what the blob under the Fiat is on this image? It's very similar to the blurring that occurred in Jane R cctv footage.

Good point IC
Maybe WAPOL insisted media blur that bottom left area AND blur the number plate.
Looks like pre-Photoshop.....
Maybe number plate got blurred to prevent anyone recognising the car on TV as belonging to their family member or friend. Like before family was notified. But this wouldn't make sense if pics of car only released 12 years later.
Was it actually JC's car?
_________________________

I know, the grey blob is a grey ghost! lol Cousin Malcolm lol

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Is there any chance of SS body already being found since the arrest but held from the public ??

Not sure.
But HUGE news like that would be difficult to suppress - even with suppression orders.

 

[Eaglette]

Spooks - here's another one to add to your list:

WAPOL theme:

* 13/14 years before examining the car bench seat cover & material vacuumed from the footwell from the Old Ute (in the Hayley Dodd murder/mystery) - Unexamined until September 2013. Hayley went missing in 1999.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/wa/a/37391469/murder-trial-after-wa-teen-vanished-in-99/

How dreadful. No words. Made a few mistakes! - critical errors I believe from WAPOL.

Was it really 12 years before they released pics of the car???
Unbelievable!


Bit of a WAPOL theme :
*12 years before releasing JR's CCTV to public
*12 years before releasing photos of JC's car being rescued.





............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks - here's another one to add to your list:

WAPOL theme:

* 13/14 years before examining the car bench seat cover & material vacuumed from the footwell from the Old Ute (in the Hayley Dodd murder/mystery) - Unexamined until September 2013. Hayley went missing in 1999.

How dreadful. No words. Made a few mistakes! - critical errors I believe from WAPOL.

Wow

Agreed. No words [emoji55]


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks - here's another one to add to your list:

WAPOL theme:

* 13/14 years before examining the car bench seat cover & material vacuumed from the footwell from the Old Ute (in the Hayley Dodd murder/mystery) - Unexamined until September 2013. Hayley went missing in 1999.

How dreadful. No words. Made a few mistakes! - critical errors I believe from WAPOL.

Another one:

Andrew Mallard spent nearly 12 years in jail after being wrongly convicted for murder!
Took WAPOL all this time to realise, or admit to, making that mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Mallard

 

[petedavo.au]

No, not according to The West Australian July 8th 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped, ...She did not go home to collect her wallet which contained a small amount of cash and all her credit cards (no mention of licence)

…19 days after Miss Cutler was last seen detectives admit they have no clue to the Fremantle brunette’s mysterious disappearance…

Her two tone 1968 Fiat 125 was found two days later floating in the surf at Cottesloe beach.

· Miss Cutler disappeared without apparently taking anything from her wardrobe in her Fremantle flat.
· She had no money when she vanished. She did not go home to collect her wallet which contained a small amount of case and all her credit cards (no mention of licence) …
· Miss Cutler’s bank account has been untouched since her disappearance.

Family members are convinced she did not take her own life…and they are adamant that if still alive and not being held captive somewhere she would not sit by and simply watch such a major effort to find her…

Miss Cutler wore a black evening dress to the function. It had a high-necked collar with gold buttons on the right lapel. She wore glossy black shoes and black stockings.

At 12.30am on Monday June 20[SUP]th[/SUP] Miss Cutler left the party, saying she was going home.

She and another woman walked to the hotel car park – used by staff and guests.

Miss Cutler walked alone to her car and was seen standing at the passenger door.

Detectives do not know the route taken by the Fiat sedan when it left the hotel.

They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on, the driver’s window down and the driver’s door open…

The detectives are still interested in a call to the West Australian newspaper from a woman claiming to be Miss Cutler. The call was made after her father told a press conference he believed she was dead. The caller spoke to a reporter…

CAR

Miss Cutler did not smoke and was not a regular drinker.

“Unfortunately, we have got to the stage where – after interviewing hundreds of people – we find ourselves no better off that when we first saw the car in the water,” Det Sgt Katich said…

Source: The West Australian July 9th 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped

canningvale, The Commotion is mentioned in this article that Innerchild posted:
Here's a blow up.
"Heard a scream on Monday morning"
"Brawl involving young people"

Edit.
Didn't realise Innerchild replied. I was occupied watching the live broadcast from LIGO about the gravity waves, and also catching up with the verification of the deaths of Abu Sayyaf terrorist leaders Isnilon Hapilon and Omarkhayam Maute in Marawi. So was a bit preoccupied tonight.
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[krypton lee]

Not sure.
But HUGE news like that would be difficult to suppress - even with suppression orders.

Yeah, Just something that crossed my mind.

Its been a almost a year now since BE arrest , surely there must be some big developments in the case kept from the general public e.g like the how the found the car owned by the accused during the time of the killings and started to forensically test it , I wonder what they found ??!!

 

[ApplePie80]

...Does anyone know what the blob under the Fiat is on this image? It's very similar to the blurring that occurred in Jane R cctv footage.

My bet is on it being roof carpet laid out to dry. This would have been dislodged given the state of the chassis. There's also what appear to be a pattern of fitting holes (white dots) along it.

 

[petedavo.au]

Is there any chance of SS body already being found since the arrest but held from the public ??

Not unless it was in the last week or so. There'd be too many non police officers involved in the searching, recovery, transport, the morgue etc etc, for such a fact not to become common knowledge after a while.
Other things yeah, because not so many outsiders would know.

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[Occula]

Oh My God...I've finally done it! Woot woot :happydance:
Have read every thread and finally caught up...Been lurking for a long while and joined when the arrest hit the papers...So proud of myself lol
So Hello Sleuthers :newhere: Nice to meet you all
Would love to join the convo but am just too tired atm...so will catch you soon...Cheers

 

[janwa]

Yeah, Just something that crossed my mind.

Its been a almost a year now since BE arrest , surely there must be some big developments in the case kept from the general public e.g like the how the found the car owned by the accused during the time of the killings and started to forensically test it , I wonder what they found ??!!

Once the police had the DNA through the familial DNA connection and brainstormed the possible suspects in the family they would have checked current and previous vehicles owned and back tracked who they were sold to. Quickly done by logging on to vehicle licencing records.

 

[janwa]

My bet is on it being roof carpet laid out to dry. This would have been dislodged given the state of the chassis. There's also what appear to be a pattern of fitting holes (white dots) along it.

Hadn't thought of that.
My immediate notion was that sprayed on undercoating seal that was popular around that time had detached itself.