Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Bunnie]

I wonder if the accused CSK left his 2 alleged murder victims out in the open, i.e. NOT buried, because he knew that sunlight, rain, and water can degrade DNA samples????

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"....DNA must be in perfect condition before it is of any real use in a criminal investigation.
Leo Freeney: Well first of all, we start off with the perfect sample, and I'll state that say a bloodstain was shed on a handkerchief, and the handkerchief was kept in a cupboard, out of sunlight and it was dry, the DNA in that sample would be viable for thousands of years, and you'd be able to get a full profile from it.
If that handkerchief was left exposed to sunlight for a day or so, the DNA would be more than likely inactivated, and that's because of the action of the UV light in sunlight. One of the ways we decontaminate our cabinets is by the use of UV light. We turn it on overnight when we're not using it, and that gets rid of all extraneous DNA. So UV light can burn your skin, it can burn DNA.
Now when you get other circumstances such as rain, rain will wash it away obviously. If it's exposed to the elements; if you've got a human body and tropical weather, any surface DNA that's present from say a perpetrator, would quickly degenerate in sunlight, and would also degenerate under the influence of bacteria which feed on protein, which feed on DNA.
If there was semen in the vagina of the dead body, it would tend to last longer than anything that was left on the skin, that was exposed to the elements, but would eventually succumb to the bacterial degradation.

Gerald Tooth: What sort of time line are you talking about in those sort of circumstances, a body left exposed to the elements? How long would DNA evidence left on that body or in that body, be viable for?
Leo Freeney: Now the DNA found on a body would probably not be viable for longer than a day I'd say, if it was blood; if it was semen, longer. Depending on the environmental conditions, it would depend on whether it was raining, it would depend on how hot it was. You can think of it in terms of this: if you can spoil food, the conditions which will spoil food and make it unsuitable for eating, will also spoil DNA, because DNA after all, is a biological entity and will degrade just the same as all other biogical entities. So if ever you freeze food, it will last a very long time; if you dry food it will last for a very long time, and that's exactly the same for DNA.
Gerald Tooth: Leo Freeney.
In Perth there were no fresh crime scene samples to be snap frozen in the forensic laboratory.
Both bodies in this case were left exposed to the elements for long periods of time. Nearly eight weeks in Jane Rimmer's case and nearly three in Ciara Glennon's. During both those times it had rained heavily.
The police were not left with much. "
BBM
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ge-of-our-convictions---the-claremont/3473202

I had always thought he left the victims out in the open as he was very confident about there being no connection what so ever between him and the victims.

This is why I think he didn't actually ever talk to his victims in the bar or club on the night he abducted them. He hunted in a social circle totally removed from his own so that he would not ever be recognized by anyone in the area. He coveted the 'rich' girls because it's what he couldn't have. They were easy targets with their entitled bulletproof attitude to life. (False sense of security being in Claremont )

IMHO

 

[Canning Vale]

Spooks put me onto it. I've felt ill since I read it. As his mate says " A kick about fella"

VS claimed he was sleep walking whence kicking his parents to death with his steel-capped boots. I didn't think anyone slept with their boots on!

 

[Canning Vale]

Studio7 was an extremely popular place in its time. .. but i would hardly call it a nightclub. It was a male strip club and nearly every hens night in Perth found there way there at some point.

Bunnie,

You're thinking of what the club does nowadays. I'm thinking of the venue which was in Hardy Rd or Belmont Av. Back in the late 1970s there wasn't any male strippers when I went there. I wouldn't have gone in there. Honestly! Posted in jest.....

 

[Pandit]

Steel toes aren't what I imagine cab drivers wear either but, he had them on apparently. Most of the details of the crime and subsequent appeals are detailed in here, it's quite shocking.


THE STATE OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA -v- SILICH [2011] WASCA 135 (28 June 2011)


http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s.../2011/135.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=silich

Hope I haven't missed anything and have doubled up.

VS claimed he was sleep walking whence kicking his parents to death with his steel-capped boots. I didn't think anyone slept with their boots on!

 

[janwa]

Does anyone know who owns the OBH?

Stanley James Pty Ltd as in Stanley James Quinliven at least from 2000.

 

[Canning Vale]

Did WAPOL keep or discard the DNA samples taken from taxi drivers???????


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

My guess is that the DNA is barcoded or numbered and registered onto a database. I suppose there's a state data base, an Australian DB and an international one. Does anyone on here actually know how that works?

 

[petedavo.au]

A while back someone suggested there are some journalists who cover court cases and tweet throughout with updates. Can anyone recall who these journalists are? And does anyone know if they will be covering the trial?... might be time I finally worked out how to use Twitter!!! Thanks

Yes, I posted about the court reporters on Twitter back a few threads ago. You can follow me, and I'll retweet them when they start tweeting from the court room.
Take a look at Peter Davidson (@petedavo_au): https://twitter.com/petedavo_au

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[janwa]

My guess is that the DNA is barcoded or numbered and registered onto a database. I suppose there's a state data base, an Australian DB and an international one. Does anyone on here actually know how that works?

They were given on the understanding that they would not be used for any other case. So if Mr Plod came knocking on the door to arrest you saying they had found your DNA at a crime scene and you had never been charged for any other crime (where they had taken a DNA sample) they would be in big trouble.They can't keep your booze/drug tests if you come up clean. I bet they have files of old cases that were matched to DNA they took at the time, but until an unrelated charge comes up they can't action them.

 

[petedavo.au]

Just wondering if this incarcerated taxi driver VS has/had any connections to the accused BRE?


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

I'm wondering where has was on the night that Kerry Turner disappeared.

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[Bunnie]

Bunnie,

You're thinking of what the club does nowadays. I'm thinking of the venue which was in Hardy Rd or Belmont Av. Back in the late 1970s there wasn't any male strippers when I went there. I wouldn't have gone in there. Honestly! Posted in jest.....

Lol... it's been a ladies only place for many decades.😁😁😁😁 was definitely a strip joint back CSK days. It's still there in Belmont Ave.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks,
I’m very curious to know if you think Claremont today is basically the same kind of town as in the 90s. I don’t mean just because of the effect of the CSK. I guess also I mean Perth as a whole. I only lived there between 2006-13 and was only 8 years old at the time of the crimes so I don’t remember the 90s well. I’m guessing Perth as a whole is a little less isolated now and like everywhere more globalised and more multicultural.

Thinking about my answer.....



............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[petedavo.au]

Lol... it's been a ladies only place for many decades.[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16] was definitely a strip joint back CSK days. It's still there in Belmont Ave.

No, it closed some time ago. Furniture shop for a while, and a Chinese restaurant. Up for sale again I believe.
Former partner's sister was a regular. I worked with a cop once who's twin brother was a fireman, but was a stripper there.

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[DRT]

Welcome. Although I had an Motorola CDMA flip phone back in 94, not many people had mobile phones until Nokia brought out the 5110 & 6110 in 1997 and Telstra started giving away phones on their 2G digital network mobile plans.
Coverage was crap though. You'd just have to drive out to Wellard or Ellington and you'd have no coverage back in those days.
https://www.telstrawholesale.com.au...echnology-&-trends/mobile-history-part-2.html
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If the accused did have a mobile phone back then (and it's highly likely he'd have been an early adopter of the new technology given his profession and employer) - either work issued or private - it would be possible to examine records from that time to determine which cell towers he 'pinged' off and when. Possibly identify correlation between his location, locations girls went missing or were assaulted, discovery sites, as well as indicate other unusual travel routes at odd hours, interstate trips etc. I'm sure it would have been one of the first things both the police and Telstra checked. Huge potential evidentiary and alibi-busting value.

While I don't think technology at the time allowed accurate recording of where a person was, it may be an additional factor that perhaps the bodies were buried in areas outside of mobile phone coverage areas. This may have prevented someone associating the accused him with the areas the bodies were found. Inside knowledge of Telstra would help for coverage areas.

 

[Innerchild]

Steel toes aren't what I imagine cab drivers wear either but, he had them on apparently. Most of the details of the crime and subsequent appeals are detailed in here, it's quite shocking.


THE STATE OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA -v- SILICH [2011] WASCA 135 (28 June 2011)


http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s.../2011/135.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=silich

Hope I haven't missed anything and have doubled up.

Justice John McKechnie initially imposed a life prison term on Silich, but set a minimum term of 15 years... The Court of Appeal today dismissed Silich's application and instead allowed the state's cross-appeal, extending his minimum prison term by four years, taking the sentence to 19 years.

Does anyone else think 15 years for two violent killings was lenient? He did get 4 extra years on appeal but still... Murders occurred in April 2008, so his minimum would have expired April 2017. Does anyone know if he is still in prison or did he get out in the minimum time?

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/j...cked-his-parents-to-death-20110628-1goit.html

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

think they were kept on file for the case, i don't know if they entered on the database.

As for those trying to connect the parent killer taxi driver (impulse crime, anger explosion, heat of the moment) with CSK (orgsnised, planned, premeditated),personally i think you are trying to connect dots that are just not there.

Just because it appears that VS killed his parents in an impulsive and explosive moment doesn't mean that he hadn't committed other violent crimes in the past.

VS killed his parents by stomping on their heads until they were dead - any person capable of killing their own parents in such a violent manner IMO is also capable of other violent crimes.

PLUS WAPOL were convinced the CSK was a taxi driver for many many years.

IMO The point of contention would be whether VS was working as a taxi driver in 1997 when the DNA samples were taken from Perth's taxi driving population????

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

While I don't think technology at the time allowed accurate recording of where a person was, it may be an additional factor that perhaps the bodies were buried in areas outside of mobile phone coverage areas. This may have prevented someone associating the accused him with the areas the bodies were found. Inside knowledge of Telstra would help for coverage areas.

Good points DRT

 

[Pandit]

Silich's brother had recently died of an overdose when he murdered his parents, drugs were found at his house through the investigation and looking at arrest pictures compared to those taken at sentencing, he'd put on imo about 25 kgs, possibly he may have been using amphetamines. Also curious if he'd always had that scruffy biker look with a long single plait and bushy beard, he was patched with a 1%er MC and the reason this taxi driver was wearing steel toe boots was because he'd ridden to his parents house on his bike.

Or did he grow his hair and beard as a disguise post '90's CSK investigation.

IMO he probably has nothing to do with the girls murders but he's pretty interesting.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/silich-gets-life-in-jail-for-murdering-parents-20100416-sj0m.html

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

test post - my signature has disappeared ?????

 

[Innerchild]

Hello everyone! After lurking here since the arrest of BE I finally decided to sign up. I would just like to say I’m overawed by the detail and links and theories provided by the users here! It’s made the time fly by at work reading through them all LOL.
The reason this case is fascinating to me, I moved from the UK to work as a sports coach at Christ Church Grammar school in 2006, I had never heard about this case before I got there, but even 10 years after the events, it was very widely talked about it in the area and Western Suburbs in general. These suburbs I found to be very clique, especially in the private school circuit, so everyone knew someone who knew the victims parents etc. I lived in Claremont and Mosman Park between 2006-2013 and was fascinated by the case, I remember vividly when Crime Investigation Australia released the notorious MM tapes. Living in Mosman Park, I was also struck by the slightly odd vibes there, generally a very nice area but came across some very strange people. Interesting to me the link with Mosman Park and some events in the 90s, Pamela Lawrence and SS trying to take a taxi there etc.
Anyhow I since moved to NZ where I live now, and could not believe when I heard of the arrest!! It made the news here actually.
sorry for such a long intro post! Haha but I have a couple of questions. Am I right in saying that Claremont from the time of the murders in 96 and 97 did not change in layout at all up until 2009 ish with the building of the Claremont Quarter? The other thought I had out of curiosity, was it known if any of the three girls in Claremont had mobile phones on them? And how common was it in 1996 for people of that age to have a mobile phone?
Thanks for your time! 😃

Hi Nicky, One of the biggest changes I think would be at Christ Church Grammer School (CCGS). The old design and tech building as taken down from the corner of Stirling Hwy and Queenscliffe and rebuilt. Do you know when that was? That is very close, and on the same side of the road, to where Ciara was last seen. Did the teachers who were there at the time talk about if it may have been possible for her to be abducted by someone hiding there or at the Church over the road on Queenscliffe?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Damn!