For the Fiat to be pushed into the pylon by the waves it would have to be dropped further out to sea that the pylon. You've said yourself if it was on the sand it wouldn't have been able to go out to sea, which is correct. From reports it was 50 m from groyne, and that would mean 100 m from pylon.
Originally Posted by meticulously
50 metres is one of the top end distances reported, iirc other reports had it at a lesser distance, (perhaps as low as 35 metres? Unconfirmed atm) Even in a calm ocean i dont think the car could roll into the ocean that far (35m) Let alone 50m is not a possibility imo. The 2nd and 3rd nights had reasonably calm enough ocean conditions . The waves possibly inconsistent enough, so its possible that at times there was gaps between waves .To roll unmanned / unwomanned seems less likely to have happened than some other theories such as if a driver Drove the car out into the ocean .
The first night when JC disappeared mon 12:30am was when waves (commonly called) 2.5 metres - 3metres were consistently breaking on the cott beach . Its unlikely that it could be driven out into the waves on the 1st night imo . It seems that waves push cars in, rather than suck cars out .
Thats taking into consideration the shape of cottesloe beach as well . Links have been provided about the waves
.
Jmo
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh.../page89&highlight=claremont+serial+killer+#15
Sea was reported to be 1 m on a 3 m swells with SW winds at 10 to 15 knots easing to 10 knots by late morning. Cott with a SW or WSW wind is protected by groyne and in the swell shadow of Rottnest.
Similar sea, swell and wind conditions occurred between June 1st and 4th 2017 and looked very similar to the actual conditions published in the retrieved car photos.
Live webcam Cottesloe Beach June 4 2017 8.20 am www.mybeach.com
Perth City Coast wave and wind forecast for 3rd and 4th June 2017
8.00 am on 4th June 3 m swell, 17 period.
For the Fiat to be pushed into the pylon by the waves it would have to be dropped further out to sea that the pylon. You've said yourself if it was on the sand it wouldn't have been able to go out to sea, which is correct. From reports it was 50 m from groyne, and that would mean 100 m from pylon.
Originally Posted by meticulously
50 metres is one of the top end distances reported, iirc other reports had it at a lesser distance, (perhaps as low as 35 metres? Unconfirmed atm) Even in a calm ocean i dont think the car could roll into the ocean that far (35m) Let alone 50m is not a possibility imo. The 2nd and 3rd nights had reasonably calm enough ocean conditions . The waves possibly inconsistent enough, so its possible that at times there was gaps between waves .To roll unmanned / unwomanned seems less likely to have happened than some other theories such as if a driver Drove the car out into the ocean .
The first night when JC disappeared mon 12:30am was when waves (commonly called) 2.5 metres - 3metres were consistently breaking on the cott beach . Its unlikely that it could be driven out into the waves on the 1st night imo . It seems that waves push cars in, rather than suck cars out .
Thats taking into consideration the shape of cottesloe beach as well . Links have been provided about the waves.
Jmo
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh.../page89&highlight=claremont+serial+killer+#15
Sea was reported to be 1 m on a 3 m swells with SW winds at 10 to 15 knots easing to 10 knots by late morning. Cott with a SW or WSW wind is protected by groyne and in the swell shadow of Rottnest.
Similar sea, swell and wind conditions occurred between June 1st and 4th 2017 and looked very similar to the actual conditions published in the retrieved car photos.
Live webcam Cottesloe Beach June 4 2017 8.20 am www.mybeach.com
Perth City Coast wave and wind forecast for 3rd and 4th June 2017
8.00 am on 4th June 3 m swell, 17 period.
Not sure, maybe not far at all! It's reported in the following and I can't find where I read it was found south of groyne at mo.
Missing Julie: Murder Seems Certain. Lack of Clues make police fear the worst.
... Julie, 22 was last seen at her car in the hotel car park at 12.30 am on June 20.
About Midday that day beach walkers found a car seat in the surf at Cottesloe. It was handed in to rangers who thought it was just another piece of flotsam. ...
Source: Perth newspaper late June 1988
That film is good thanks. Does anyone know whereabouts the Parmelia's staff car park was? I think there was a Wilson Car park nearby.
Yes. The staff car park has now got a building upon it. It had an entrance between Mill St and Mercantile Lane on the Esplanade. It was on that corner behind the Parmelia bordering Mercantile Lane and the Esplanade. Some of it was undercover, most of it was not.
Back in 1988 the Parmelia Hotel, Mill St, was within a fairly quiet part of Perth. Other than the Parmelia there wasn’t much else open that late at night. I don’t know if the Parmelia had a nightclub. I think there was a ballroom, which held functions.
Yes IC ,
News Reports seem to suggest not very far south .
Just read through months of JC related posts
A few snippets from previous threads .
Agree it should be that simple, but reports especially the last one on 8th July 1988 says they don't know how it got there but the lights and ignition were turned on when it entered the water. The back seat was found two days before the car entered the water (unless you are convinced the car hid for two days). It would have been easier to dispose of car anywhere else, but it did end up in ocean at Cott and maybe how it got there is not so important.
Sand drifts covered the access road to groyne, and there was an access driving past the boatshed and making a sharp turn south, Reports said there was a one metre drop from the promenade to the sand.No police reports mentioned John St and besides the steps from what I can remember this access was blocked with a locked swing gate.
Fiat weighed 1.150 ton dry and would be heavier once it reached water, and had an estimated bouancy factor of 10 (similar to a 100kg person having 700kg on top of them). It could not have washed out IMO, any waves and tide would be pushing it into the shore. Photos of a 4WD (car V ocean) show a car fitted with snorkel exhaust and driven fast into ocean, not to be able to make it more than 5 m.
As I've said the water wasn't deep, my estimate would be 2 to 3 metres deep between pylon and groyne, almost always clearly see bottom and overhead images show the ocean bottom very clearly. I think it was seen within hours of it entering water. I think they wanted it found, so the lights were on. There is a multitude of people using the beach. Clubbies don't sit in the club, they are surf club users like myself who would swim, ski or board paddle every day before work, bobbies swam in the middle of beach, many joggers used the beach and the paid life guard or beach inspector can be confirmed by Council and would be on the beach by 6 or 7 am every week day.
The mybeach link shows the current paid lifeguard hours and also mentions The more protected southern corner usually has lower waves and weak currents and is popular with families and children. This is also very good for showing live camera vision of the ocean which you can compare to published sea and swell conditions. https://www.mybeach.com.au/beach/cottesloe-beach/
The reports that I've seen say the car was found 35 m out to sea and 50 metres away (north) of groyne. No reports even mentioned any damage to the car or showed the picture until 12 years later. I never considered there may have been an accident and it was a former sluether that said they were told in PM's from another former sleuther (P*****) that we are not allowed to discuss, that there was an accident. They also suggested that the bag of JC's clothes was taken back the next morning to the mall where it seemed to get put in lost property, and left there on purpose. Whether true or not evidence on the car, not including the crush damage to roof, looks like there was an accident. All my opinion.
State Library of WA 1986 Cottesloe Beach.
Light poles with floodlights seen in background on groyne
As someone recently suggested, perhaps the BLF slipped off the side road. After having a close look at the Indiana Tea Rooms, and the service road to the north, that's in line with the pylon.
