Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #18

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Quote iC:
"It wasn't deep, there was a floodlight on the water, many people used the ocean every day, joggers, clubbies, paid beach inspector on duty every week day on beach in 4WD." unquote .

If it wasn't deep then how did a boat get there....
Why do news reports say that paid beach inspectors didn't work in winter ?

QUOTE:"Waves average about 1 m up the beach and usually maintain a steep beach with an attached 50 m wide bar. During winter and following higher waves rips usually commence about 100 m up the beach together with permanent rips against the reefs. The reefs in particular induce stronger currents and deeper rip channels and should be avoided by swimmers."

https://www.mybeach.com.au/beach/cottesloe-beach/

Did BLF go for a night swim and get caught in a rip current?


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Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
JC car BLF: Here's some Google Maps screen shots illustrating the distance of 50m that MSM reports as the distance BLF found off the beach. I acknowledge that there are mixed reports of whether BLF was found to be 35m or 50m out from the beach, but I'm assuming you can all guess what 35m looks like given the 50m distance.

Pic #1 and #2 - I've included two measurements, first straight out from the promenade and second from the water line (as shown on day of this satellite pic).

All screenshots of Google Maps.
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Cottesloe Beach Pylon Part 1: Years ago swimmers could climb up onto the pylon and then dive off. This activity has been banned for years due to danger and liability issues.
"We have had situations where people were diving (from the pylon) into water one metre deep."
BBM
https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/cottesloe-pylon-restored-but-diving-era-ends-ng-ya-232856

Seems Cott Beach waters can get sand bars built up at certain times of the year. Therefore seems too risky for larger fishing boats to enter the area.
 
Cottesloe Beach Pylon Part 1: Years ago swimmers could climb up onto the pylon and then dive off. This activity has been banned for years due to danger and liability issues.
"We have had situations where people were diving (from the pylon) into water one metre deep."
https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/cottesloe-pylon-restored-but-diving-era-ends-ng-ya-232856

Seems Cott Beach waters can get sand bars built up at certain times of the year. Therefore seems too risky for larger fishing boats to enter the area.
Cott Beach Pylon Part 2: Other times the water depth near the pylon is around 3m.

"During major storm activity on 21–22 May 2009, the spike was knocked off the pylon.[SUP][18][/SUP] However this is not the first time this has occurred:[SUP][19][/SUP] during storms in 1995, the spike was also knocked over. It then remained on the bottom of the ocean in approximately 3 metres of water until an unnamed group removed the 800-kilogram (1,764 lb) structure using nothing but wood and rope."
BBM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottesloe,_Western_Australia
 
Did BLF go for a night swim and get caught in a rip current?
............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Are we getting carried away with our theories it had to be something simpler.

JC meets someone or is abducted

Car is left at Cottesloe

Car is driven,pushed then rolled on it's side into the water by group of revellers.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/c746236f5d6601959760162b1518ac4e
 
Are we getting carried away with our theories it had to be something simpler.

JC meets someone or is abducted

Car is left at Cottesloe

Car is driven,pushed then rolled on it's side into the water by group of revellers.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/c746236f5d6601959760162b1518ac4e

Agree with you that the simple explanation is best. However IMO the perpetrator dumped the Fiat into the sea, and not a group of revellers.
One would hope out of a 'group' of revellers, that one individual would've come forward or perhaps made an anonymous phone call to WAPOL to explain how the Fiat ended up in the ocean.
JMO
 
You are forgetting the human condition

a. Not everyone listens to, reads, watches the news
b. Is prepared to report if they think they could be in trouble for the damage.
c. Has a concience

Web Sleuths are a rare commodity and how many of them are reading to keep one step ahead
 
Cottesloe Beach Pylon Part 1: Years ago swimmers could climb up onto the pylon and then dive off. This activity has been banned for years due to danger and liability issues.
"We have had situations where people were diving (from the pylon) into water one metre deep."
BBM
https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/cottesloe-pylon-restored-but-diving-era-ends-ng-ya-232856

Seems Cott Beach waters can get sand bars built up at certain times of the year. Therefore seems too risky for larger fishing boats to enter the area.

I remember days when at low tide you could touch the bottom near the pylon and the diving off the pylon times
 
Ok. How about us Sleuthers compile a list in here of who has been officially named by LE as a suspect in the Claremont killings.
IMO, only quotes from official LE reps count.
IMO Media reports from unnamed sources do not count.
Neither do inferred names of suspects from any reports whatsoever, including from official LE statements, count.

So it is 100% clear on who can and can't be discussed or referred to as a potential suspect.
And which of any of ours or other posters previous posts we should go back and attempt to self report, edit (where possible), or report to flag mention of potential or claimed suspects that have not been officially named as suspects.
So that DW get's the exact same treatment as any other not officially named by LE alleged or claimed suspects in the Claremont killings.

Also, since BRE has not been officially named by LE as a suspect in anything but those crimes which he has been charged with, I assume that we should also not be inferring or speculating on any other potential crimes that BRE might have comitted until BRE has been officially named by LE as a suspect in those individual cases. Including that of Sarah Spiers and Julie Cutler.
 
Then... In one fell swoop... B4U silences the crowd.
 
He hasnt been announced by LE as the CSK, which IS the term they have attached to 3 perhaps 4 of these murders....Seeing that he has been charged with 2 of them & police have always believed they are connected, I think its fair to speculate regardless that we're not aware of any evidence they could use to have him charged nor that proves hes is connected to the others. I think that until LE come out and say that they were wrong about any connection between SS or JC, the possibility is therefore open to discussion.
 
Are we getting carried away with our theories it had to be something simpler.

JC meets someone or is abducted

Car is left at Cottesloe

Car is driven,pushed then rolled on it's side into the water by group of revellers.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/c746236f5d6601959760162b1518ac4e
Agree with you that the simple explanation is best. However IMO the perpetrator dumped the Fiat into the sea, and not a group of revellers.
One would hope out of a 'group' of revellers, that one individual would've come forward or perhaps made an anonymous phone call to WAPOL to explain how the Fiat ended up in the ocean.
JMO
Let's simplify it further.
Car drives down southern access road
Makes right hand turn to park at northern end of promenade.
Fails to see edge of concrete on the passenger side
Car goes over side landing on passenger side.
Driver gets out.
Wave comes in -car rolls onto roof.
Another few waves and car ends where it's found.
The rip takes flotsam debris way out, some of which washes back further along the coast.

Now we just have to figure out who drove it down there.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 
Are we getting carried away with our theories it had to be something simpler.

JC meets someone or is abducted

Car is left at Cottesloe

Car is driven,pushed then rolled on it's side into the water by group of revellers.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/c746236f5d6601959760162b1518ac4e

Agree it should be that simple, but reports especially the last one on 8th July 1988 says they don't know how it got there but the lights and ignition were turned on when it entered the water. The back seat was found two days before the car entered the water (unless you are convinced the car hid for two days). It would have been easier to dispose of car anywhere else, but it did end up in ocean at Cott and maybe how it got there is not so important.

Sand drifts covered the access road to groyne, and there was an access driving past the boatshed and making a sharp turn south, Reports said there was a one metre drop from the promenade to the sand.No police reports mentioned John St and besides the steps from what I can remember this access was blocked with a locked swing gate.

Fiat weighed 1.150 ton dry and would be heavier once it reached water, and had an estimated bouancy factor of 10 (similar to a 100kg person having 700kg on top of them). It could not have washed out IMO, any waves and tide would be pushing it into the shore. Photos of a 4WD (car V ocean) show a car fitted with snorkel exhaust and driven fast into ocean, not to be able to make it more than 5 m.

As I've said the water wasn't deep, my estimate would be 2 to 3 metres deep between pylon and groyne, almost always clearly see bottom and overhead images show the ocean bottom very clearly. I think it was seen within hours of it entering water. I think they wanted it found, so the lights were on. There is a multitude of people using the beach. Clubbies don't sit in the club, they are surf club users like myself who would swim, ski or board paddle every day before work, bobbies swam in the middle of beach, many joggers used the beach and the paid life guard or beach inspector can be confirmed by Council and would be on the beach by 6 or 7 am every week day.

The mybeach link shows the current paid lifeguard hours and also mentions The more protected southern corner usually has lower waves and weak currents and is popular with families and children. This is also very good for showing live camera vision of the ocean which you can compare to published sea and swell conditions. https://www.mybeach.com.au/beach/cottesloe-beach/



The reports that I've seen say the car was found 35 m out to sea and 50 metres away (north) of groyne. No reports even mentioned any damage to the car or showed the picture until 12 years later. I never considered there may have been an accident and it was a former sluether that said they were told in PM's from another former sleuther (P*****) that we are not allowed to discuss, that there was an accident. They also suggested that the bag of JC's clothes was taken back the next morning to the mall where it seemed to get put in lost property, and left there on purpose. Whether true or not evidence on the car, not including the crush damage to roof, looks like there was an accident. All my opinion.

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State Library of WA 1986 Cottesloe Beach.

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Light poles with floodlights seen in background on groyne
 

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The southern side looks pretty good for access to the beach too, I'm not sure if all those tyre tracks are from a couple of different vehicles or someone's been doing doughnuts. Also, look out for pedestrians.

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The groyne.

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Has anyone got a better copy of the attached article?

I have found a translation of the article which mentions the below - however would like to verify:

"The kimono is the first good clue the police have been given in recent sex attacks in the area.
Det-Sgt Max Kiernan said the man apparently walked into the house..."

If the above is correct - what were the recent sex attacks in the area? Does this refer to Huntingdale?

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Kimono clue to a brutal killing. Clue on kimono left at the Huntingdale attack was a linked to the brutal killing of Victoria Clark in September 1987.

"Recent sex attacks in Huntingdale" was referred to in the Vanessa Devlin (murdered 17 June 1988) reports as the Southside rapist attacks.

The West Australian June 18[SUP]th,[/SUP] 1988, page 1. By Steve Lague. New Southside murder hunt.

Police find partially clothed body of Vanessa Roberta Devlin 23 years old.

Certain similarities to other attacks by south side rapist.

Found on floor of a sleepout at the rear of an Albany Highway house. House is 100m from highway and no close neighbours with a railway line running alongside.

South side rapist may be responsible for more than 16 attacks on women in the past 2 years. They include the murder of Victoria Clark aged 30. ...
 
Hi Innerchild,

No skipper, ever would risk a working fishing boat with a crane worth anywhere up from about $150K? going over reef and bar in the middle of the night to dump a half crushed fiat. I wouldn't even take a catamaran in over it.




Agree it should be that simple, but reports especially the last one on 8th July 1988 says they don't know how it got there but the lights and ignition were turned on when it entered the water. The back seat was found two days before the car entered the water (unless you are convinced the car hid for two days). It would have been easier to dispose of car anywhere else, but it did end up in ocean at Cott and maybe how it got there is not so important.

Sand drifts covered the access road to groyne, and there was an access driving past the boatshed and making a sharp turn south, Reports said there was a one metre drop from the promenade to the sand.No police reports mentioned John St and besides the steps from what I can remember this access was blocked with a locked swing gate.

Fiat weighed 1.150 ton dry and would be heavier once it reached water, and had an estimated bouancy factor of 10 (similar to a 100kg person having 700kg on top of them). It could not have washed out IMO, any waves and tide would be pushing it into the shore. Photos of a 4WD (car V ocean) show a car fitted with snorkel exhaust and driven fast into ocean, not to be able to make it more than 5 m.

As I've said the water wasn't deep, my estimate would be 2 to 3 metres deep between pylon and groyne, almost always clearly see bottom and overhead images show the ocean bottom very clearly. I think it was seen within hours of it entering water. I think they wanted it found, so the lights were on. There is a multitude of people using the beach. Clubbies don't sit in the club, they are surf club users like myself who would swim, ski or board paddle every day before work, bobbies swam in the middle of beach, many joggers used the beach and the paid life guard or beach inspector can be confirmed by Council and would be on the beach by 6 or 7 am every week day.

The reports that I've seen say the car was found 35 m out to sea and 50 metres away (north) of groyne. No reports even mentioned any damage to the car or showed the picture until 12 years later. I never considered there may have been an accident and it was a former sluether that said they were told in PM's from another former sleuther (P*****) that we are not allowed to discuss, that there was an accident. They also suggested that the bag of JC's clothes was taken back the next morning to the mall where it seemed to get put in lost property, and left there on purpose. Whether true or not evidence on the car, not including the crush damage to roof, looks like there was an accident. All my opinion.

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State Library of WA 1986 Cottesloe Beach.

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Light poles with floodlights seen in background on groyne
 
Hi Innerchild,

No skipper, ever would risk a working fishing boat with a crane worth anywhere up from about $150K? going over reef and bar in the middle of the night to dump a half crushed fiat. I wouldn't even take a catamaran in over it.

Where in any of the photos can you see a sand bar that could prevent a water vessel from coming between the groyne and pylon? No sand bar forms there and the mid beach reef you can see in some photos is not exposed or close to the surface. In some conditions a sandbar can form, but this is close to shore and it is where the dumpers that knock people over occur.

There is a large shallow reef to the north of the groyne, but that is around 200 m away from the groyne.

The reason I suggested fishing boat or cray boats is I have experience with them and IMO they or similar could easily bog lap between the pylon and groyne, IMO.
 
That's why people don't risk expensive vessels in water you've already said is shallow (reports of people being able to stand in the water as far out as the pylon) because you can't see the bars and reef well enough even in the day.

Innerchild, I'm open to just about anything but this would have to be absolutely the least likely scenario.

Where in any of the photos can you see a sand bar that could prevent a water vessel from coming between the groyne and pylon? No sand bar forms there and the mid beach reef you can see in some photos is not exposed or close to the surface. In some conditions a sandbar can form, but this is close to shore and it is where the dumpers that knock people over occur.

There is a large shallow reef to the north of the groyne, but that is around 200 m away from the groyne.

The reason I suggested fishing boat or cray boats is I have experience with them and IMO they or similar could easily bog lap between the pylon and groyne, IMO.
 
Alleged Killer and wannabe author on trial now for co-killing a teen with autism told court she reasearched serial killers and torture methods for her 'book'!!!!
I wonder if she ever read or joined the CSK thread???

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...ed-jemma-lilley-testifies/9076772?pfmredir=sm


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
Cottesloe Beach Pylon Part 1: Years ago swimmers could climb up onto the pylon and then dive off. This activity has been banned for years due to danger and liability issues.
"We have had situations where people were diving (from the pylon) into water one metre deep."
BBM
https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/cottesloe-pylon-restored-but-diving-era-ends-ng-ya-232856

Seems Cott Beach waters can get sand bars built up at certain times of the year. Therefore seems too risky for larger fishing boats to enter the area.
I recall seeing a man on the TV who had jumped off the pylon and it caused a spinal injury. He ended up in a wheel chair.
 
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