Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

[BReVeTTe]

Yes I see your point, but I also think of Sarah, Jane and Ciara and their families; The Birnie’s victims and their families, The Greenough Killer’s victims and their family, Hayley Dodd and her family. I think of what fear, terror and pain they all must have gone through and what their families are still going through and as a woman (who are most commonly the victims of these types of crimes most often at the hands of depraved men) I wish we still had the death penalty.

This is MOO.

Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinion in our democratic country.

yes, you're right, we're all entitled to an opinion.
FWIW, I too think of the victims and their families ... parents, partners, children, siblings, PETS, friends, work colleagues ... the void created, the broken hearts, the lost opportunities, the never ending ripple effect on communities and on society in general ; I feel every sentiment you have expressed, and more. My hatred and anger towards the perpetrators of such violence grows and grows with each day they remain undetected ; escaping justice to live what they have callously, violently deprived of another... LiFE itself.
Did i just say justice? Well, that WAS a slip.
I personally don't believe that real justice exists.
there can BE no balance to set such EVIL right ... the flip side of which brings me back to my support of ElGordo's statement so as to never forget the victims who've suffered from accusation and wrongful conviction. But to further clarify, my own view on corporal punishment - it should remain on the table as a considerable option ...to serve as a deterrent, bargaining power, and - if that fails - as a valuable source of organ harvesting.
[emoji887]

 

[Canning Vale]

Let's change the subject about capital punishment. It's only four more days until BRE has court again.

As I live in Canning Vale, I shall keep a look out for the prison van to go past. They'll probably travel along Nicholson Rd.

There will probably be a full police escort in front and behind.

 

[Owlie]

Ronald Ryan the last person to hang in Australia has been shown not to have committed the crime he hung for ... he was guilty of other crimes but nothing to justify the death penalty ... One wrong person executed is one to many , One wrong person in custody is one to many

True but one person raped or murdered is one too many in my opinion.
As I said irrefutable physical evidence (e.g. DNA, Hair, fibres, fingerprints in the victims blood - the science wasn’t available in the case you mention).
Like I said everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I err on the side of the victims and their families, not on the side of violent, predatory, sick, depraved perpetrators and I don’t apologise for that.
I won’t change your mind and you won’t change mine but we’re lucky to have the freedom to voice our differing opinions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Your comments usually provide plenty of amusement Spooky, lol.
You remind me of a very interesting poster from the early days of the CSK threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Owlie - happy to oblige!
Usually it's just me laughing at my own jokes! So thank you for letting me know that I am not alone. [emoji23][emoji317]

However I only joined WS for the very first time after the arrest. No prior log ins with a different username.

So maybe I have a twin who's equally as amusing as me!
hahahaha
🤣[emoji317]🤣[emoji23]🤣[emoji23]🤣[emoji23]🤣[emoji317][emoji317]

Edit: "amusing" meaning amusing as one can be on a thread about an alleged serial killer. No disrespect meant towards victims and their families and friends.

............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Guccigal]

If you’re referring to my post, no not regardless of guilt and irrefutable physical evidence and not for every murder; but for horrendous brutal murders, or multiple or serial murders; in my opinion.

Have you ever read about the Greenough Family Massacre and the depravity inflicted upon little girls aged 7 and 5 with an axe?

http://westaustralianvista.com/Greenough_Family_Massacre.html

Or Jill Meagher’s killer? He had an horrendous record of violence and rape of women, he was nothing more than a predator.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jill_Meagher

No I haven’t been drinking or drugging, and no I don’t hate men (I love them), and no I’m not a lesbian (not that there’s anything wrong with that) and no I’m not an ultra-feminist (not that there’s anything wrong with that); but I’m a woman sick and tired of the violence and trauma inflicted on innocent children and women by some sick, depraved men.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speaking of that sicko Bayley that killed Jill Meagher.. do you think BRE (alleged) is more this personality type, the predator who rapes and kills, just that he was better able to mask it than Bayley? It must take a lot out of you have to cover up your true self that much of the time so nothing can slip.. his ex wives must have seen or known something.. that maybe later made sense.. I just find it hard to believe that living in an intimate relationship with someone, that NOTHING raised alam bells?

 

[Akai]

Speaking of that sicko Bayley that killed Jill Meagher.. do you think BRE (alleged) is more this personality type, the predator who rapes and kills, just that he was better able to mask it than Bayley? It must take a lot out of you have to cover up your true self that much of the time so nothing can slip.. his ex wives must have seen or known something.. that maybe later made sense.. I just find it hard to believe that living in an intimate relationship with someone, that NOTHING raised alam bells?

I have wondered if we might down the track (during/after trial) hear about things from his intimate relationships and other areas of his life. The media is, thankfully, being incredibly cautious to prevent problems for the trial.

I will also be interested in which witnesses are called by the prosecution and which by the defense.

I imagine bucketloads of information about BRE will come out after it's all over (one way or another), rather like it did with Adrian Bayley. (Not suggesting what comes out will be similar or anything like that, just that there will be information.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Canning Vale]

Perhaps some of BREs ex-girlfriends have come forward and spoken to the police. They might be able to shed some light on anything a bit odd.

 

[Akai]

Don’t know if you’re a local or too young to have been around?
To those of us who lived through it, we didn’t need the media or police to tell us it was a serial killer, it was obvious.
Claremont was a small nightlife precinct, not the main nightlife hub like Northbridge.

It was quiet and thought to be safe, mostly locals and uni students, considered to be a safe crowd. What happened shocked and terrorised the whole of Perth. As a local woman who lived through it, who’d frequented the area a few years before while at UWA, 22 years later it still sends shivers up my spine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree that locals would have felt that way, but I assume police need something concrete to go on to link them. Just MO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mcfishntackle]

I agree that locals would have felt that way, but I assume police need something concrete to go on to link them. Just MO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I still wonder if Julie Cutler was his first....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Guccigal]

I have wondered if we might down the track (during/after trial) hear about things from his intimate relationships and other areas of his life. The media is, thankfully, being incredibly cautious to prevent problems for the trial.

I will also be interested in which witnesses are called by the prosecution and which by the defense.

I imagine bucketloads of information about BRE will come out after it's all over (one way or another), rather like it did with Adrian Bayley. (Not suggesting what comes out will be similar or anything like that, just that there will be information.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep I bet! All the Bayley prior history was suppressed until after the trial but I do recall some information coming out during it all? Bayley had a jury trial and was still found guilty.. there were strict suppression orders there tho.. not sure how that compares here with BRE case?

 

[meticulously]

With regard to the granting of parole, the notorious Catherine Birnie was involved in the murders of more than 3 people. Creepy Catherine has been eligible for parole umpteen times, but thankfully knocked back.

What a shame WA has abolished capital punishment!

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...1887393bfc61&usg=AOvVaw3F4f1abiGc-XgAcfHn3Ufw

If you’re referring to my post, no not regardless of guilt and irrefutable physical evidence and not for every murder; but for horrendous brutal murders, or multiple or serial murders; in my opinion.

Have you ever read about the Greenough Family Massacre and the depravity inflicted upon little girls aged 7 and 5 with an axe?

http://westaustralianvista.com/Greenough_Family_Massacre.html

Or Jill Meagher’s killer? He had an horrendous record of violence and rape of women, he was nothing more than a predator.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jill_Meagher

No I haven’t been drinking or drugging, and no I don’t hate men (I love them), and no I’m not a lesbian (not that there’s anything wrong with that) and no I’m not an ultra-feminist (not that there’s anything wrong with that); but I’m a woman sick and tired of the violence and trauma inflicted on innocent children and women by some sick, depraved men.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Owlie ,
There were 2 comments that were pro death penalty, so i made a random post .
I dont agree because the justice system is flawed. Capital punishment is inhumane and theres always been wrongful convictions.
Its quite a rare thing to see this pro-attitude on the websleuths forums .
I read a lot on websleuths but still dont see this topic raised often .
I see the opposite attitude much more where innocent people are punished.
Ive seen the Greenough axe massacre case numerous times and i mentioned it on here about a year ago that it was one of the first WA cases where DNA evidence was successfully used. Ive seen hundreds of cases and documentaries.
I have recently studied the cases of henry keogh,andrew mallard, john button,Daryl beamish,the micklebergs, lindy chamberlain and many more wrongfully convicted or who claim they are.
And then theres aboriginals in our country, many more than the poor whitefellas wrongly convicted.
I think the attitude is very wrong before its even begun because its a non compassionate attitude JmO..


"Even more startling, the investigation found it was very unlikely Curtain had placed Lynda in the water.
Lynda was found two kilometres downstream on the opposite side of the river.
Analysis of historic tidal records has shown that she would have had to have been placed on the north side of the river. Curtain had no car, and no time, to travel to the opposite side.

However, there is one fact that is even more startling.
There has never been any DNA or forensic evidence connecting Curtain to the crime. There are only discredited witness statements and that coerced confession, which was extracted without legal representation.
But it is not just the police investigation – there were also concerns about the court process, and the way the media reported sensationalistic, and false, testimony given on the stand by discredited witnesses.
If Kevin Henry, or Curtain, has spent 25 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit, how many other Aboriginal prisoners in Australia are innocent ?"

https://newmatilda.com/2017/01/12/how-many-indigenous-prisoners-in-australia-are-innocent/

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...e/news-story/7619f4d6a77d066f7384758991fb4052

 

[meticulously]

This was very early usage of dna in WA Law.

"Residents locked their doors and police worked tirelessly to find the killer.
They eventually caught Mitchell through DNA he left at the scene and a partial palm print."

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...e/news-story/24a1ba92e51ac50a10291e4b0c12851c

 

[Akai]

Yep I bet! All the Bayley prior history was suppressed until after the trial but I do recall some information coming out during it all? Bayley had a jury trial and was still found guilty.. there were strict suppression orders there tho.. not sure how that compares here with BRE case?

Yes, that's how I recall it, too. From memory some stuff came out about other charges Bayley was facing and his history and then it all went quiet because his defense lawyers started to make noise about him not getting a fair trial and suppression orders were made. Nobody wanted to screw that up. He was a monster.

I think the media are being careful here because they don't want to stuff anything up as well. Probably don't want to get it to the point of suppression orders or worse, an argument that he can't get a fair trial. It'll be fascinating - has his life been as quiet and unassuming as it seems for the last 20 years or are there going to be a lot of revelations?

Bayley was a bit different in that he was suddenly charged with other crimes after his arrest (people started coming forward after they saw his image I think). BRE has been charged with everything up front, and now SS has been linked, but there hasn't been other unknown or seemingly unrelated stuff come out of the woodwork since his arrest.

Bayley was pretty up front with his rage all the time is seemed. At the time he killed Jill Meagher he was on bail for punching a guy in Geelong while on parole. BRE seems much more contained. But the difference might be that BRE had the one partner for all those years. I think Bayley was in and out of relationships.

It does interest me that BRE's arrest came not long after he broke up with his long term partner (not long in the context for a two decade relationship).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[meticulously]

Let's change the subject about capital punishment. It's only four more days until BRE has court again.

As I live in Canning Vale, I shall keep a look out for the prison van to go past. They'll probably travel along Nicholson Rd.

There will probably be a full police escort in front and behind.

Hi Canning Vale is there somewhere you can sit/lie and wait ? If you could get photos that would be great.
Perhaps a red water balloon popping on the police van windscreen might be funny.

I dont think that the death penalty has actually ceased. Its still used in many parts of Australia and the world under a different title. The list is long and i cant imagine its not still growing.
Whatever its named, its not stopped.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_legally_executed_in_Australia

"For the first few months, prisoners gardened and cleared the bush and were allowed to hunt for food in the afternoons. But conditions deteriorated when Henry Vincent began his long reign as superintendent.
The mining of limestone and building of the prison began.
Vincent was loose with his use of the cat o' nine tails.
Prisoners were worked ruthlessly in the heat, inadequately clothed and chained together at night.
"Henry Vincent was barbaric.
He would beat prisoners, kick them," says Dr Stasiuk, the author and director of Wadjemup: Rottnest Island as a Black Prison and White Playground.
"There's evidence he got clips and ripped a prisoner's beard clean out.
Another time he beat a prisoner to death with a set of keys.
"He would hang prisoners sentenced to death in front of lore men who were about to return to the mainland, as a warning to the community that if they break the law, this is what could happen to you.
"He had no problem with shooting prisoners if they didn't do as they were told.
He chained them up at night with a long pole system. It was hell on earth."

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-25/rottnest-island-black-prison-to-white-playground/7962940

 

[Akai]

I still wonder if Julie Cutler was his first....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Personally, something doesn't sit right with me about that.

The Huntingdale attack took place in Feb 1988 (I think, I'd have to check that and I can't find the reference I read it in) and Julie Cutler disappeared in June 1988. Given how easily scared off the person in the Huntingdale attack was, and given they were eight years younger than when the Claremont killings happened (and in BRE's case only 20), would they have had the capability to carry off Cutler's, which was huge step forward in terms of crime?

Then again, maybe that was the point. That the person went away and planned things more.

I'll be interested in when exactly BRE got into his long term relationship.

Also, has the progression of ages from the Karkatta cemetery attack to the Claremont ones been noted? Karkatta was 17, SS was 18, JR was 23, CG was 27. That suggests someone getting bolder to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CaptainTurbid]

It does interest me that BRE's arrest came not long after he broke up with his long term partner (not long in the context for a two decade relationship).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve thought the same Akai. In October 2015 there was a news piece about police linking DNA found from the Karrakatta rape with Ciara Glennon http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

We are told by the media that BRE was separated from his wife approximately 12 months before arrest. I have wondered if the 2015 report may have triggered this.

Of course this is on the basis that BRE is who the police are saying he is, innocent until proven guilty and all...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Akai]

I’ve thought the same Akai. In October 2015 there was a news piece about police linking DNA found from the Karrakatta rape with Ciara Glennon http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

We are told by the media that BRE was separated from his wife approximately 12 months before arrest. I have wondered if the 2015 report may have triggered this.

Of course this is on the basis that BRE is who the police are saying he is, innocent until proven guilty and all...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was looking at it the other way around, that maybe the breakup resulted in information being given to the police (the validity of such information of course has yet to be tested and, if it exists, might turn out to be complete codswallop). I hadn't considered what you are saying. Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[meticulously]

How the Claremont serial killings changed Perth forever
Heather McNeill
10 hrs ag


"On the night she was last seen, a "bubbly and energetic" Sarah was recorded on CCTV stopping briefly and chatting to security guards as she left the club - one of them she knew quite well."

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/h...gs-changed-perth-forever-20180223-h0wkcr.html

 

[CaptainTurbid]

I was looking at it the other way around, that maybe the breakup resulted in information being given to the police (the validity of such information of course has yet to be tested and, if it exists, might turn out to be complete codswallop). I hadn't considered what you are saying. Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow I’d never thought of it your way. Interesting what different thoughts people draw from the same info.

Got me thinking, what triggered police in 2015 to look at the 95 rape or the 88 “kimono”? Perhaps the break up resulted in a tip to police about both (or more) events.

Guess we are going to find out...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Akai]

Wow I’d never thought of it your way. Interesting what different thoughts people draw from the same info.

Got me thinking, what triggered police in 2015 to look at the 95 rape or the 88 “kimono”? Perhaps the break up resulted in a tip to police about both (or more) events.

Guess we are going to find out...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It IS very interesting how that happens, isn't it? I think it often comes down to personal experience.

I was in a relationship with an awful guy once, but while I was involved with him and had feelings for him, I thought he was great and swallowed pretty much everything he told me. Then I started to feel unhappy about things and started to see the problems and one day he went too far with me and I left the relationship. After that I started seeing stuff that was going on and what I was being told in a very different light. The two perspectives I had (the one when I was with him and afterward) were so diametrically opposed they could have been about different people.

Example: A woman once let herself into his house and tried to climb into bed with us (not knowing I was there) and I believed him when he said she was just a friend staying with him for awhile! Can't say I had the same opinion after I thought about it in hindsight.

I had assumed that police were just going through old cases in a general way to see if they could solve any with the progression of DNA testing. But you are right, perhaps something specific prompted them to look at those ones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk