Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #21

[Spinnaker]

It would depend on how much room is inside and if he was the “sole” technician rostered on to attend breakdowns in that vicinity. The Spectacles exchange is located within the south-eastern suburbs and close to home – possibly included within his after-hours jurisdiction.

As telephone exchanges are major infrastructure, and many households affected if they faulted, I’d think higher management would need to be notified of any critical breakdowns – they’d all have keys too – wouldn’t want management turning up.

Presumably the accused CSK had keys to many buildings and exchanges. Taking a victim to an exchange would require a certain degree of confidence and the risk of damages occurring, during a struggle - how would he explain damages to equipment – surely he wouldn’t risk it. JMO.

I don't think we can assume whether the CSK did or did not use an exchange - we should really just focus on the facts, not personal opinion.

WAPOL searched/conducted forensics at the Cottesloe/ Stirling Highway exchange so they must have thought that there was a possibility that it may have been used by the alleged CSK (mentioned previously in WS).

 

[Kambo]

I don't think we can assume whether the CSK did or did not use an exchange - we should really just focus on the facts, not personal opinion.

WAPOL searched/conducted forensics at the Cottesloe/ Stirling Highway exchange so they must have thought that there was a possibility that it may have been used by the alleged CSK (mentioned previously in WS).

Has the search of the exchanges ever been confirmed or did someone just suggest it?


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[Annalise]

Has the search of the exchanges ever been confirmed or did someone just suggest it?


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WAPOL wouldn’t have known the killer was a telstra worker till the mention of Telstra Man mid 2000. Would they have checked exchanges at that time or when BRE came into the picture? Either way they wouldn’t be able to find much of anything like DNA after ten years or more. MOO


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[Jackman]

Below are the latitude and longitude coordinates for the three suburbs involved in the 180o line. I’ve looked at the three coordinates concerned, but can’t fathom how someone has arrived at a 180 degree line between Eglinton and Wellard – passing through Bay View Tce.

All afternoon I’ve been toying with the figures but still none the wiser.

Below is a link to a specifically formulated calculator, if anyone would like to look at it – perhaps someone can work out what other suburbs are on the line.

https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html

Eglinton -31.581953 115.676655 (Telstra transformer)
Wellard - 32.271895 115.858736 (near Telephone Lane)
BayView-31.981430 115.781122 (Claremont’s Bay View Tce)

 

[petedavo.au]

Maybe, it'd be easier to rule out places where police searches have already gone over since 1996?

Mundaring.
http://thewest2.smedia.com.au/Olive...px?href=WAN/2006/10/09&id=Ar01500&sk=67A3DE12


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[no name]

Below are the latitude and longitude coordinates for the three suburbs involved in the 180o line. I’ve looked at the three coordinates concerned, but can’t fathom how someone has arrived at a 180 degree line between Eglinton and Wellard – passing through Bay View Tce.

All afternoon I’ve been toying with the figures but still none the wiser.

Below is a link to a specifically formulated calculator, if anyone would like to look at it – perhaps someone can work out what other suburbs are on the line.

https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html

Eglinton -31.581953 115.676655 (Telstra transformer)
Wellard - 32.271895 115.858736 (near Telephone Lane)
BayView-31.981430 115.781122 (Claremont’s Bay View Tce)

What part is confusing you?
You place a marker on the place CG was found. You place another at the place JR was found. You draw a line between the two places and it passes through Claremont. Any 2 points with a straight line between them will have a 180° angle. Thats not the curious thing. The fact the line between the 2 places passes through the point of abduction is what people are questioning whether it is random or not. If your line doesnt pass through Claremont, you have the locations they were found incorrect.

 

[DRT]

Maybe, it'd be easier to rule out places where police searches have already gone over since 1996?

Mundaring.
http://thewest2.smedia.com.au/Olive...px?href=WAN/2006/10/09&id=Ar01500&sk=67A3DE12


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I think I would count out Wellard. I have read several papers saying there were several searches of Wellard after JR was found. They also searched near Casuarina Prison.

http://www.watoday.com.au/zoom/archive/rnews960805_0213_1183

Interesting enough the article you posted was written by Torrance Mendez who wrote quite a few about the missing girls in 1996/1997.

 

[Jackman]

What part is confusing you?
You place a marker on the place CG was found. You place another at the place JR was found. You draw a line between the two places and it passes through Claremont. Any 2 points with a straight line between them will have a 180° angle. Thats not the curious thing. The fact the line between the 2 places passes through the point of abduction is what people are questioning whether it is random or not. If your line doesnt pass through Claremont, you have the locations they were found incorrect.

Thanks No name,
I've drawn the line in Google Earth and can see it is a straigt line. How can I work out the suburbs further south of Wellard or north of Eglinton of the 180deg line. Also,the software provided calculates the line at 167 deg.

 

[meticulously]

Post #367 date 31-10-16 benjones84
"Plus they cannot see the clues in the blogs or the coordinates hinted"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12901414

 

[no name]

Thanks No name,
I've drawn the line in Google Earth and can see it is a straigt line. How can I work out the suburbs further south of Wellard or north of Eglinton of the 180deg line. Also,the software provided calculates the line at 167 deg.

Oh ok, I see now why its done your head in. How frustrating. You are probably absolutely correct in that the exact angle is not 180° using Google Earth or other such software. It will only calculate at 180° on a flat surface which I believe is what people were assuming was probably was used back in 1996 and quoting ie. A straight line on a paper map/road map etc.
You could take your pick in methods to choose further suburbs along the line I guess. Either extend it in either direction that appears to be straight and dont worry about the 180° angle, as it wont be on google earth or go to a far more primitive method where you know the 180° is correct ala 1996. Ie street directory.

 

[Spinnaker]

Has the search of the exchanges ever been confirmed or did someone just suggest it?


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Someone confirmed forensic team at Cottesloe exchange - not others


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[Spinnaker]

Just looking at the route from Claremont to Spectacles - as shown in below map.

Coincidently, the route takes in 2 of the Claremont Ghost hint vids:

Hint 6 0 Stirling Bridge
Hint 5 - Parkie described as Naval base at Garden Island, perhaps it is Naval base at end of Anketell Road (although impossible to decipher image without some inside knowledge)

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12396408#post12396408

 

[petedavo.au]

I think I would count out Wellard. I have read several papers saying there were several searches of Wellard after JR was found. They also searched near Casuarina Prison.

http://www.watoday.com.au/zoom/archive/rnews960805_0213_1183

Interesting enough the article you posted was written by Torrance Mendez who wrote quite a few about the missing girls in 1996/1997.

I remember various searches for missing persons in the North as well. There was an elderly bloke who lived upon Gnangara Rd near the OTC station that went walkabouts once and an extensive search from Cullacabardee through Whiteman Park and Gnangara Pines as far as Ellenbrook was undertaken. I note also that every Saturday sniffing dogs are trained at Gnangara Pines.

I also note that when an escaped murderer by the name of Edwards was on the run, the bush near Karragullen was extensively searched.

There was at least one search along the bibbulmun track through the hills too for lost walkers.

IMO we'd need to focus upon identifying areas that are not frequented by Bush walkers, or already well searched etc.

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[Jackman]

Back in 1996/97 Pipidinny Rd, Eglinton was far more remote than Woolcoot Rd, Wellard. It might suggest the CSK sought a more remote location – not just further away but more secluded. Albeit the remote locations, the two bodies were still found within weeks after placement – literally someone stumbled across them.

My thoughts are the CSK (whoever he is) didn’t want the bodies found as soon as they were. After JR was located, perhaps that’s why he placed CG further away from the inner-city – in the opposite direction and more remote too.

No one (CSK included), could have predicted Perth would have undergone such substantial development since 1996/97 – Eglinton and Wellard were considered remote back then.

Woolcoot Rd,Wellard has more farming land. Some oft he land looks as though it’s Crown Land, which hasn’t been subdivided into large acreage – 5 or 10 acres. (JR D-site) Wellard,Woolcoot Rd https://www.google.com.au

Pipidinny Rd is more remote, and looks like Crowne Land, without neighbours for a considerable distance. The land looks as though it will eventually be subdivided but not for a considerable time. There’s electricity, a Telstra transformer, but no gas warnings and I don’t think scheme water, sewer or drainage pipework. No sign of the land being developed for umpteen years. (CG D-site) Eglinton,Pipidinny Rd www.google.com.au

The Spectacles is a regional park. I think Crowne land and possibly will never undergo development. The swamp would attract quite a few visitors. A lot more visitors than Woolcoot Rd and Pipidinny Rd. Telstra and government employees are educated about the importance of endangered wildlife and the various groups who tend to them - especially turtles & frogs. Various groups go there to check on them Spectacles [url]https://www.google.com.au[/URL]

Neighbouring Postans was quite remote in 1996/97 but has since been developed.
Postans- https://www.google.com.au/maps/

 

[Spinnaker]

I remember various searches for missing persons in the North as well. There was an elderly bloke who lived upon Gnangara Rd near the OTC station that went walkabouts once and an extensive search from Cullacabardee through Whiteman Park and Gnangara Pines as far as Ellenbrook was undertaken. I note also that every Saturday sniffing dogs are trained at Gnangara Pines.

I also note that when an escaped murderer by the name of Edwards was on the run, the bush near Karragullen was extensively searched.

There was at least one search along the bibbulmun track through the hills too for lost walkers.

IMO we'd need to focus upon identifying areas that are not frequented by Bush walkers, or already well searched etc.

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Info re the Edwards murderer who escaped:

https://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Double-killer-caught-at-bush-camp/2005/04/08/1112815708788.html

 

[lampformypath]

Back in 1996/97 Pipidinny Rd, Eglinton was far more remote than Woolcoot Rd, Wellard. It might suggest the CSK sought a more remote location – not just further away but more secluded. Albeit the remote locations, the two bodies were still found within weeks after placement – literally someone stumbled across them.

My thoughts are the CSK (whoever he is) didn’t want the bodies found as soon as they were. After JR was located, perhaps that’s why he placed CG further away from the inner-city – in the opposite direction and more remote too.

No one (CSK included), could have predicted Perth would have undergone such substantial development since 1996/97 – Eglinton and Wellard were considered remote back then.

Woolcoot Rd,Wellard has more farming land. Some oft he land looks as though it’s Crown Land, which hasn’t been subdivided into large acreage – 5 or 10 acres. (JR D-site) Wellard,Woolcoot Rd https://www.google.com.au

Pipidinny Rd is more remote, and looks like Crowne Land, without neighbours for a considerable distance. The land looks as though it will eventually be subdivided but not for a considerable time. There’s electricity, a Telstra transformer, but no gas warnings and I don’t think scheme water, sewer or drainage pipework. No sign of the land being developed for umpteen years. (CG D-site) Eglinton,Pipidinny Rd www.google.com.au

The Spectacles is a regional park. I think Crowne land and possibly will never undergo development. The swamp would attract quite a few visitors. A lot more visitors than Woolcoot Rd and Pipidinny Rd. Telstra and government employees are educated about the importance of endangered wildlife and the various groups who tend to them - especially turtles & frogs. Various groups go there to check on them Spectacles https://www.google.com.au

Neighbouring Postans was quite remote in 1996/97 but has since been developed.
Postans- https://www.google.com.au/maps/

Thanks Jackman for your thoughtful post. Regarding Pipidinny Road though, as I posted before, the locals said it was a "busy" road with traffic at all hours of the day and night (popular fishing spot). As fisher people tend to go out at all hours i.e. early a.m. I just wonder why BRE picked that spot, or did he pick it? Was it really a case of drive out around 40 klms in opposite direction to JR and stop when he saw a remote type area, not planned, just random and chaotic? With all the accused driving for his work, all day long no doubt, you'd think he would have pre-chosen a better place? Just my weird thoughts on that particular location.

 

[Jackman]

Thanks Jackman for your thoughtful post. Regarding Pipidinny Road though, as I posted before, the locals said it was a "busy" road with traffic at all hours of the day and night (popular fishing spot). As fisher people tend to go out at all hours i.e. early a.m. I just wonder why BRE picked that spot, or did he pick it? Was it really a case of drive out around 40 klms in opposite direction to JR and stop when he saw a remote type area, not planned, just random and chaotic? With all the accused driving for his work, all day long no doubt, you'd think he would have pre-chosen a better place? Just my weird thoughts on that particular location.

Perhaps both JR and CGs D-sites were familiar to the CSK

* Woolcoot Rd, Wellard on route to Madora Bay.

* Pipidinny Rd, on route for fishing.

Can always stop by and do whatever (thinking about the Rowe Park pervert). My thoughts are the Rowe Park pervert was the CSK.

D-sites chosen for future convenience.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj-tviMyuPaAhXIUrwKHTRfAf04ChAWCCswAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdoc%2F292980481%2FPOST-Newspaper-for-12th-of-December-2015&usg=AOvVaw0DOAMfF-2twK2NDny7fi8k

 

[Annalise]

Perhaps both JR and CGs D-sites were familiar to the CSK

* Woolcoot Rd, Wellard on route to Madora Bay.

* Pipidinny Rd, on route for fishing.

Can always stop by and do whatever (thinking about the Rowe Park pervert). My thoughts are the Rowe Park pervert was the CSK.

D-sites chosen for future convenience.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj-tviMyuPaAhXIUrwKHTRfAf04ChAWCCswAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdoc%2F292980481%2FPOST-Newspaper-for-12th-of-December-2015&usg=AOvVaw0DOAMfF-2twK2NDny7fi8k

Hi everyone - I still maintain that the CSK didn’t go through all the organising and planning to abduct SS JR and CG just to kill them on the same night. I have always felt he held the girls somewhere for a period of time, then killed them and took to dump sites. JR was missing for 7 weeks prior to finding her body. She wasn’t buried so was more easily found. CG was missing for 19 days prior to her body being found. She was also not buried and much more easily found. I believe he took them somewhere and held them captive. MOO


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[Kambo]

Can someone post a link to where “locals” said Pipidinny road was a busy road back in 1997. It’s not even a busy road now and still has no houses around it. From my recollection parts of it were unsealed at the time. It might have been a popular stretch of coast to fish for locals but as a fisherman myself I see nothing there that would attract me to drive an hour+ from south of the river to get there. Plenty of good spots down around Cockburn, south to Mandurah etc that would be equal to this section.

I think there are too many things from old threads that people posted as theories that are now treated as facts without a source. For instance I see no proof the accused was a keen fisherman other than 1 media report that said he used to go crabbing with his dad at the holiday house. From my point of view, a lot of people go crabbing and doesn’t necessarily make them avid fisherman. I think too much has been made of this connection. Just my thoughts


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[Marylouise911]

Hi everyone - I still maintain that the CSK didn’t go through all the organising and planning to abduct SS JR and CG just to kill them on the same night. I have always felt he held the girls somewhere for a period of time, then killed them and took to dump sites. JR was missing for 7 weeks prior to finding her body. She wasn’t buried so was more easily found. CG was missing for 19 days prior to her body being found. She was also not buried and much more easily found. I believe he took them somewhere and held them captive. MOO


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I agree with your thoughts Annalise. What period of time were you thinking? Days or hours?

I've always felt that KK cemetery or surrounding buildings could have been a place the girls were taken after the initial abductions. Dark and secluded and also a familiar location where the accused had committed a previous sick crime. He may have been confident that because he hadn't been caught for that crime, he could continue to use the location without close monitoring of the area as the focus was on Claremont and taxi drivers? Whilst the cemetery is more secure and closed up to vehicles at night these days, it wasn't like that at the time of the crimes. JMO


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