Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #4

[GreenDevil]

My gut says SS was an accident and as such he hid her more thoroughly - burried her.

The next two were intentional kills.

What he accidentally abducted her, then murdered and disposed of her body? All accidentally? I think I know what you mean, but I think it's more to do with SS most likely being the first victim he intentionally killed, so he disposed of her more thoroughly plus her body may have contained connecting forensic evidence to Karrakatta.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I think what 88mph was implying was that he didn't plan it but it was more of an opportunistic moment. Certainly possible but I think he also planned SS and afterwards he realised he needed more time under darkness so shifted his pick up time from 2am to midnight and shortened his drop off time (by dumping the bodies where they would certainly be found at some point). I think he rationalised that he drive 50km out of Claremont and dump the bodies at locations that would reduce the risk of being found quickly and exposing him to forensic risk. He seemed to have got that balance on how far out and what location to dump the bodies spot on.

On the CSK's intelligence, I think he's of above average IQ but I just re-watched a couple of Ridgeway docos I had lying around. He was well below average IQ but he was a very crafty and intelligent killer. Approximately 70-80 murders in the same patch and evade police for 19 years. It's akin to some sports people - low IQs but when it comes to their chosen sport they are extremely intelligent. Shane Warne is hands down the smartest cricketer I have ever seen but whilst he's not normally stupid he's no Mensa member either.

 

[silver tongue]

on his intelligence i dont think you need to be an oxford scholar to strangle and murder defenceless women,alls he needed was a car, murder weapon and more front than a rat with a gold tooth
hes obviously as cunning as a s,,, house rat and able to hide his other side, im leaning towards a richard dorough type, somebody who visited perth whether it be work related or leisure

 

[Bartholemeus]

on his intelligence i dont think you need to be an oxford scholar to strangle and murder defenceless women,alls he needed was a car and an a murder weapon and more front than woolies
hes obviously as cunning as a s,,, house rat and able to hide his other side, im leaning towards a richard dorough type, somebody who visited perth whether it be work related or leisure

I struggle to believe someone just visited and chose such a small geographical patch such as Claremont. An outsider would have mixed it up a bit, particularly after the first two. Not to mention it's likely some of the many rapes and sex attacks leading up to the killings suggest the CSK was local for an extended period.

I think there was some sort of mental attachment to the area that blow in wouldn't have. I'd say he either lived there or worked there.

To answer aim2solve's theory on someone working or having a local association;

Claremont is predominantly a retail area. Professional offices are limited as is industrial. Some options might be;

- bouncer at one of the 2 main establishments
- Could have worked at any number of retail outlets, car or tyre service centres
- There's a small industrial area on Carrington St that backs onto the cemetery
- Could have had a link to the local football club or public swimming pool
- Could have been a regular at the speedway

It's not like anything could really be narrowed down.

 

[papertrail]

This article has some very interesting information quoted as coming from Prof. Gill who is known as the father of DNA testing...shows just how easy things can go incredibly wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...V-says-world-s-leading-forensic-profiler.html

 

[papertrail]

and another more interesting interview transcript -- very easy to read and understand

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/peter-gill-interview/

 

[88mph]

What he accidentally abducted her, then murdered and disposed of her body? All accidentally? I think I know what you mean, but I think it's more to do with SS most likely being the first victim he intentionally killed, so he disposed of her more thoroughly plus her body may have contained connecting forensic evidence to Karrakatta.

Sorry that wasn't very clear.

I was implying that he accidentally killed SS. Once this psychological barrier was crossed, he intentionally killed the next two for thrills or to limit the witness aspect.

 

[papertrail]

To me the last sentence of Gill interview says why detectives have to be so very careful how they proceed if there is a DNA match. "So DNA always has to be considered in the context of the other evidence, and should never be considered by itself."


Gill appeared as an expert witness in the current Pfennig prosecution in South Australia re the Louise Bell disappearance in 1983.

 

[aim2solve]

An interesting SK case from Russia around the same period.

"From 1992 to 2000, Popkov is suspected of murdering up to 29 women. He would pick up slightly intoxicated women who were just leaving bars or parties, using his police car and uniform to gain the victims' trust in some of the murders. Popkov would then drive them to the forest where he raped and murdered them. The victims were reportedly axed, stabbed, or strangled to death. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Popkov

 

[Parkie]

SS would not be buried, unless in water. Finding the inbetween spots is the go. I don`t think there was one with CG. Was the csk into rope tying up? Erotic like? Just guessing here. Did he drop south to begin with? Then south again & deem that too hot a locale in his mind? Even though one is still not found? Then he goes north. Was Droc right re Beelair Lakes or Spectacles?

 

[CSK?]

with the amount of sexual predators, murderers and dodgy guys around at the time is it at all possible SS is a victim of someone else other than CSK? (the amount of shady characters around in society when you search for them is crazy! and there were plenty in and around perth)

If she is a CSK victim then maybe she was special to him in some way, first kill? maybe he didn't want her found... who knows... a question I have.. has Judo man ever been cleared? was he a suspect or simply a POI?

 

[papertrail]

I believe JM appeared on the CIA documentary as well as Lynda Donovan -- both talking about Jane, due to the fact that the Rimmer family were in mourning due to Jane's father dying on 3 February 2008 -- simple as that.


Mr Rimmer worked in the insurance industry, JM worked in the finance industry (in 1996) so it is highly likely this is how JM knew the Rimmer family.
BTW JM started out his working life as a carpenter. Don't think that gives an indication he came from a wealthy family. Also his family were based in Scarbourough during the 1980s.

 

[*Indigo*]

So are the main suspects cleared ?>?>?>
ABC even has a report online saying all previous main suspects have been cleared. makes it seem legit as ABC does not publish rumors. i.e. reputable, national news network, not just WA newspapers.

"In the past, officers have been criticised for their handling of the case, particularly a fixation on several men who were eventually cleared of involvement."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-27/claremont-serial-killings-20th-anniversary/7118904

 

[*Indigo*]

So who are we left with as possible perps?

<modsnip>
Mystery Man
Anyone else???

 

[enzeder]

So are the main suspects cleared ?>?>?>
ABC even has a report online saying all previous main suspects have been cleared. makes it seem legit as ABC does not publish rumors. i.e. reputable, national news network, not just WA newspapers.

"In the past, officers have been criticised for their handling of the case, particularly a fixation on several men who were eventually cleared of involvement."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-27/claremont-serial-killings-20th-anniversary/7118904

I posted a link to an article in the Media thread that names those who appear to have been cleared?.

Link to post: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...hotos-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=12312000#post12312000

 

[*Indigo*]

Thanks enzeder! Great links to articles.
You are right, with no official police statement, (and why would they unless it helped their investigation) the operative word is "appear"....

 

[silver tongue]

So who are we left with as possible perps?

<modsnip>
Mystery Man
Anyone else???

my guess is somebody whos DNA is not on file,anybody who was a serious suspect should of been cleared via DNA

 

[Bartholemeus]

1. ABC could well be reporting what is now accepted as common knowledge. Police are not talking so they can't confirm it from them.

2. Its highly likely has provided DNA. Hence if they do have DNA then he would highly likely be ruled out with the rest

3. The West published names of those ruled out. There was no source so the most likely is they put together a list of guys they had written articles on.

4. No one is going to publicly rule <modsnip> out because he's never been publicly outed. Just because he's not on that list doesn't mean he hasn't been ruled out.

 

[Bartholemeus]

my guess is somebody whos DNA is not on file,anybody who was a serious suspect should of been cleared via DNA

Macro allegedly recovered a DNA profile in 2008. The same year <modsnip>

The timing adds up; Get DNA, compare to existing suspects, rule them all out, scratch heads, check case notes, come up with new suspects <modsnip> and put together a public campaign in form of CIA episode.

But as you say he likely would have had to provide DNA (WA Police can enforce it from anyone they suspect of committing a serious crime). He told should have been ruled out. So why Macro so quiet for 7 years? And who's on their current suspect list?

 

[enzeder]

Macro allegedly recovered a DNA profile in 2008. The same year <modsnip>

The timing adds up; Get DNA, compare to existing suspects, rule them all out, scratch heads, check case notes, come up with new suspects <modsnip> and put together a public campaign in form of CIA episode.

But as you say he likely would have had to provide DNA (WA Police can enforce it from anyone they suspect of committing a serious crime). He told should have been ruled out. So why Macro so quiet for 7 years? And who's on their current suspect list?

BBM - If that's the case then I wonder why this article says that LW was ruled out as a suspect some time before 2008?.

The scrutiny would continue for years until advances in DNA technology enabled police to finally rule out Mr Williams as a suspect some time before 2008 when he was told by investigators that they &#8220;would not be bothering him again&#8221;.

Glare of suspicion burnt several innocent men
January 27, 2016: https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/w...lare-of-suspicion-burnt-several-innocent-men/