Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

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Not necessarily so Barth. Especially if over time the chest bite marks deteriorated.
You mean insect wounds? like the necks apparently being cut (hypothetically). Would the insects deteriorate the bite marks wounds?

I don't think they were bitten but you never know, I thought Dixie was ruled out though DNA? why bring him back up then?
 
Our Say: Macro Investigation
Last updated: Apr 30, 2016: https://www.police.wa.gov.au/Media-Centre/Our-Say/Macro-Investigation
You see the problem with this announcement is the wording yet again, this has been carefully orchestrated over this entire investigation, they have carefully worded all their public announcements:

“Maintaining the operational integrity of this investigation is paramount if we are to bring the offender, or offenders, to justice. It is WA Police policy not to comment about the Macro investigation. However on this occasion police would like to correct reports that number plates captured on video in Claremont on March 14, 1997, were not checked - that is inaccurate.

They say it is inaccurate, but don't actually say why, or that they did check ALL the number plates at the time, or especially around the time frame of the murders. Going by the way this announcement is worded its very likely that SOME of the number plates were checked, but that is not the root of the incompetence, the fact that not ALL the number plates were checked, especially around the time of the CSK highlights just how badly this investigation was run. I think an inquest is on the cards, how many heads will be exposed and how many political/high ranking figures will lose their jobs over this case must be a particularly large number considering the secrecy around this case and length its been operating for and the seemingly infinite budget operating to keep the investigation active to distance the case from a coronial inquest.

That announcement does not clarify anything, it actually poses more questions than answers, its another useless WAPOL announcement with no weight behind it and we are all meant to just believe they are doing a great job and that its business as usual and take in these gullible announcements and accept them. The wording is rubbish, if they want to discredit an article they need to do better than that, it proves nothing.

What is very interesting is that The West, and Channel 7, did not withdraw the news articles about the secret tape not being checked, they kept the article on the front page for the entire weekend inc after WAPOL decided to make their announcement that their was no bass to The West's claims. So the West obviously had a pretty good source and felt he was correct and refused to take the article down, in fact you can still access it now, the facebook posts from both news media outlets remained too and nothing was updated on those to say or apoligise or refute the Police claims so they werent being baited by WAPOLs announcement.

Very interesting that the Fiber evidence from Jane Rimmer which determined the car, and also this evidence about not checking the vehicles, both seem like enormous key pieces that have been lost and overlooked and both would have identified the offenders vehicle very early on into the investigation (Hypothetically if the tape had the CSK's car on it)
 
The problem with not checking the tape is that at the time it would have been one of a few genuine leads and could have significantly narrowed down the POI /suspect and may possibly have led to an early encounter between the offender and the Police when they checked each and every registration. This could have been crucial to documenting and maybe identifying the offender early into the case, atleast earlier than 20 years.. 21 if you include Karrakatta which doesnt seem to have been investigated at all. Because of the importance and lack of genuine leads I believe they should have checked EVERY car that night incase he was scouting the area earlier in the night and then came back later, Or just checked out the area earlier into the night.

Really isnt a surprise to hear the news that the secret tape wasnt properly investigated. Very said that this case has been met with this level of incompetence too. Such shady figures around this case and lots of dodgy reviews being done almost to overcompensate for the Police paranoia over their handling of this case.
 
Not necessarily so Barth. Especially if over time the chest bite marks deteriorated.

Those bodies had been out in the weeds for quite some time. They would have been in pretty poor condition and would probably have required dental records for identification. It would have been a very grim discovery.
 
If we accept these details as fact (I understand some posters do not), then what does it say about the killer?

• The girls were addicted by blitz attack
(The initial approach was a direct assault.)
• Jane was found nude
• Insect activity around Jane's neck indicated her throat had been cut
• No other wounds were visible on Jane's body
• There was evidence Jane had been raped
• Ciara was found with a blouse and skirt on (or may have been a dress)
• Insect activity around Ciara's neck indicated her throat had been cut
• There was evidence of a blunt force injury to Ciara's skull
• No other wounds were visible on Ciara's body
• There was no evidence Ciara had been raped

Some possible inferences:

1. The killer needed to control the girls quickly, and did not think he could con or trick them into his vehicle. Maybe he was self-conscious about his appearance or his voice? He was strong and confident in his ability to overpower someone quickly. He had experience in

2. The killer may have been an inexperienced killer. I can't think of many organized killers who "just" cut their victims' throats. Maybe he strangled them first, took them to the dump sites, and then cut their throats just to be sure. Inexperienced killers might not be sure the victim was dead.

3. Maybe he worked on a farm or was a hunter. Cutting someone's throat is an efficient way of killing someone. But it seems primitive. I think someone less familiar with death would stabbed or suffocated.

4. He was interested in sex with live girls. Maybe he accident killed Ciara in the abduction or when he attempted to rape her. Rape was the primary intent, and the killing was just to cover up the rape.

5. The killer 'quit' because he was afraid of being caught. He continued raping elsewhere, but was more careful about hiding his identity.

Can anyone think of anything else? You might not agree with my original facts, but list yours so we can see your reasoning. These are all just guesses.
 
You mean insect wounds? like the necks apparently being cut (hypothetically). Would the insects deteriorate the bite marks wounds?

I don't think they were bitten but you never know, I thought Dixie was ruled out though DNA? why bring him back up then?

No I definitely do not mean insect bites. IMO insect access was secondary (after) the bites were done. :/
 
A killer who would bite off his victims' nipples would be a disorganized mess. He would likely suffer from schizophrenia or paranoid delusions. He would not be capable of abducting women, assaulting them in a second location and dumping them elsewhere, without getting caught. IMO.

There would probably be additional bite marks, not just nipple removal. There would be additional trauma to the bodies--severe, frenzied trauma. IMO.

The only other type of killer who might do something like this would be a sadist, and the CSK has done absolutely nothing to indicate he was a sadist (he's actually done things to indicate he is not). IMO.
 
A killer who would bite off his victims' nipples would be a disorganized mess. He would likely suffer from schizophrenia or paranoid delusions. He would not be capable of abducting women, assaulting them in a second location and dumping them elsewhere, without getting caught. IMO.

There would probably be additional bite marks, not just nipple removal. There would be additional trauma to the bodies--severe, frenzied trauma. IMO.

The only other type of killer who might do something like this would be a sadist, and the CSK has done absolutely nothing to indicate he was a sadist (he's actually done things to indicate he is not). IMO.

Yea, nipples are designed not to come off when chewed upon. You would be working pretty hard to get them off, and it would be a pretty gruesome process. Our boy clearly isn't quite right in the head, but you would need to be pretty severely tapped if you were into that sort of caper.

That would definitely score you 11/10 on the Nut-O-Meter.
 
I'm interested in how this pans out;

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...-highway|homepage|homepage&itmt=1462501849237

Could be an animal but if it's human the location will speak volumes. There's not a glut of murdered people in the wheat belt and if the victim isn't local why did someone drive all the way out there to dump a body?

It's possible it's an indigenous person who has gone missing and hasn't been picked up by the authorities.
It's possible it's Lisa Govan suggesting the killer may have dropped her off heading to Perth.
Or an outside chance it's Sarah Spiers. It's a 3 and a half hour drive. SS was picked up at 2am and sun up was 5am. Meaning she would have either had to be dumped in sunlight (wouldn't be any witnesses out there) or her waited until the next night.
 
Me too,
Hopefully the bones can be identified and a family gets some closure.
Could be SS.
I believe after SS he realised he wanted the girls found so put them where they would be found more easily.
 
Bones found on the side of the road would be consistent with CSK MO, it might be SS.
 
I'm interested in how this pans out;

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...-highway|homepage|homepage&itmt=1462501849237

Could be an animal but if it's human the location will speak volumes. There's not a glut of murdered people in the wheat belt and if the victim isn't local why did someone drive all the way out there to dump a body?

It's possible it's an indigenous person who has gone missing and hasn't been picked up by the authorities.
It's possible it's Lisa Govan suggesting the killer may have dropped her off heading to Perth.
Or an outside chance it's Sarah Spiers. It's a 3 and a half hour drive. SS was picked up at 2am and sun up was 5am. Meaning she would have either had to be dumped in sunlight (wouldn't be any witnesses out there) or her waited until the next night.
Yes, very interesting discovery, more so because of how old the bones seem, and this wouldnt be getting as much air time and news time if they werent atleast mostly sure its a human, it seems they havent ruled out Animal, but highly assume human, and dumped near the road side.

HYPOTHETICALLY- If this was the CSK victim then it paints a very interesting scenario, the first victim was dumped just over 3 hours out of Perth. Which would mean the victim would most likely have been put in the boot to conceal the body, especially when daylight came upon. So he probably had taken the victim to another location first, done his thing (More than likely rape) and then put her dead body in a concealed location. Given Jane had fibers from the seat of the vehicle its fair to assume after the initial attack on the victim and after they were subdued he must have thrown or dumped them in the car and transferred the body to the boot, and probably plastic lined to hide any blood and evidence.

Another interesting development in the Coorong attacker from South Australia who tried to kill the rape and kill the two girls in salt creek has been linked to the murder of Victoria Cafasso in Tasmania,

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/3085982...urder-and-cold-case-from-20-years-ago/?Cmp=fb
 
Me too,
Hopefully the bones can be identified and a family gets some closure.
Could be SS.
I believe after SS he realised he wanted the girls found so put them where they would be found more easily.
Or he initially felt taking the victim as far away as possible would somehow be a better idea to keep the body hidden, however after travelling that distance he realised just how easily he could have been caught by a Police officer on the highway, or a random breath test, license check, this may be why the victim may have been killed and concealed in the boot first.

This may not be Sarah Spiers but people have always suspected she may have been east, however its more likely she was dumped south.

I wonder if anyone has ever searched on the fringes of those two salt lakes north and south of Safety Bay road east of warnbro/safety bay suburbs. There is enormously dense scrum running along Mandurah road north of safety bay rd (I am not sure if this part of Mandurah road is labelled [OLD] Mandurah road, or if the [OLD] part is the part south of Safety bay road) and seems like an easy place to dump and run, seems almost too dense to walk through without being ravaged by snakes and other nasty insects, but would be worth the risk if hiding the body though given the unlikely nature anyone would ever walk through there or the unlikliness of anyone walking that road seeing the dense scrub is a couple of levels below road level down an embankment.

It would be nice if Don Spiers was clearer as to where the phone caller claimed the body of Sarah Spiers was dumped. Some originally thought it was Karnup, Sleuthers suspected a patch of land called Westonia or something east of Perth along way into rural WA, and then some claim it was Gnagarra Pine plantation, which seems like an obvious place to dump, even to obvious, and alot of activity around those pines from 4WD and Motocross riders so more than likely dumped around the fringes again unless he had a decent offroad vehicle eg 4WD.

I think its very unlikely Sarah is burried under limestone in Henderson, seems like a load of rubbish and just fanciful thinking. Droc claimed she was buried under a house somewhere in Perth.
 
If we accept these details as fact (I understand some posters do not), then what does it say about the killer?

• The girls were addicted by blitz attack
(The initial approach was a direct assault.)
• Jane was found nude
• Insect activity around Jane's neck indicated her throat had been cut
• No other wounds were visible on Jane's body
• There was evidence Jane had been raped
• Ciara was found with a blouse and skirt on (or may have been a dress)
• Insect activity around Ciara's neck indicated her throat had been cut
• There was evidence of a blunt force injury to Ciara's skull
• No other wounds were visible on Ciara's body
• There was no evidence Ciara had been raped

Some possible inferences:

1. The killer needed to control the girls quickly, and did not think he could con or trick them into his vehicle. Maybe he was self-conscious about his appearance or his voice? He was strong and confident in his ability to overpower someone quickly. He had experience in

2. The killer may have been an inexperienced killer. I can't think of many organized killers who "just" cut their victims' throats. Maybe he strangled them first, took them to the dump sites, and then cut their throats just to be sure. Inexperienced killers might not be sure the victim was dead.

3. Maybe he worked on a farm or was a hunter. Cutting someone's throat is an efficient way of killing someone. But it seems primitive. I think someone less familiar with death would stabbed or suffocated.

4. He was interested in sex with live girls. Maybe he accident killed Ciara in the abduction or when he attempted to rape her. Rape was the primary intent, and the killing was just to cover up the rape.

5. The killer 'quit' because he was afraid of being caught. He continued raping elsewhere, but was more careful about hiding his identity.

Can anyone think of anything else? You might not agree with my original facts, but list yours so we can see your reasoning. These are all just guesses.
Good summary and includes some of the rumours which may or may not be true, but if true paint a very good picture of the possible scenarios.

I don't think the CSK necessary worked as a hunter, if you cut the victims throat then its a way of almost certainly ensuring their death. If you strangled the victims first and moved them to their dump locations, slicing their throats is a way of making sure you don't leave a witness. Maybe after Karrakatta the CSK was terrified and the throat slicing comes into play at this point. The victims were all found some time after they were killed so its unlikely in Western Australia's climate that any evidence would have been left on any plant/sand. The area is too harsh and extreme so surely the water run off and also the harsh conditions would have made finding evidence that they were killed at the site almost impossible to determine. If they were found within a few days then it may have been possible to make a determination whether the victims had their throats cut at the dumpsite, but definitely not after the time they were found.

Sarah was dumped in summer too so I wonder if he took more care and placed her alot further away, eg. Rural WA, to hide any evidence and likely hood of a walking passerby finding the body, would make sense if this new discovery turns out to be Sarah Spiers 3 hrs east of Perth. Less chance of rain washing any evidence away and more likely animals would consume the remains.

I think he probably accidently killed Ciara and then just dumped the body and didnt bother going to the interim location, or maybe he did hoping she would regain conciousness, she didnt and because she was not 'alive' could not get any gratification out of the situation and moved on to his ultimate fantasy, taking the girl to the dump site, slicing her throat, and dumping her in a place and covering her so she may not be seen very easily for a substantial amount of time eg. when the evidence was mostly gone.

Point 1 doesnt need much eplaining. Traditionally abductions were typically 'blitz' attacks from Vans pulling up beside a victim and someone running out of the side door, tackling the victim before binding them or disarming them and basically throwing them into the Van. This is actually more than likely similar to how Gerard Ross vanished (A forgotten WA case that never made a Coronial Inquest sadly. Poor kid, not even our government could care to find the killer enough to give him an inquest, and this was before the CSK). However after reading the news articles from the CSK case and the recent articles surrounding Karrakatta and the new theory of 'blitz attack' then it seems likely the CSK method of abduction didnt change much from Karrakatta. Serial killers tend to keep to patterns that work and not change unless they feel they may be discovered. The Karrakatta abduction worked incredibly well and he got exactly what he wanted from the attack by the looks of it so its unlikely he changed this approach too much. That late at night it would have been obvious if someone was lurking around asking people if they needed a ride, straight away the element of surprise is lot and you have made yourself a number of witnesses that could lead to your identity being found. If this Person did this all the time it would be even more obvious. There were reports about the Police Officers son asking people if they needed lifts though, and he could have access tot he Commodore VS Series 1 'White' especially if that was a Police issued vehicle as the cops drove that exact vehicle in those days, so you never know, maybe the offer of a lift never worked, or only landed a male, and then you had to actually drive them home. The blitz atack guaranteed you got the victim you wanted, eg a female of a certain age, and no witnesses if done in a secluded car park behind a business late at night and you surpirsed that victim eg. Karrakatta

Good chance the killer has changed MO and has still raped/killed. Left the state and continued somewhere else, or just stayed under the radar to let the heat cool down, or simply felt he was about to be caught, and by pure luck and lack of any actual physical evidence has incredibly escaped capture, despite the Police thinking they know who it was.. All possible scenarios.
 
Good points Elastic, I enjoy reading your posts.
it's interesting you said Westonia, that's so close to carrabin where the unidentified human bones were just found(I just saw it on the map, I have never heard of either these places before)

SS went to the OBH, on Australia Day, There is usually a presence of country/cowboy/farm people at the downstairs bar, that likely head home in the east direction. Just saying.
iMo.
 
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