Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[papertrail]

No one who has a copy of this video has ever stored forth. Posters have attested to its existence, and made public pleas for anyone with a copy to post it online or PM it, but no one has ever stepped forth with the video. If it exists, and if anyone reading this has a copy, we would all LOVE to see it.

This is an urban myth about Jane getting into a taxi being captured on the CIA footage. In the 'normal' CIA doc that we have all viewed ex youtube Jane is standing nearby the front of a taxi that a group of 4 (from memory) people get into. The thing is that Jane is captured still standing at the post after this taxi and people are no longer there. Simple as that.

 

[papertrail]

Papertrail,

Watch the Segment with the uniformed officer and plain clothed officer again. You misheard their conversation.

For the purposes of accuracy: A VS Series 1 Commodore has a "silver only" Holden badge and a rectangular (not oval shaped) side indicator. The particular trim that the white series ones had was a blueish grey.

I watched this ABC doc many many times before posting what I did on Websleuths. You and others need to watch again and listen very carefully. The uniformed officer points out to the detective (man in dark suit) about foliage, but then detective says to him "can they get DNA from fibres". I have had quite a few other people listen to this as well and they all hear what I hear. BTW this ABC documentary was aired just after the big case review which had occurred in November 2004 !

 

[papertrail]

Papertrail,

Watch the Segment with the uniformed officer and plain clothed officer again. You misheard their conversation.

For the purposes of accuracy: A VS Series 1 Commodore has a "silver only" Holden badge and a rectangular (not oval shaped) side indicator. The particular trim that the white series ones had was a blueish grey.

I don't see the relevance of your comments re the VS series 1 Commodore 'silver only' Holden badge etc

 

[crabstick]

Im at work. Leave it with me.work to do back later
The chances the two bodies vector through the Cot hotel are more than 10000 to 1
http://www.academia.edu/9539668/From_Hunter_to_Hunted_Tracking_Serial_Killers_Using_Geoprofilinghttp://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2014/11/features/mapping-murder/viewall

Disposing the bodies in locations they are likely/not likely to be found is different from positioning the bodies according to lay lines or angles.



What does "exposed to" mean? Some of the articles have been posted online. I READ them. Is that the same thing?



RSBM & BBM. Absolutely has never happened. Provide one case where this fanciful idea has ever occurred.

 

[papertrail]

Yes you did supply court transcripts, but they did not actually prove anything about Donald Moreys incarceration. It is very rare for prisoners to serve anywhere close to their full sentences. He was in prison for an offence tnat had nothing to do with murder and it wouldnt surprise me if he was on the streets in 95/96 under our justice system.

There is a possibility he was in jail during the CSK years, however there is a possibility that ML was in jail during the Con Bayen highgate and northbridge operation. There is no different, both probably cannot be proven without further verification from someone who can confirm some of the details. Its more likely that Highgate man is Donald Victor Morey than he is ML, Whether Bayens has got it right or not who knows, but he definitely leans/hints towards the highgate 'plastic lined boot' man being Donald Morey.

I beleive with absolutely certainty that Morey could quite easily hold himself high, and talk like a Police man, he sat in a Coronial Inquest and lied through his teeth, he was almost enjoying being on the stand, someone that calculated could quite easily hold themselves with significant authority. Especially seeing he is more than likely our 'other' serial killer, if he isn't the CSK.

Morey is due for release at the end of this year so some poor girl is more than likely going to die to this guy once he is released.

Yes you did supply court transcripts, but they did not actually prove anything about Donald Moreys incarceration. It is very rare for prisoners to serve anywhere close to their full sentences. He was in prison for an offence tnat had nothing to do with murder and it wouldnt surprise me if he was on the streets in 95/96 under our justice system.

There is a possibility he was in jail during the CSK years, however there is a possibility that ML was in jail during the Con Bayen highgate and northbridge operation. There is no different, both probably cannot be proven without further verification from someone who can confirm some of the details. Its more likely that Highgate man is Donald Victor Morey than he is ML, Whether Bayens has got it right or not who knows, but he definitely leans/hints towards the highgate 'plastic lined boot' man being Donald Morey.

I beleive with absolutely certainty that Morey could quite easily hold himself high, and talk like a Police man, he sat in a Coronial Inquest and lied through his teeth, he was almost enjoying being on the stand, someone that calculated could quite easily hold themselves with significant authority. Especially seeing he is more than likely our 'other' serial killer, if he isn't the CSK.

Morey is due for release at the end of this year so some poor girl is more than likely going to die to this guy once he is released.

You appear to be disregarding a very important point. And that is that Morey was serving a prison sentence in Queensland and escaped (November 1988),recaptured in Victoria sent back to Queensland, subsequently applied for a transfer to WA prison, granted. Between escape and recapture he had made his way to WA and committed (in WA) 2 armed robberies - 6 Jan 1989 and 4 Apr 1989. He committed both of these robberies using a replica firearm thus he was still charged with using a 'dangerous weapon'.

At the end of it all, he was sentenced to serve 2 sentences. The 1st was a 7 year term to be served cumulatively on the sentence he was serving in Qld. I do not know what the sentence was in Qld. However he was also ordered to serve a further sentence of 7 years concurrently with the 1st sentence (re armed robbery in WA). At the end of an appeal the decision doc contains all the relevant information http://decisions.justice.wa.gov.au/...EA52345DE4825640A000286CF&action=openDocument

If you bother to read this transcript you will see that there was NO ORDER for parole !!!

Near the end of the document you will see the Judge's comments to Morey (pasted below) in which the Judge detailed TWICE to Morey that he would not be granted parole.

You will therefore be sentenced in respect of
each offence to a term of 7 years' imprisonment,
the first sentence to run cumulatively with the
sentence originally imposed in Queensland which you
are now serving here. The second sentence is to
run concurrently with the sentence I have just
imposed. There will not be an order that you be
eligible for parole. You will not be eligible for
parole and I can say this: if you come before me
again or come before this court again in respect of
offences of this nature, then you could expect that
there would be an order declaring you an habitual
criminal and it would be accompanied then by an
order that you be detained indefinitely in a prison
during the Governor's pleasure."



Re comments re Morey being the plastic-lined boot guy. He would have been released sometime in late 1998 due to the fact that he had met Sarah McMahon through her sister in 1998 and this is detailed in the McMahon inquest report. He may well be the plastic-lined boot guy but he was still incarcerated at the time of the Claremont abductions and murders hence if it was Morey that Bayens referred to Caporn, it can be clearly seen why he was not to become a MACRO POI for Claremont.

I still doubt it was Morey that Bayens referred due to the fact there is no evidence that I have seen that shows Morey could be described as 'tall'.

I note that Morey's appearance at the McMahon inquest coincided with the anniversary date of the attempted murder in December 2003 he was convicted of perhaps a deliberate 'rattling of the cage' process was going on. He also received medical treatment (at the coroner's court) for a heart condition at the time he was giving evidence at the inquest. To me that shows he was under stress giving his evidence; it was not a breeze for him as described on this forum.

 

[papertrail]

Someone on a FB news story claimed to have seen it (but I don't have the link). She was not the Brentyboy poster you quoted. Lefty also saw it.

I believe a longer version was accidentally released and then replaced within a day.

Bret Christian describes yet another version of the video in this Post article, Murder suspect drove Holden wagon.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9ntidqi1gayimy0/AABtQA-5pkhnDxq6J7YuW5Cua?dl=0

What is different in Bret's description of video ?

 

[Sprintman]

This is an urban myth about Jane getting into a taxi being captured on the CIA footage. In the 'normal' CIA doc that we have all viewed ex youtube Jane is standing nearby the front of a taxi that a group of 4 (from memory) people get into. The thing is that Jane is captured still standing at the post after this taxi and people are no longer there. Simple as that.

Paper trail,
i wish I could be as certain about things as you appear to be but I call ******** on your claim that this footage doesn't exist. As I said it does not show her actually climbing into a taxi but the actions and times quoted by Brentyboy are the same as I what I saw and strongly suggests that she and the other group were making moves to get into whatever car pulled up. (it pulled in from Gugeri St after approaching from the East and this can be determined by the headlights that shine on the group as it makes the turn.) The sequence is from the southern camera not the northern camera. I have reviewed the CIA footage again and it does NOT show the footage I saw which was removed from the web after a very short time. What motivation do i have to make this up?

 

[Sutton]

What is different in Bret's description of video ?

...Jury is out for me but I remain sceptical. Brenty can't be trusted, nor could MyLeftFoot. Sutton posted that BC suggested this is the case but I couldn't find the article. I need to see more evidence that this footage exists...

The version described does not include Jane leaving by taxi. It does include one detail that we've never seen--a detail that suggests the author of the article saw a different version of the video.

We've never seen footage of MM walking past Jane and out of shot.

The article is the second CSK related article in this Post paper, it's on page 94. It is actually written by Louisa Harding and titled Who is the mystery man speaking to Jane Rinmer? Here is the link:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9ntidqi1gayimy0/AABtQA-5pkhnDxq6J7YuW5Cua?dl=0

(Sorry for my earlier error in claiming this was authored by Bret Christian.)

 

[Sprintman]

Thanks Bart. Yes I agree that people post for all sorts of reasons. I hesitated about bringing this information to the table for some time as I couldn't prove what I had seen until I saw the timeline by Brentyboy which correlates strongly with what I saw.(he may not be reliable but he got this piece of footage right). The group waiting for the taxi were just North of the pole where Jane was standing. Good questions that you pose and I agree with the premise of them all. I could only speculate about the answers as, since I'm not in LE, I don't have any understanding of the psychological game they would or could play.

Even with what I saw in the video there was still only the strong inference of a taxi or something that looked like one as you couldn't see the vehicle in the footage but the actions of all in the footage suggested it was a taxi or was something that looked like one, The group tried to hail it and then there was confusion over who was going to get in the vehicle with Jane ultimately moving forward. My opinion here is that he was parked somewhere East on Gugeri and saw her when she walked out and North on to the road to look to see if one was coming as you can see in the CIA footage.

1. Why would they focus on LW? I can only opine that Caporn was under so much pressure to get a result that he he was "doing" a Mallard OR LW had access to such a vehicle that they knew about.
2. Why focus on a Blitz attack? I don't know other than to suggest that they want to appear to be continuing to follow up on all avenues of inquiry and not resting on "old" theories that have proven fruitless to date, especially given the recent link to Karrakatta and the MO used for this crime.
3. The other group? Yes I wonder about that too.. Surely they would have had a good look at this vehicle and possibly even the driver..! I have to admit that I'm stumped on that one unless they did provide good information which only supported the Wapol case against LW. I read elsewhere that another witness ( the chap that discovered CG) was required to sign confidentiality clauses. Is this normal LE practice.?

 

[crabstick]

Geo spatial analysis is relatively new, so I agree with you Sutton, 99% of cases have no deliberate geo-spatial relevance. Remember hundreds of taxi drivers that use a UBD road directory were DNA tested.

Here is a radian map from the Zodiac killer

The most bizzare part of the Zodiac case is the geographical aspect. Zodiac sent a map of the Bay Area with one of his letters, and on top of Mt. Diablo was his zodiac symbol. Mt. Diablo is used as a center point for longitude and lattitude. Zodiac ended one of his letters with "P.S. the Mt. Diablo code concerns radians and inches along them": (VIEW #38). Zodiac used the term "radians". Not many people even know what what a radian is: (VIEW #39). Several years later, a man named Garth Penn took a map and connected the murder in San Francisco to the top of Mt. Diablo, and the connected the murders near Vallejo to the top of Mt. Diablo, and it made an angle of 57.3 degrees, a perfect radian angle: (VIEW #40). Jack used to take me camping when I was very young, and I remember the first thing he always did when we found our campsite was take his a.m. radio, his compass, and a map, and pinpoint our location. I never understood why pinpointing our location was so important until now. I took the radian theory a step further because Zodiac used the term "radians", indicating more than one. I realized that six radians + 16.2 degrees make a complete circle, and when placed on top of Mt. Diablo in accordance with the first radian discovered by Garth Penn, Jack is connected to the Zodiac murders: (VIEW #41). It even goes a step further. I began going through the list of possible Zodiac victims that Robert Graysmith had listed in his book, and other unsolved homicides that could have been the work of Zodiac. When I took a map of Northern California and marked the locations where these victims' bodies were found, I couldn't believe what I saw! Approximately eight out of ten of the victims' bodies were found along Zodiac's radians. It was just like Zodiac stated, "radians and inches along them": (VIEW #43). In July of 2001, this is one of the items found in Jacks storage. They are formulas referring to radians: (VIEW #44).

thezodiackiller.digitalzones.com

Disposing the bodies in locations they are likely/not likely to be found is different from positioning the bodies according to lay lines or angles.



What does "exposed to" mean? Some of the articles have been posted online. I READ them. Is that the same thing?



RSBM & BBM. Absolutely has never happened. Provide one case where this fanciful idea has ever occurred.

 

[crabstick]

So while the fact the two bodies vector the Claremont hotel. Janes body was discovered 180 degrees south of the GPO 35.55km

Two coincidences

Ciara is 44.55km from the GPO at 337 degrees.

 

[Foolio79]

Even with what I saw in the video there was still only the strong inference of a taxi or something that looked like one as you couldn't see the vehicle in the footage but the actions of all in the footage suggested it was a taxi or was something that looked like one, The group tried to hail it and then there was confusion over who was going to get in the vehicle with Jane ultimately moving forward. My opinion here is that he was parked somewhere East on Gugeri and saw her when she walked out and North on to the road to look to see if one was coming as you can see in the CIA footage.

I think you are refering to this video which has additional footage to the CIA doco.

https://youtu.be/hbbg-FVij4c.

Its does show the group of people appearing to hail a taxi and at first glance it seems that Jane steps out onto the street instead of them. But, if you look closely she is just obscured by the post and comes back into view at the very end.

I dont believe theres any other vid.

 

[Sprintman]

Foolio.. No I'm not referring to this footage. I guess unless you were lucky enough to see the section I'm talking about which was only up on the web for a very small time you will not know what I am talking about. The shot was taken from the southern camera NOT the North. It showed a separate group of people waiting just North of Jane. I had assumed more people had seen it but it seems that this isn't the case.

 

[crabstick]

http://thezodiackiller.digitalzones.com/

Disposing the bodies in locations they are likely/not likely to be found is different from positioning the bodies according to lay lines or angles.



What does "exposed to" mean? Some of the articles have been posted online. I READ them. Is that the same thing?



RSBM & BBM. Absolutely has never happened. Provide one case where this fanciful idea has ever occurred.

 

[Bartholemeus]

So while the fact the two bodies vector the Claremont hotel. Janes body was discovered 180 degrees south of the GPO 35.55km

Two coincidences

Ciara is 44.55km from the GPO at 337 degrees.

Even if it's not a coincidence (I have no opinion either way btw) what do you think there is to gain by hypothesizing the CSK exactly planned his dump spots? He could have just got a ruler and put it on his UBD and then went for a recon drive and decided on his dump sites.

It doesn't really get us any closer to who the CSK is.

 

[GreenDevil]

Given the circumstances surrounding JR's last known sighting, does anyone consider any other possibility other then she got into a car after accepting a lift. Ruling out a taxi due to fibers recovered on her body being from a VS commodore, surely she wasn't blitzed and no one witnessed it?

Can anyone provide a reasonable theory otherwise?

 

[Parkie]

A trip somewhere....

 

[Sprintman]

She wasn't blitzed Greendevil..99% confident of that. Just because falcons were the most common taxi doesn't mean they all were..I am happy to be proved wrong here with evidence...and even if she later came into contact with a commodore whilst being transported post mortem, that doesn't preclude being picked up by a falcon initially.

 

[Parkie]

I think he chose the dump sites before. He charms the girls if he can. If they feel unsafe he shows his ways. IMO they were not able to get out of his car. No way. IMO; He was not mucking around. Bit like the Church Lane Skirt rip off. He did not muck around. He would have had a go at any witnesses who questioned him. Now Look at what he did to the girl. Head Bashed. This was because of a brush off by her.Totally CSK for sure.

 

[Parkie]

Church Lane Bashing by the Lane, behind (south) Club Bay View is the CSK.