Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Peter Kurten]

She wasn't blitzed Greendevil..99% confident of that. Just because falcons were the most common taxi doesn't mean they all were..I am happy to be proved wrong here with evidence...and even if she later came into contact with a commodore whilst being transported post mortem, that doesn't preclude being picked up by a falcon initially.

Sprintman, I can recall seeing different footage of MM back in the Gary Hughes days... (08/09). However I didn't study it closer enough back then to notice the things you are saying. Can you confirm if there is footage of MM walking toward St Quentins Ave in the old footage?

 

[Sprintman]

Peter,
No I'm sorry I can't remember or confirm that.. I just remember the footage that showed what was confirmed in the timeline I posted earlier which was from the southern camera looking North. Unlike the CIA doc which shows her there one minute and gone the next, this footage showed much more of what happened in that missing timeslot.I have always wondered why it was removed so quickly and it is frustrating that nobody else seems to be able to confirm the existence of it. After seeing it I have never doubted that it was a taxi or something that looked like one in the case of SS and JR at least.

 

[crabstick]

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/Radians & Inches.htm
The geographic and geometric relationships created by the Zodiac locations and Mt. Diablo is not an interpretation or a theory but an undeniable fact. One may be tempted to dismiss these alignments as coincidence if the Zodiac had not sent a map with a crossed-circle on the peak of the one major benchmark in Northern California and cited instructions regarding radians and inches. The Zodiac claimed that the code which accompanied the map and letter would provide the information needed to identify and find a specific location. Until the code is deciphered, no one can know the Zodiac's true intentions but the alignments created by the scenes he chose to mark with murder indicates that these geographic and geometric relationships may be the product of deliberate design.

Disposing the bodies in locations they are likely/not likely to be found is different from positioning the bodies according to lay lines or angles.
What does "exposed to" mean? Some of the articles have been posted online. I READ them. Is that the same thing?
RSBM & BBM. Absolutely has never happened. Provide one case where this fanciful idea has ever occurred.

Yeah, just gave a couple of links to geo spatial analysis now used by police

Police would like to find another body for more reasons than just locating the body. So Im told. They are playin a game with police

The massive attention isnt because this is another David Birnie.

Even if it's not a coincidence (I have no opinion either way btw) what do you think there is to gain by hypothesizing the CSK exactly planned his dump spots? He could have just got a ruler and put it on his UBD and then went for a recon drive and decided on his dump sites.
It doesn't really get us any closer to who the CSK is.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Given the circumstances surrounding JR's last known sighting, does anyone consider any other possibility other then she got into a car after accepting a lift. Ruling out a taxi due to fibers recovered on her body being from a VS commodore, surely she wasn't blitzed and no one witnessed it?

Can anyone provide a reasonable theory otherwise?

The only other remotely plausible theory is she walked towards Rowe Park and was snaffled like the Karra victim. It was only 12am so you'd think someone sighted he as she walked Gugeri St. So this is possible but unlikely.

She could have gone west on Gugeri but there was car parks used by Conti patrons and you'd think that was too risky for the CSK. Besides, why would she walk in that direction? Possible but highly unlikely.

She could have crossed the railway bridge but why would she head in that direction? Possible but also highly unlikely.


She lived in Wembley which is not easy to get to from Claremont. She may have intended to go to her parent's house or maybe reconnect with her friends? At that time (12am) her only option was a taxi or a lift.


I think she had to have gotten into a car of some sort.

 

[Peter Kurten]

I think JR began to walk back to her friend's house along Stirling Highway. I believe she was abducted from Stirling Highway East of Claremont Town Centre. I also think MM is CSK.

 

[lavagirl]

Foolio.. No I'm not referring to this footage. I guess unless you were lucky enough to see the section I'm talking about which was only up on the web for a very small time you will not know what I am talking about. The shot was taken from the southern camera NOT the North. It showed a separate group of people waiting just North of Jane. I had assumed more people had seen it but it seems that this isn't the case.

I saw this footage early last year - though I can't remember from where but I'm pretty certain it would have been on the big footy thread. I'm sure I have posted on WS about what I saw.

I remember seeing a light/white car pull up. I remember the headlights shining and a group of people standing ahead of Jane who was at the pole. The girl in the group (who was wearing a long skirt) steps forward as if they are going to get inside the car. Jane turns to them, and maybe says something because then jane steps forward towards the car that pulled up as if she is going to get in it. Then the footage cuts.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Has anyone noticed the differences in some of the MM videos?


---------------------->

This one is standard footage. She's facing North as if she she hasn't decided what she is doing (pre MM). Then she is looking around as if maybe she's looking for a taxi or pick up (this is post MM). Then she is standing there looking South. One guy walks back into Conti and she starts to move (unsure whether this has prompted her). Then she keeps looking back at the door and also flicks her hair as if she's waiting for a specific person to leave.

At the end of this, a group do walk out and appear to hail a cab.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c&feature=youtu.be


--------------------->

This one is on ABC website. It shows JR facing North but she leans over her should to look at the door of Conti. I've always felt she stayed behind and stood outside hoping a specific guy she made eyes with came and approached her.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/videos/2008/08/29/2350183.htm


-------------------->

This is CIA episode. At 37:50 of the CIA epsiode she walks out onto BVT (pre MM). Why?

[video=youtube;4UzlYaa2D4w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UzlYaa2D4w[/video]

 

[crabstick]

They queried he hired a car even when he had lost his licence.
Cutler and LW were in a psych class together at uni?
Was it a panel van? I dont think we have been given a definitive type of vehicle? It is definitely a panel van?

Regarding LW;

How do you explain the commodore link when he drove a Hyundai?

Do you think he was involved with Julie Cutler? Apparently they were in the same class at uni.

How do you explain the panel van and shoulder lengthy hair from the Karrakatta rape?

Debi, Marshall, 2007. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2nd ed. Australia: Random House.

 

[Bartholemeus]

They queried he hired a car even when he had lost his licence.

This bit has never made sense to me.

As far as I recall;

LW got bought a new Hyundai Excel about a week before SS
He got his license back approx 2 days after SS having been suspended for years

He had a car. So why accuse him of hiring a car? Is it because the witness statements that CG was talking to a white station wagon?

Even though he had lost his license for a number of years he was doing a lot of driving.

 

[crabstick]

Hire cars are less identifiable with a driver? Hire cars go back to a company disposing of DNA evidence?
Someone may hire a car in anticipation of getting a licence back, in case the new car wasn't ready?
Someone did it because it wouldnt be expected.
Wonder why the licence was lost for so long?

This bit has never made sense to me.

As far as I recall;

LW got bought a new Hyundai Excel about a week before SS
He got his license back approx 2 days after SS having been suspended for years

He had a car. So why accuse him of hiring a car? Is it because the witness statements that CG was talking to a white station wagon?

Even though he had lost his license for a number of years he was doing a lot of driving.

 

[Sprintman]

I saw this footage early last year - though I can't remember from where but I'm pretty certain it would have been on the big footy thread. I'm sure I have posted on WS about what I saw.

I remember seeing a light/white car pull up. I remember the headlights shining and a group of people standing ahead of Jane who was at the pole. The girl in the group (who was wearing a long skirt) steps forward as if they are going to get inside the car. Jane turns to them, and maybe says something because then jane steps forward towards the car that pulled up as if she is going to get in it. Then the footage cuts.

Thanks Lavagirl...I was starting to think I was going crazy.. So was your impression from the vehicle and the actions taken by Jane and the others that this was a taxi or something that must have looked like one??

 

[Bartholemeus]

Wonder why the licence was lost for so long?

Multiple DUI instances. Didn't stop him driving though.

 

[crabstick]

Aaaaah, so he was a drinker!

Multiple DUI instances. Didn't stop him driving though.

 

[Sprintman]

He had a car. So why accuse him of hiring a car? Is it because the witness statements that CG was talking to a white station wagon?

Because WAPOL knew that a different car was involved from the footage that both Lavagirl and I have seen..

 

[Sutton]

The only references I've ever seen to this extended footage indicated it was available years ago. The videos that we are all familiar with are
1. Crime Investigation Australia episode that shows CCTV footage
2. Additional footage of 1:08/1:09 minutes, found on YouTube, uploaded by flect

If there is extended footage out there that was viewed within the last 12-18 months, then I think we'd all be blown away. Lavagirl and Sprintman, have y'all looked through the videos on BF to see if you can find this?

Do y'all want to split up the BF pages to search through? I can definitely help with this, and watch every single video on my assigned pages.

 

[Sutton]

Given the circumstances surrounding JR's last known sighting, does anyone consider any other possibility other then she got into a car after accepting a lift. Ruling out a taxi due to fibers recovered on her body being from a VS commodore, surely she wasn't blitzed and no one witnessed it?

Can anyone provide a reasonable theory otherwise?

I still consider a blitz attack a real possibility. I am probably 50/50 right now. These articles all give suggest additional sightings of Jane:

Jane Rimmer was thought to have been abducted walking east in Stirling Highway, Claremont.
Fourth serial killer victim

This article speculates Jane was seen walking down Stirling Hwy.
Club video yields clue

This article specifies the area between Bayview Terrace and Dalkeith Rd, and says 13 people reported seeing JR walking alone in Claremont.
Police are working their way

 

[Elwood_1]

Back in 1996 taxis and police cars were pretty plain in their packaging. Look at this old VK. Plain.

This is a Main Roads vehicle. This model is fitted with a number of two way radios, and would have a very busy center console that would look almost exactly like that of a taxi from outside of the vehicle. Transport Inspectors? Sounds official! Hop in...

And a couple of taxis.

There is a lot of extra embellishment on the new vehicles that wasn't on the old ones.

The Continental Hotel. Note the color of the lighting. Orange. Look what the taxi driver is wearing. And his haircut(!) Do you think you could tell the color of the side striping on the vehicles above in that? No chance. This taxi doesn't even have any apparent markings, except for the reflective sign (? magnetic = stealable) on the door. Note the roof mounted spotlights. This is an EA or EB model from around 1990.

I know a woman (Ex-insurance company executive, now a school teacher) who in October 1996 staggered out of a function in South Perth at 4.00pm on a Saturday afternoon, and said that she remembers getting into something that had lights on the top, but it could have been a fire truck for all she knew or cared. Luckily she made it home.

Scenario: Cover any specific 'Main Roads' markings. Wind down the window as you pull up, turn on the spotlights to obscure their vision, and yell 'Did you call a cab?' Semi drunk + midnight = gold. Most times you wouldn't even need to say anything. Just stop and turn on the lights. The victim would be in the car in a flash.

The MRDWA vehicles even had Government number plates, which were not unlike the Taxi plates, and usually a black numeric code on the door like the Taxi's did. Drop the vehicle back after the weekend's festivities.

Simples.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I saw this footage early last year - though I can't remember from where but I'm pretty certain it would have been on the big footy thread. I'm sure I have posted on WS about what I saw.

I remember seeing a light/white car pull up. I remember the headlights shining and a group of people standing ahead of Jane who was at the pole. The girl in the group (who was wearing a long skirt) steps forward as if they are going to get inside the car. Jane turns to them, and maybe says something because then jane steps forward towards the car that pulled up as if she is going to get in it. Then the footage cuts.

This is highly unlikely. The footage talked about was (allegedly) only available shortly after it was released in 2008.

If you have a look at the three different versions of footage I have posted, I suspect you saw the first on. I also suspect this is the footage others saw and maybe mistaken with exactly what they saw. Unfortunately this is the best explanation.

 

[Bartholemeus]

The only references I've ever seen to this extended footage indicated it was available years ago. The videos that we are all familiar with are
1. Crime Investigation Australia episode that shows CCTV footage
2. Additional footage of 1:08/1:09 minutes, found on YouTube, uploaded by flect

If there is extended footage out there that was viewed within the last 12-18 months, then I think we'd all be blown away. Lavagirl and Sprintman, have y'all looked through the videos on BF to see if you can find this?

Do y'all want to split up the BF pages to search through? I can definitely help with this, and watch every single video on my assigned pages.

It doesn't exist on BF. The MM video was discussed and analysed at length both here and on BF. If it existed we would have been all over it. This is the same as the claim that DM's book mentions the presence of chemicals at the sites - I know it doesn't exist because we would have been all over it if it did exist.

That's not to say it didn't exist for the first minutes of release in 2008 but this is unlikely IMO. I recall seeing that MM video as soon as it dropped and don't recall seeing JR walk towards a taxi. I think the most likely explanation is people saw this footage;

[video=youtube;hbbg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg...ature=youtu.be[/video]

And over time misinterpreted what they saw. This type of misinterpretation of memory is surprisingly common in humans. Our minds trick us all the time.

 

[crabstick]

Taxis were just a light bolted on the roof of a bog standard car. The issue is, someone like a panel beater could get hold of a wreck, bolt a taxi light on their roof and make a good quid without the burden of the ponzi scheme number plate borrowings of about $100000 plus interest. All the cabs were cash only.

Im still curious as to the communication method of the time. This would be, whether someone could tap into comms and who might be waiting, or whether they might have someone on the lookout to meet victims at the point they are.

Would Sarah call a cab, then within 6 minutes jump in someone elses car leaving the taxi company swinging in the wind in under 6 minutes? I wouldn't of thought so. So was a tax circling or was a taxi tapped into radio communications with scanner or similar?

Debi, Marshall, 2007. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2nd ed. Australia: Random House.

Many these taxis had done a million kilometres. You could pick one up at auction for a $100