Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

Bart I respect what you post but in this case you are wrong..

Firstly, I am not wrong. Let's be clear about that.

If you can find the video on BF then please let us all know. And then you are free to tell me I am wrong.

It does exist and has been described similarly by at least 3 people.

Two of whom are proven unreliable.

Based on lavagirls description I know she has also seen the same footage..

So you and Brenty Boy (known BS artist) saw this on the day it was released only to soon be removed? I'm not questioning your integrity but I can't rely on Brenty Boy's testimony because everything else he said at the same time was proven to be complete BS.

But lavagirl claims she saw it recently, maybe on BF. I'd strongly suggest she is mistaken.

It does exist but not in the public arena anymore. Having said this I won't be mentioning it again unless I can find it as there are obviously people who
1. Don't believe it exists
2. Don't want to believe it exists, or
3. Don't want others to believe it exists.
Either way I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this and people can take or leave the information as they wish.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater and start making claims that are inaccurate

1. Whilst I don't believe it exists, I haven't ruled it out. Furthermore, I know with certainty that it doesn't exist on BF as per what lavagirl thinks.
2. This comment is simply insulting. I follow the evidence. I'd love it to exist, as I'd love there to be DNA, but until I see it I remain in the "probably not" camp.
3. Also insulting. I have no history of pushing agendas inaccurately to back my own theories

Calm your farm please.

 

[papertrail]

why don't you make contact with Bret seeking clarification ?

 

[papertrail]

sprintman have a look at the FLECT footage which shows what I believe you are describing.

 

[Sutton]

why don't you make contact with Bret seeking clarification ?

Why don't you? I stated that I believe the journalist means one thing. You believe something else.

Your conclusion does not threaten my belief. I am sorry my conclusion is threatening your belief.

 

[papertrail]

Why don't you? I stated that I believe the journalist means one thing. You believe something else.

Your conclusion does not threaten my belief. I am sorry my conclusion is threatening your belief.

Lol; nothing you could say or do would ever put me in a position to consider that you would be threatening my belief.

 

[papertrail]

I saw this footage early last year - though I can't remember from where but I'm pretty certain it would have been on the big footy thread. I'm sure I have posted on WS about what I saw.

I remember seeing a light/white car pull up. I remember the headlights shining and a group of people standing ahead of Jane who was at the pole. The girl in the group (who was wearing a long skirt) steps forward as if they are going to get inside the car. Jane turns to them, and maybe says something because then jane steps forward towards the car that pulled up as if she is going to get in it. Then the footage cuts.

Look at the youtube FLECT video and the screen shots I posted here today - everything you describe is on that copy. Jane is still there after the cctv timestamp when this group of people enter the taxi and drive off

 

[Sprintman]

Bart
I'm not going to get into arguments about what is insulting and its not a personal attack on you at all either. Personally I can only claim you are wrong because what I saw doesnt match with what you and others are trying to tell me i saw. As I said i will only bring this up again if I can find the footage which unfortunately is unlikely. At this point all i can say is that if you have seen this footage you will have little doubt about what occurred. Peace!

 

[papertrail]

Why don't you? I stated that I believe the journalist means one thing. You believe something else.

Your conclusion does not threaten my belief. I am sorry my conclusion is threatening your belief.

Why don't I ? Because you are the one that is putting your proposition out there - shouldn't you check your facts first ?

 

[Sutton]

Why don't I ? Because you are the one that is putting your proposition out there - shouldn't you check your facts first ?

What facts? I've stated several times this is my belief. No one can know for sure. Each reader can reach their own conclusion.

You originally advised me to contact BC, who is not even the author, to see what the article referred to. I said I am not trying to convince anyone else my interpretation is correct, and have no reason to contact BC. Please back off.

 

[billywhizz]

there are only two versions

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...claremont-footage-released-20080828-4569.html
Police bungle as wrong Claremont footage released

the CIA doco and the other one on youtube that goes for 1min 09 seconds.

there is no third version that was released.

 

[billywhizz]

I saw this footage early last year - though I can't remember from where but I'm pretty certain it would have been on the big footy thread. I'm sure I have posted on WS about what I saw.

I remember seeing a light/white car pull up. I remember the headlights shining and a group of people standing ahead of Jane who was at the pole. The girl in the group (who was wearing a long skirt) steps forward as if they are going to get inside the car. Jane turns to them, and maybe says something because then jane steps forward towards the car that pulled up as if she is going to get in it. Then the footage cuts.

The footage you have described appears in the 1min 09 youtube video. There is no third version.

the moment MM gestures at JR the bouncer with his back to the main doors looks over at both of them. he tilts his head at an angle in order to do this and get a better view. he would have seen MM's face.

 

[Sutton]

I thought I would list a few of the characteristics the profiler, Kris Illingsworth, predicted of the CSK in the article, On the trail of a serial killer:

The killer had the social and verbal skills to ingratiate himself with the girls. He probably knew or had at least met Jane and Sarah.

He was likely a white, European male, late twenties to mid thirties. He was familiar with Claremont, but he didn't live there. He likely lived in between the disposal sites.

He has not been trained in the military. He probably drove a newer model vehicle.

He was and is viewed as trustworthy, charismatic, and charming. He might currently work in marketing or sales, and probably at management level, and with a good work record. He is probably in a stable relationship and does not have a domestic or street violence record.

Interesting. If true, this further eliminates several previous suspects--LW, SR, and PW.

 

[lavagirl]

Just to make it clear, I am not brentyboy or whoever his aliases are nor am I a troll. I've read all of CSK forums and blogs over the years, probably since I was a voguette (!) and came across Dr posting there. WS is the only one I've ever posted on.
I wish I could remember where I accessed this video from but I do remember it was definitely early last year as that's when there was a lot of activity and interest on the BF thread, Droc etc. I thought it was BF as I was reading this on a daily basis because there was always so much posting to catch up on.

It was the first time I watched the footage online and I didn't realise at the time it was not the "regular" version. I didn't know any better and I've never been able to find it since. If I knew, I would have taken a screen grabs. The only time I saw any video footage with Jane was on the CIA doco when I saw it on tv circa 2008 where they first showed MM.

 

[billywhizz]

Just to make it clear, I am not brentyboy or whoever his aliases are nor am I a troll. I've read all of CSK forums and blogs over the years, probably since I was a voguette (!) and came across Dr posting there. WS is the only one I've ever posted on.
I wish I could remember where I accessed this video from but I do remember it was definitely early last year as that's when there was a lot of activity and interest on the BF thread, Droc etc. I thought it was BF as I was reading this on a daily basis because there was always so much posting to catch up on.

It was the first time I watched the footage online and I didn't realise at the time it was not the "regular" version. I didn't know any better and I've never been able to find it since. If I knew, I would have taken a screen grabs. The only time I saw any video footage with Jane was on the CIA doco when I saw it on tv circa 2008 where they first showed MM.

can you please just watch this? no one said you were a troll.

[video=youtube;hbbg-FVij4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c[/video]

it's the one you are talking about.

if the only other time you saw footage was in the CIA doco, then the above one is what you are looking for.

please don't take offense, but there is no way you could have seen this other supposed version early last year otherwise we all would have seen it as well.

 

[Mel 1303]

The footage of Jane's last night at the Conti was shown to her family at the time of her disappearance. They saw more than we did:

A couple of days after she went missing the police had us watch a video of the Conti, (a
hotel in Claremont) of the people outside and inside. I could see Jane, going up the stairs,
down stairs, mingling with the crowd. The camera only went around every 3 minutes.
Then after the pub closed, or near closing, Jane was out the front and she looked like she
was looking for someone, she was looking at her watch - looking around - that lasted for a
few minutes and then the camera turned around and she wasn’t there, so she’s obviously
walked somewhere or been picked up by someone. (Long pause).

(From "Honoring Survival, page 64)

If this footage included Jane entering a car, surely the police would have shown the family that picture, and asked if the car looked familiar? On the CIA doc, it was claimed that the police had spoken to every single person pictured outside the Conti, except for MM. I find it hard to fathom that when they identified the people who supposedly stepped out to get into a taxi, but then stepped back when JR went forward, would not have said "Oh yeah, she was ahead of us waiting for a cab- she got in and we got the next one". Even if alcohol made their memories a bit hazy, surely the video would have helped?

I can see how a rogue taxi driver could have been operating in the area. I can see the rogue taxi driver cruising the streets, looking for vulnerable women who might not realise until inside the vehicle that she was not in a taxi. Where I run into a problem is that a rogue taxi would go up to the door of a pub, right in front of a bouncer (usually a young, sober man), and pick up someone he was planning to murder. If she did indeed get into a rogue taxi, it would make more sense for her to have walked away from the pub, and been picked up with a little less scrutiny.

My own opinion, of course.

 

[crabstick]

SO when they say he polished his car, its his OCD that compulsives him to keep his car immaculate?

There is no reference to they found cleaning objects or chemicals at the sites?

Debi, Marshall, 2007. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2nd ed. Australia: Random House.

I thought I would list a few of the characteristics the profiler, Kris Illingsworth, predicted of the CSK in the article, On the trail of a serial killer:

The killer had the social and verbal skills to ingratiate himself with the girls. He probably knew or had at least met Jane and Sarah.

He was likely a white, European male, late twenties to mid thirties. He was familiar with Claremont, but he didn't live there. He likely lived in between the disposal sites.

He has not been trained in the military. He probably drove a newer model vehicle.

He was and is viewed as trustworthy, charismatic, and charming. He might currently work in marketing or sales, and probably at management level, and with a good work record. He is probably in a stable relationship and does not have a domestic or street violence record.

Interesting. If true, this further eliminates several previous suspects--LW, SR, and PW.

 

[CSK?]

A little off the current topic, but can anyone tell me what year LW picked up the female undercover officer?

 

[crabstick]

Where is the image, someone claims Jane appears to hail a cab?

here is the next 5

 

[BenJones84]

SO when they say he polished his car, its his OCD that compulsives him to keep his car immaculate?

There is no reference to they found cleaning objects or chemicals at the sites?

My guess is that they found a substance at the scene such as gbl wheel cleaner... Generally, the only people who would use such a product are obsessive car cleaners. Kind of like if you found a top of the range computer graphics card, you could deduce that the owner is an avid computer gamer.

 

[billywhizz]

Andrew Mallard - (born 1963) is a British-born Western Australian. 34yo at time of murders.

Murderer No More: Andrew Mallard and the Epic Fight That Proved His ...
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=N3tS-RfEBHcC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=david+caporn+police&source=bl&ots=_P1Noeup-v&sig=3L9PkGHWfPHV_BTSDkR_kz4x58I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjo_rzj_LMAhWhJ6YKHTdjA9s4FBDoAQgrMAM#v=onepage&q=david%20caporn%20police&f=false

"But I do martial arts and it stems from meditation and concentration with my kung fu ... as well as discipline and mind power, plus I am also an artist and I work well with intricate designs. I do celtic art so I have to memorise diagrams and intricate designs to do that."

So we have Mallard who has been fitted up for a crime by corrupt police in 1995 and was in jail at time of CSK murders. He admits he does martial arts, is into celtic art and hangs out with a crew that is into Wicca. Obviously Mallard's associates would be angry if they knew he was innocent. Does anyone think he may have had a friend who was also the same age and from a wealthy UK family and also a MAP?

From same book:
Calling on his well-honed skills of deceiving people to improve his self-image, Andrew introduced himself as an english backpacker called Andre who was looking for friendly digs near Fremantle until funds came through from the old country. His tale worked on a friend of Michelle's at Gino's cafe, a popular hangout on Fremantle's cappucino strip.

Interview with author of said book:
He also stole a chalice from the convent down the road, 'cause he wanted to impress the girl he was staying with because he wanted to pretend he was a wizard who did wicca. He was acting quite erratically and ended up in Graylands Psychiatric Hospital.

SO

connection to a Michelle at Gino's cafe, similar to Droc's story. how many Michelle's were hanging out at Gino's regularly? sounds like the same crew of dope smokers to me. The book makes mention of Michelle being in possession of a bong at her house.

we also have synchronicity with Wicca, and girl who told Dr Dunn that CG would be murdered in ritual killing near Eglinton.

"Neil Fearis receives a visit from Perth GP Dr Andrew Dunn. He has information to pass on, he says, that has been given to him by a female patient whom he does not name. He has gone to the police with the information, he tells Fearis, but they have not taken him seriously. This patient has told him that Ciara is being held captive in a house where black magic rituals will take place to appease the gods at the autumnal equinox. Come the Easter long weekend, she will be offered up as a human sacrifice, like the sacrificial lamb. Fearis, too, passes the information to the Macro taskforce. 'We were all so desperate to get Ciara back,' he recalls. 'But they didn't take the information at all seriously, so unbeknown to Denis Glennon, whom we knew did not need this extra stress, we hired private detective Mick Buckley to keep watch on the house in the hills for three days.'

After leaving the police force, Buckley became a private investigator in 1983. 'I got a phone call around 6 pm on Easter Thursday,' he recalls, 'asking me to start surveillance surveillance on this female patient. The information was that Ciara Glennon's murder would take place at The Spot in Yanchep. "


Bart is 100% confident a knife was used on CG and JR. Knife is known as a tool for Wiccan ritual killings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_tools_in_Wicca

This could also be why we have so many mentals coming on here playing cryptic clues about Iona, victims locations forming a cross, celtic symbols, old english meanings of the girls names etc.

Whether Droc's story was true or not -

Does anyone find it weird this Gino's cafe connection and a Michelle have turned up in both of these cases? The timeline of hanging out there matches up. Is it the same one?

Book makes mention that Michelle wears hippie dresses and is into Wicca -
"With dark hair and a slim figure, she dressed in the hippie garb favoured by Fremantle's alternative set. She smoked dope, played music and dabbled in Wicca".

At around 12:03:10 two gentleman and a woman in a long flowing skirt walk out of the club. - JR CCTV vid


Are these people all in the same crew? Was Simon Rochford known to them? He was also from UK although in jail at time of murders.