Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

Hi all, back from our trip and have caught up on all the latest good sleuthing work you've all been doing. I saw this article and thought it quite apt as several posters have been talking about CSK having to be home before daylight for his girl friend, partner, spouse. These women were all married to vicious serial killers and yet seemed to have no clue about what was going on. Like I said previously, you can be working/living with a monster and not know about their double life!

https://www.stayathomemum.com.au/true-crime-series/the-wives-of-a-serial-killers/

It was brought up that it's possible that the CSK had to be home before sunrise. Certainly dump the bodies by daylight, maybe be home by daylight.

I haven't looked at your link but how many of them were out all night killing, dumping and then rolling in at daylight? Unless there's the cover of nightwork, it's going to get pretty suspicious to your partner if everytime there's a serial murder you're rolling in at breakfast.

In the case of LW - apparently he was emancipated by his Mum. Treated like a primary school-ager. Sent to bed without dinner if he was naughty type of thing. Police noticed he went out at precisely the same time every night and the only time this changed were sometimes he went out at another precise time (i.e. It was nearly always 11:50pm, but sometimes precisely 12:30am. No other times). The most likely reason; his mother was so controlling he had to leave after she went to bed. She probably went to bed every night at 11:30 but sometimes she stayed up to watch a rerun of Carson's Law so he had to delay until 12:30. I'd say a guy like this would have to be back before his parents wake up.

 

[88mph]

If the MM footage is legit (as in they don't know who he is) then I half get it. Macro claimed that getting that footage out early in the piece would have created tunnel vision, and I agree. If people thought MM was the CSK then many would subconsciously rule people out who don't fit the description and potentially miss cues. But 12 years? Even if they were always confident that MM was not important, they might have had a shot after 3 or 4 years. Unfortunately Caporn is a one-eyed sort of guy evidence wise and had a track record of not bringing anything to light that may put doubt in the minds of jurors down the track.

But the cars. Again, I agree that it's important not to induce tunnel vision in the public, but 12 years is way too long to sit on that information. I don't understand why after a number of reviews it wasn't suggested to release that information at some stage?

Then there's the issue with the fibres. Lost. Found. Lost. Found. Just doesn't seem a plausible set of events.

It seems logical that there should be an inquest but Macro are somehow able to convince this not to go ahead. Is their argument that they have an ongoing operation based on a truck load of lies and to have an inquest would expose the lies and effectively end the operation?

The only way an inquest could be held off on my opinion is that they know who the CSK is but can't prove it.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Let's not forget Dave Caporn was on the task force for an extensive period of time. By 2004, he had pretty much resigned to the fact the case would not be solved.

"But it's a matter of history that all over the world there will be crimes that are not resolved."

 

[lampformypath]

Hmm.... wonder if "mother knows best" and she didn't want to believe "her boy" could do anything so evil? We just don't know what goes on behind closed doors. It's just fascinating how so called "ordinary" people can lead such abnormal double lives and balance the two at the same time, very disturbing.

 

[Sutton]

I posted a link earlier.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. I did read the article at your link, but I wanted to make sure the news footage didn't contain additional information. Details on Kerry Turner are so hard to find.

Sutton maybe go to the Ch 7, 9 & 10 websites in Perth & maybe you can view footage there. Might have to wait till the morning, I really don`t know.

Thanks for alerting me to this coverage. I have searched for info on Kerry's death many times. I will look for the footage.

 

[Sutton]

In the case of LW - apparently he was emancipated by his Mum. Treated like a primary school-ager. Sent to bed without dinner if he was naughty type of thing. Police noticed he went out at precisely the same time every night and the only time this changed were sometimes he went out at another precise time (i.e. It was nearly always 11:50pm, but sometimes precisely 12:30am. No other times). The most likely reason; his mother was so controlling he had to leave after she went to bed. She probably went to bed every night at 11:30 but sometimes she stayed up to watch a rerun of Carson's Law so he had to delay until 12:30. I'd say a guy like this would have to be back before his parents wake up.

RSBM.

Is it possible the characterization of LW's mom is exaggerated? Has anyone seen her in action (giving an interview, etc.)? I've read quotes she's given to different journalists and she doesn't seem completely overbearing.

LW would not have had to worry about getting back home by sunrise for SS or JR's murders. He was living in his own unit from sometime in 1995 through September of 1996.

(I have a timeline for LW, but I want to include information from the interview he gave when he talked about his friend's death. I can't remember what article that was in (it may be in The Devil's Garden, but I am trying to find the original source). I will post the timeline in a few days.)

 

[Bartholemeus]

"But it's a matter of history that all over the world there will be crimes that are not resolved."

Read: "I failed but hey, so do heaps of other people and my legacy shouldn't be judged on this"


Note from public: your legacy has been judged on using underhand tactics to send the wrong man to jail. You hid the truth to further your career. You didn't flinch at putting an innocent man in jail.

 

[Bartholemeus]

RSBM.

Is it possible the characterization of LW's mom is exaggerated? Has anyone seen her in action (giving an interview, etc.)? I've read quotes she's given to different journalists and she doesn't seem completely overbearing.

Of course it's possible. Police realise a gain if this is exaggerated in that it makes them appear justified for having tunnel vision on LW. It's possible they lied to DM when they told her Lance was treated like a child in the confines of their home. They also could have lied when they said after the Williams' home was searched or Lance was interrogated, it was never spoken about. Just straight back to business as if it didn't happen and there wasn't an elephant in the room. DM was told by police that as soon as they left they didn't talk about it. Not even a "wish they'd leave us a alone" or "Lance, are you sure you're not involved". If true, maybe they knew they were being listened to?

But Lance lived at home most of his life and lacked social skills. It's also not unusual for mother's to be over bearing and not much of a stretch that she may appear normal externally but overbearing privately.

My money is on it being accurate.

LW would not have had to worry about getting back home by sunrise for SS or JR's murders. He was living in his own unit from sometime in 1995 through September of 1996.

(I have a timeline for LW, but I want to include information from the interview he gave when he talked about his friend's death. I can't remember what article that was in (it may be in The Devil's Garden, but I am trying to find the original source). I will post the timeline in a few days.)

Let me check my time line;

December 1995 to June 1996

Yep - so living alone for first two.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Nine CCTV cameras were installed in the central area of the Town of Claremont in August 1997. Thecameras were installed as part of ongoing WA Police operations into the Claremont Murders. The WA State Government provided $150 000 to fund installation of thecameras.In 2000 the Macro Task Force investigating the homicides informed the Town of Claremont that thecameras were no longer required for its investigation. The Macro Task Force ended its management ofthe cameras in July 2001. The Town of Claremont opted to continue using the CCTV system in theinterests in public safety and security.

Claremont WA 1997 - PTZ Colour - Enhanced Quality

Source: Department of Criminology, University of Melbourne

 

[Frankie1972]

Frankie,

How busy was it in the immediate vicinity of the bus stop? Were people entering or exiting Hungry Jacks , trying to catch cabs from your side of the Highway, or walking past you?

i do not remember seeing anyone around the bus stop or walk pass us that night. HJ I could not say.

 

[Frankie1972]

Hey Lamp, Lances Mum didn`t have a clue what he was up to.

how you know that Perkie? Do you know the Mum. Please tell.

 

[Frankie1972]

Billy I feel there is someone near the Roe corner. Could smell him for 2 months 3 years ago or more. Was not the Tellow plant. Bit hard to look atm.

<modsnip> did you take a little time out and fine out what the smell was. I think you should tell macro.

 

[StarrChance]

Kerry Turner news article

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...d/news-story/5fc90319ac3f97ce0eeb3127df726998

Kerry, 18, didn&#8217;t have enough money to take a taxi all the way home to Bickley so the cabbie dropped her outside an all-night cafe in East Victoria Park.
She was stranded and alone with no way to get home. Minutes later, she was walking across Shepperton Road when a car sped up and stopped behind her.
&#8220;The person in the car called out and Kerry turned around and walked back to the car, spoke to the person, and then got in the car and left and that was the last time she was seen alive that we know of,&#8221; John Turner, Kerry&#8217;s father, told Radio 6PR.
Police hunted for the vehicle, described by witnesses as a dark blue car, similar to a Datsun 260C, which had spoked wheels, but came up empty-handed.
It was one of the few leads they had into Kerry&#8217;s disappearance.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Interesting. KT lived in Bickley and likely would have only got in if she thought she was being taken to Bickley. At some point the killer would have had to overpower her. If it was soon after she got in the car then he could have driven straight to dump site. if it was close to her home then there's other dump sites on the way which would suggest he's familiar.

I wonder if her dump site was the kill site?

I also wonder, and maybe people more knowledgeable about serial killers can let us know, what is typical of a car abduction? Do killers usually overpower early, or wait a while, or is there no discernible pattern? Is there a common method for overpowering?

Why the recent media coverage? Is it as simple as the 25th anniversary so the parents are making an appeal? Or are SCS also wondering if this might be early CSK?


This murder happened in 1991. The dump site is similar but I believe that would be a pretty common dump site for most murders (in the bush on the outskirts of the city). It would also mean the CSK went from murder to sex assaults back to murder - but this is not unusual from what I have read. Or it's possible the sex attacks are not the CSK.

Going on the geo-location theory posted early, if this were the CSK it would point to a SOR location.

I did read one piece where a professional profiler believed the CSK had already done his apprenticeship prior to the Claremont killings. His rationale was the killings were so clean, organised and untraceable that it would be unlikely his first kills. Cutler maybe. Turner maybe. Possible I guess.

 

[lampformypath]

Just looked up Peter Kurten, oh my Lord, what a totally evil man! I felt physically sick reading it, how depraved! Love your deep research Ben, fantastic!

 

[billywhizz]

Peter Kurtin
Thu 31 May 07 (06:40pm)

There is a strong link between the serial homicide film &#8220;copycat&#8221; (1995) and the way that the Claremont Serial Killer has imitated previous Perth Serial Killers.




this is in the gary hughes blogs. from 2007. 9 years ago.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...an/comments/uk_link_in_wa_serial_murders/desc

 

[Parkie]

So JC to CG is 46.5 km`s ? One radian is 57.29 degrees as you will know.

 

[Bartholemeus]

So JC to CG is 46.5 km`s ? One radian is 57.29 degrees as you will know.

The distance is irrelevant. It's all about the angle. I don't have a protractor but from the eye the angle between JC, the axis determined by the CG/JC radian somewhere out near Mundaring, and JR looks more around 40 degrees. Then there's a lot of doubt JC is connected and a lot of doubt the CSK was using radians or any other than pattern other than creating a red herring with CG's dump site.

 

[c4rtm4n]

I don't understand Ben's radian diagram. What is the centre point for the radian and why there? What is the significance?

 

[Bartholemeus]

I don't understand Ben's radian diagram. What is the centre point for the radian and why there? What is the significance?

There's a theory that Zodiac dump his bodies at locations forming radian angles 57.29 degrees or thereabouts. But it is just a theory. The Zodiac did hint in one of his letters to LE that he was using radians either for his dump sites or abduction points. But it's just as likely he was taunting police with a dead end, just as he sent them an encrypted puzzle that no one in the world has been able to solve to date (hint hint, it can't be solved he's he's messing with LE)

The centre point is determined by working out a radian angle between CG dump site and JC assumed dump site.

I don't understand the relevance of the next 2 images in his post, not the cable.

The link to Copycat film suggests maybe the CSK is copying Zodiac.


Some thoughts;

1. We'd have to assume Macro looked into this and found no evidence of a link
2. We don't know if JC is a CSK victim (50% proposition at best IMO)
3. We don't know if that's where JC was dumped. He car was, but was she? We don't even know if her killer was the one who put her car in the surf.
4. For radian theory to be correct, JR's body would have to be 57.29 degrees from JC using that axis point. (does anyone want to check this out?)
5. We don't even know the veracity of this Radian theory in regards to Zodiac. But if the theory is documented I guess the CSK could have copied it or attempted to "do it right"