Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Foolio79]

Would anyone find it interesting that a potential POI had a facebook photo folder titled "Silence of the Lambs"? Could of course be completely innocent but still an interesting choice for someone with a connection to the case. It was subsequently deleted.

 

[Sutton]

in regards to how the girls simple just vanished
a friend of her indoors [ the misses] attended iona and new both ciara and sarah, one question i asked her was do you think the girls would except a lift ,her answer was maybe as taxies were scarce and most people at the conti new each other through school, work ,family e .t.c , she also said her friends would head for home down stirling hwy on foot and hail the first taxi that came along, this got me thinking that maybe ciara was heading for home on foot down stirling hwy planning to hail the first taxi that came along and was offered a lift, this would make more sense than a blitz attack, if the the girls new taxies were scarce and were offered a lift by somebody they met earlier in the night,i think parkie mentioned the OBH or somebody with a connection to the tight nit community, they may except . so if this was the case and the girls got in a car, who did they except a lift from ? was it MM

I can definitely see this happening with Sarah. She was young, she may not have known there was a sex offender stalking those streets. And one of the few stories that we know about her is she was friendly towards strangers--Steve Ross said she met a new friend I his taxi the previous evening. Not that SR's account is completely trustworthy. But the story was verified by someone else (I'll track that down).

 

[Foolio79]

I think its a definite possibility. It would also explain why the offender had to graduate to murder in order to avoid being identified.

 

[BenJones84]

Would anyone find it interesting that a potential POI had a facebook photo folder titled "Silence of the Lambs"? Could of course be completely innocent but still an interesting choice for someone with a connection to the case. It was subsequently deleted.

I saw that also a while ago. I always wondered if it was a coincidence that Don Spiers was a sheep shearer... Pretty sure JM's farm would be under constant surveillance. I also don't think it was a coincidence that they included him in the CSK Documentary.. pretty sure he was put in there on purpose to see if any women came forward who recognized him. He is clearly a highly narcissistic psychopath and I would imagine likely a sadist. He also has the strength & ability to quickly grab any girl off the street.... being a judo expert and all.

Without having met these people, my original guess was AD but now I think he is just a massive attention seeker. I also don't think he has the guts to pull off killings like these... plus he works as a GP which is not a normal job for a psychopath. AD is more on the Autism spectrum where as JM is clearly a psychopath.

That being said... the person who killed these girls positioned their bodies exactly in a line with the Conti Hotel.... and we all know who loooves the Conti as well as maps and co-ordinates.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I always wondered if it was a coincidence that Don Spiers was a sheep shearer...

Because the CSK was a fan of SotL and sought out a sheep shearer's daughter?

Pretty sure JM's farm would be under constant surveillance.

We don't know if he's still a suspect.

He is clearly a highly narcissistic psychopath and I would imagine likely a sadist.

Do you have some info that we're unaware of? Last time I checked he was "possible" rather than "clearly".

Without having met these people, my original guess was AD but now I think he is just a massive attention seeker.

While AD is into martial arts he's nowhere near the age profile of MAP and didn't live locally (as far as I know). It's unlikely AD is MAP.

That being said... the person who killed these girls positioned their bodies exactly in a line with the Conti Hotel.... and we all know who loooves the Conti as well as maps and co-ordinates.

Please share.

 

[northwest]

in regards to how the girls simple just vanished
a friend of her indoors [ the misses] attended iona and new both ciara and sarah, one question i asked her was do you think the girls would except a lift ,her answer was maybe as taxies were scarce and most people at the conti new each other through school, work ,family e .t.c , she also said her friends would head for home down stirling hwy on foot and hail the first taxi that came along, this got me thinking that maybe ciara was heading for home on foot down stirling hwy planning to hail the first taxi that came along and was offered a lift, this would make more sense than a blitz attack, if the the girls new taxies were scarce and were offered a lift by somebody they met earlier in the night,i think parkie mentioned the OBH or somebody with a connection to the tight nit community, they may except . so if this was the case and the girls got in a car, who did they except a lift from ? was it MM

To say that there was a clique amongst the patrons at the Claremont pub/clubs would be an understatement. It was the domain of the local or regular. Largely speaking if you didn't live around there you didn't go. I've always believed that the person(s) responsible for these crimes were known to their victims

 

[Bartholemeus]

One school of thought is that the CSK is someone famous. When I say famous I'm talking <modsnip>. A well known face, especially one that is on Perth TV would immediately invoke trust.

With the whole local venue etc - the girls ranged in age from 18 to 27. That's actually a fair gap and as small pool as the western suburbs are, that's starting to stretch it a bit. Possible but I'm still leaning towards the victims didn't know their killer.

 

[northwest]

That school of thought could apply to Perth in that era......especially with local radio DJ's and people that would have been singing in bands etc. that were semi famous and still front and centre in the local pub/club scene. Some still appear on TV to this day.

If they didn't know their killer then only 2 possibilities I believe can be assumed, the vehicle they got into (if they did) was a trustworthy vehicle i.e. Taxi, police or they were abducted from the street at random and then placed in a vehicle as per the 1995 rape.

My belief is that they knew the person in the car......at least enough to feel safe.

 

[BenJones84]

Why don't they just show the Karakatta rape victim all the prime suspects photos and get her to identify him? Surely they must have been able to rule out all the existing suspects from this alone... and the DNA.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Why don't they just show the Karakatta rape victim all the prime suspects photos and get her to identify him? Surely they must have been able to rule out all the existing suspects from this alone... and the DNA.

1. She apparently didn't see the abductor/rapist
2. We don't know if they actually have DNA

There was a lot of other local sexual assaults leading up to the Claremont killings. I'd hope Macro have followed up with all victims and both shown them photos of suspects and asked them to describe their attackers. Ditto for the person who witnessed a guy masturbating in Rowe Park.

Ask yourself this question; What are the chances the CSK is unknown to police? What are the chances of him stopping when he's not even a suspect? What are the chances the police would just go through the motions if they had no idea who he was?

I think it's possible he's a complete unknown but think it's unlikely.

 

[northwest]

I'm still amazed that WAPOL didn't just pin it on someone and run with it to the DPP. That had been their MO for many years and even up to the events in Claremont this is how WAPOL conducted most of their high profile cases. We saw a return to that with the Rayney murder.

I also cant believe that with the amount of interviews they have conducted over the years that some of those people haven't surfaced online or elsewhere to tell their story.

 

[northwest]

Been reading through old posts, Marmion wasn’t sent through to Yanchep until 2008 (or at least that’s when it opened) it was extended from Quinns Rd before this but only as Merriwa and Butler were developed.
The only way to CG dump site was off Wanneroo Road…..unless we want to assume that the killer may have driven over 4wd tracks from Quinns to Eglington (unlikely)
They either took Marmion Ave North and could have travelled East to Wanneroo Rd from Karrinyup Rd/Morley Dr all the way through to Hester (apart from Reid Hwy) or the Mitchell Fwy and come off at any exit from Karrinyup Rd to Ocean Reef Rd where the Freeway ended at that point.
From that point the killer could have used Marmion again but would have to have travelled onto Wanneroo Rd at some point to access the site….again unless he was a very capable 4wd’er and owned such a vehicle. If meticulous planning was part of it then the 4wd is not going to be an option at all.
I would actually like to know if Main Roads had CCTV on major roads/intersections in 96/97. If CG and JR were killed and dumped on the same night then the traffic at that time would be extremely light.

 

[silver tongue]

To say that there was a clique amongst the patrons at the Claremont pub/clubs would be an understatement. It was the domain of the local or regular. Largely speaking if you didn't live around there you didn't go. I've always believed that the person(s) responsible for these crimes were known to their victims

yes there is a chance the CSK new his victims.if the attacks were by a killer looking for an easy target then why choose the same place three times .twice in the same place could be put down luck on the attackers behalf. but three times out side the conti beggers belief either the CSK was an outsider and willing to take huge chances to target a certain type of victim or the girls new him

 

[northwest]

yes there is a chance the CSK new his victims.if the attacks were by a killer looking for an easy target then why choose the same place three times .twice in the same place could be put down luck on the attackers behalf. but three times out side the conti beggers belief either the CSK was an outsider and willing to take huge chances to target a certain type of victim or the girls new him

I agree 100% I don't see why people think it would be a stretch for someone who knew the girls to pull up and say "hi xxxxxx where are you heading, jump in I'll give you a lift home" no screaming or tussle in the street for that to occur. Quick detour to quiet area and attack/assault occurs.

 

[Bartholemeus]

yes there is a chance the CSK new his victims.if the attacks were by a killer looking for an easy target then why choose the same place three times

The most likely answer is the CSK had some sort of mental tie to Claremont. He could have mixed it up a bit and abducted from Subiaco, Fremantle, Northbridge etc

To know all 3 victims means;

1. He was either stalking them on the night (unlikely) or he was cruising the streets regularly and waiting until he came across girls he knew (possible but still a stretch)
2. He had to know a wide range of girls. Even though SS and CG went to the same school there was a 9 year age gap. JR went to a public school (HSHS) and wasn't part of the private school set. Not of the girls had jobs that overlapped. Most likely the girls had nothing in common other than frequenting Claremont and being relatively young. It's a fair stretch for a guy to be across all 3 girls without the police uncovering the link.

I'd be very surprised if the CSK knew all 3. Possible but a more likely scenario is he convinced them to get in his car.

 

[Foolio79]

Maybe he only knew one or two of the victims? Theres no reason he couldnt have used a combination of MO's.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Well if Karra is in fact linked then there's a change in MO's right there. I think the chances are less than 1% that SS was blitz attacked. For every girl he may have known (most likely by coincidence) it normalises his strike rate. 3 out of 3 has always been a stretch but 2 out of 2 or 1 out of 1 is not so much a stretch.

 

[northwest]

I don't see why it simply couldn't be a confident guy who was a well known "face" in that scene who had either been chatting to the girls on the night or have seen them around enough to be recognised by them. If I am to believe that LW is the prime suspect then I'd need to ignore all that has been said about him being a loner/social outcast. From what I have heard he might have been seen driving around and he may have offered a lift to an undercover D but how many times did he offer lifts and was seen? How many times was he seen to park up on the periphery of Claremont and wait or loiter on the streets? If he wasn't often stopping to offer lifts often then his strike rate for when he did must have been around 100%.......either that's accurate and he is the guy or the maths tells us its extremely unlikely. When DM in her book said he was stalking women, what did she mean? That he drove slowly while they walked from pub to club? He followed them home? unlikely the 2nd option as it's written he kept the same route continuously. If its the first then we have a lot of stalkers in Perth.......they just call it doing bog laps.

More likely he is confidence man and is not only good at striking up a conversation but is easy enough on the eye that girls would be interested.

 

[silver tongue]

maybe thats why all three girls peeled of from their freinds

 

[aequitas]

If I recall I remember seeing that in the CIA documentary re Jane. It was the type of behaviour a girl might engage in if they planned/hoped to hook up with a particular guy at the end of the night. IMO I don't think a girl would do that if they didn't already have a particular person in mind they were keen on. I really hope this horrible mystery is solved asap! Someone has to onow something. Think how many years Paul Onions' crucial statement stayed buried re Milat due to police incompetence.