Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[silver tongue]

reg DNA testing
you can be DNA tested for driving under suspension

 

[Look4Clues]

I had to drive by Railway Rd & KK on the way to an appointment today - and the more I think about it, the more all this makes sense re the CSK meeting JR at some stage near where she worked in Carrington Street Nedlands.

In the Conti Hotel CTV, it was obvious she was waiting for someone, seen checking her watch just after midnight. Then MM appeared and she looked very pleased to see him - disappeared shortly afterwards.

According to a newspaper report, some Uni students said they saw JR the night she went missing "staggering" along Stirling Highway close to Loch Street, Claremont. (see attached article).

If it was JR, the word "staggering" doesn't add up (after looking up the true definition of "staggering" - she actually looked sober and alert in the video footage).

Perhaps she had met MM just after midnight, had been taken to the abandoned building in Government Rd, attacked and/or drugged or attacked - and had escaped, walking or "staggering" down Loch Street in a state of shock. He may have followed her as did happen with the girl who was taken to the Lakeway, assaulted, escaped and was followed and abducted again.

Article and Google Earth map attached... Stock Bros Monumental Centre, JR's place of employment and KK Cemetary all in close proximity on the map...

Popped down to Government Rd in Nedlands and can confirm that there is a very well utilised entrance to the childcare centre (where JR worked) on the Government Road side - with plenty of parking this appears to be the main access point and very likely that staff utilised this entrance.

It is also quite close to the vacant building which is now Stock Bros Monumental Centre - this is marked on the map. In fact there could have been quite a few empty buildings back in the 90's. For those not familiar with the area the green space directly opposite is KK.

One thing which really stood out is that you can actually view the entrance to the Childcare centre from within KK.

Also Loch street train station is very close in the event of JR ever catching the train to work.

There is also a very large City of Nedlands depo at the corner of Broome and Carrington Street - we could perhaps consider that the Accused may have done some Telstra work in the area through the depo??

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

RE: ClaremontGhost hints - the one of the plant.....

IMO the plant looks more like an un-loved Bonsai tree.

Hints mentioned:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-4/page60

Post #890 by papertrail

Bonsai Pic courtesy of:

http://www.bonsaipalace.net.au/

(Not implying association between case/CSK and Bonsai Palace - just pic for comparison)

Plus I think the white fames could be windows with a stripy awning above, and one window seems slightly open (pushout/winder style window - not slider)

 

[CSK?]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

The Birnies tried stalking a prospective victim, a receptionist(?), but attack was thwarted by victim getting her hubby/partner/BF to come into her work. The recent doco on the Birnies discussed this stalking....

 

[MyLeftFoot]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

I have to say I agree with most of what you say CSK?..I say "most" because I believe there is more compelling evidence in that footage and I also think we were given crap footage on purpose as a previous poster has eluded to seeing a much better quality version. I think the mystery of Jane's disappearance is right there on that film..and she had earlier contact with MM and that is with whom she left with!( IMO of course!) It's all right there...in the footage!

 

[Spinnaker]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

Thanks CSK?, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion as are we. The Accused is a very IT literate person and I have no doubt that there was/is an online footprint.

I also feel that the connection for JR and Karrakatta is a valid line of reasoning. Sorry, but I am going to still pursue 'thinking outside the box' at times. Sure beats the continual conversation on disputing the DNA evidence! Thank goodness there are some very knowledgeable people on here giving sound reasoning in response to these disputed theories.

 

[Look4Clues]

Thanks Spinnaker, I agree entirely.

Incidentally, this comment from Spinnaker just reminded me of the famous 1993 "West Memphis 3 Case" in the US (which I followed very closely and actually became close friends with one of the defence attorneys).

Everyone was so fixated on the murders of the three boys being the result of a satanic ritual killing - because intimate parts of the boys' bodies were found to be dismembered.

Much later evidence in 2007 proved that the bodies were dismembered because of post mortem animal predation whilst drowned in water - yet no-one had bothered to think outside the box at the time - until they bought in forensic experts and lawyers from New York after raising funds for the defence.

Fresh minds often see the big picture more clearly.

Thanks CSK?, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion as are we. The Accused is a very IT literate person and I have no doubt that there was/is an online footprint.

I also feel that the connection for JR and Karrakatta is a valid line of reasoning. Sorry, but I am going to still pursue 'thinking outside the box' at times. Sure beats the continual conversation on disputing the DNA evidence! Thank goodness there are some very knowledgeable people on here giving sound reasoning in response to these disputed theories.

 

[GreenE]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

I am a believer in the 'random attack' theory over the 'befriend the victim' for all victims other than Huntingdale. The reason is CG and SS appear to have been random. It seems SS method worked and I reckon he felt comfortable to do this again, which is partly why JR was so soon after.

Dido? I don't see it as a link myself...but I guess I'm no expert.

On Karrakatta Cemetery in general, what kind of vehicle access did it have in the late hours in 1996? Could anyone just drive right in there?

 

[Look4Clues]

We don't even know for certain that SS was taken by the CSK who took JR and CG, it's just a theory at this stage.

Anything is possible IMO.

I am a believer in the 'random attack' theory over the 'befriend the victim' for all victims other than Huntingdale. The reason is CG and SS appear to have been random. It seems SS method worked and I reckon he felt comfortable to do this again, which is partly why JR was so soon after.

Dido? I don't see it as a link myself...but I guess I'm no expert.

On Karrakatta Cemetery in general, what kind of vehicle access did it have in the late hours in 1996? Could anyone just drive right in there?

 

[Flashman]

JR's father worked for Asgard which was part of the Sealcorp group of companies.

Interesting. Although JR was a childcare worker, does anyone know if she may have also worked there (maybe part time / or for a period)?

Relates to a story originating from Telstra techies which I won't post.


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[Sloofski]

If I'm not wrong, the events took place around long weekends.... I reckon with a bit of self-sleuthing, I could work out where I was and who I was with on, say, Labour Day 1996 or Queen's Birthday 1995 etc.

No I'm not 100% sure it's BREs DNA but as he's been arrested and charged with 2 murders and 2 assaults, it's not hard to join the dots.

I think the role of familial DNA here is that it led police to BRE.

With only public holiday was Australia Day SS..
KK 1/2/95 (26/1/95); SS 26/1/96; JR 9/6/96 (2/6/96);
CG 14/3/97 (3/3/97) * brackets are closest public holiday

 

[CP345]

With only public holiday was Australia Day SS..
KK 1/2/95 (26/1/95); SS 26/1/96; JR 9/6/96 (2/6/96);
CG 14/3/97 (3/3/97) * brackets are closest public holiday

Interesting that two are pretty much the week after public holidays. Perhaps he was out stalking the weekend before with no luck and backed up the weekend after as he couldn't help himself once he was in that mode. Could also be totally irrelevant.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Interesting that two are pretty much the week after public holidays. Perhaps he was out stalking the weekend before with no luck and backed up the weekend after as he couldn't help himself once he was in that mode. Could also be totally irrelevant.

Its a plausible theory....

 

[Sloofski]

Interesting that two are pretty much the week after public holidays. Perhaps he was out stalking the weekend before with no luck and backed up the weekend after as he couldn't help himself once he was in that mode. Could also be totally irrelevant.

could just be coincidence but in the week after long weekend couldve very much used big sunday sesh for stalking and finish off next week

 

[KG1]

Operation Lorimer was the hugely important investigation of the Silk / Miller double murder, of two Victorian policemen in 1998.
It has strong parallels to the CSK investigation, in terms of being a crime that shocked a State, a determination to be solved properly, (unlike the earlier Walsh Street fiasco, where revengeful police ****s summarily executed two crucial young potential witnesses destroying the case) and huge public interest .
When a re-examination of forensic testing on a shattered windscreen , led to Bandali Debs and Jason Roberts firming as suspects in July 1999 , Lorimer investigators placed state of the art transmitting and recording devices in both the suspects, and their associates, homes and cars.
An overt surveillance strategy was then put in place , aligned with critically timed media releases releasing snippets of information, predictions of an imminent arrest , and even a photo shopped likeness of Roberts lifted from his drivers licence.
This investigative tactic was designed ,and in fact led to Roberts and Debs making a number of self incriminating statements when discussing the murders in response to the "in your face" level of police "harassment " they encountered as they attempted to go about their daily routine. This overt surveillance was kept in place for almost one year to the day-culminating with the arrest of Debs in July 2000 and Roberts not long after.
IMO there are similarities to the CSK case, if it can be accepted that BRE came onto the radar unexpectedly in November 2015. Firming very quickly to the point whereby the surprise December 2015 media release detailing the type of car driven by the CSK was deemed fit for release as it was no further value kept secret.
A number of media releases confidently predicting the Claremont Killer would eventually be caught followed into 2016, and it is reported that BREs wife left him in March.
Facebook posts which could be construed as "taunting" watching investigators are recorded in June 2016 before BREs arrest in December 2016 - like the Lorimer investigation it appears BRE was allowed to "run free" for exactly a year as surveillance teams tried to provoke action and glean information from responses of the "Target".

I find it very difficult to see that police would let CSK 'run free' for over a year before arresting. Surely, it was imperative to remove him from society very quickly, once it was established that he was a very strong, maybe irrefutable, POI. It was published in MSM at the time of his arrest that he had only come onto the radar in more recent times. I believe that to be the case, as otherwise, it would have been a tremendous risk to let the POI free to roam and kill again. Unless he was under 24/7 full on surveillance, which would not be the case or possible. MOO

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

continuing on with the CSK knowing or not-knowing his victims pre-attacks......
Why then did the perpetrator keep silent during the KK abduction/rape????
Was it because the victim knew the perp?????
And maybe could have recognised his voice?

 

[WASleuth]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

The birnies murdered a girl that had come into his workplace to buy tyres. He told her he had cheaper ones at home and she followed him there.


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[Humanoid1987]

continuing on with the CSK knowing or not-knowing his victims pre-attacks......
Why then did the perpetrator keep silent during the KK abduction/rape????
Was it because the victim knew the perp?????
And maybe could have recognised his voice?

I feel the huntingdale attack was someone he new. Maybe she rejected him and that's what started the whole chain.

It seems strange that you would attempt an attack on someone in your suburb.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I feel the huntingdale attack was someone he new. Maybe she rejected him and that's what started the whole chain.

It seems strange that you would attempt an attack on someone in your suburb.

Maybe rookie mistake???
As a 20 yro.....