Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[Twist]

I know why the driver did not come forward. Because it did not happen like that. CG was not talking to anyone and no car stop

Hi Frankie, could you please say when you were last interviewed by Police for this case. Thanks

 

[mandy.maree]

You mean the police or the new papar said that. Yes my friend did say some brake lights came on as they were near CG and by the brake light he said the car was a white station wagon to the police

Well it was a CIA documentary about the Claremont killings with a police officer talking as the footage was played.
They did also imply heavily that the girls willingly got in the car at the time.
They may have changed their mind about this also by now.
I believe what you and your friends saw.
Just weird they would state otherwise as if it were fact.
May have been they just elaborated on that as they know more information themselves and wanted this white station wagon found.

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[MsAnais]

I suspect its a bit of a pseudo-science. The Yorkshire Ripper was interviewed 3 times and dismissed as he did not fit the 'profile' developed by the profiler

The Yorkshire Ripper was actually interviewed 9 times - and it was not that he was simply dismissed for not fitting a profile.....I'm reading an in-depth study of the case at the moment. (Great book btw - Wicked Beyond Belief by Michael Bilton)

He was overlooked as the information-gathering systems they had in place were not cohesive and linked up.

The only mention of any sort of profile happened when a red herring was thrown into the case by a hoax tape recording and letters claiming to be from the Ripper. Unfortunately, LE were too quick to believe that was the real killer and they then dismissed people not from that regional area (Sunderland). But that was only for a brief time.

The primary reason he was overlooked so many times was due to an overloaded bureaucracy and connections not being made between different pieces of recorded information. As well as LE not giving nearly enough credence to survivor's identikit pictures (which all looked like Peter Sutcliffe).

 

[mandy.maree]

Frankie, i have seen you post this a number of times. if the details given to the media by police over many, many years are not correct (in your eyes), have you spoken to the Police? If not, why not?

seems odd if one of your friends "made it up", he just so happened to pick the right type of car.

The person who reported the car was certain it was a Holden and not a Ford too iirc
Seems weird to notice that if they were just stopping for a sec but who knows



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[petedavo.au]

I suspect its a bit of a pseudo-science. The Yorkshire Ripper was interviewed 3 times and dismissed as he did not fit the 'profile' developed by the profiler

Citation.
Policing Critical Incidents: Leadership and Critical Incident Management

edited by Laurence Alison, Jonathan Crego 2012



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[Perthie]

Thanks Frankie, I had read enough to know you were one of the witnesses at the bus stop, but as a newcomer I haven't read that much yet. I'll try to do some catching up because looking back just now, there's a lot of info I haven't heard before. Do you still remember the face you dreamt? And does it match BE's? Just wondering if it was a memory... Sorry, this has probably been asked before...

Whoops ignore that question about does it match BREs face... been doing more reading & seems like you think he's innocent - I don't think that'd be the case if you were being haunted by his face. But I'd still like to know what the face looks like?

 

[mandy.maree]

While we are on the Holden station wagon sighting -isn't it weird the things people notice at these times? Things that usually would be fairly irrelevant and unnoticed most other days
Like when SS was waiting for her taxi and the people who drove past wanted to go back after seeing another car stop near her and not continue
Or MM being captured on cctv..
Or the people in the bus stop near CG who happened to notice what we now know to be the same car (type at least) that the CSK drove as forensic evidence has since proven from another victims body.
At least one of those people at bus stop claimed a girl was going to be taken that night .

Happened with Jill Meagher and many others too. People driving by who felt the urge to stop and offer a lift..but didnt want to come across as weird themselves, or figured they were over reacting.

If only people followed those instincts at the time.


Also if the car ,MM and other things had nothing to do with CSK and he blitzed them around the corner-he sure got lucky with all these things being distractions .
I personally think these things happened when they did and were noticed for a reason though


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[Sutton]

So one of the three told the police a lie about the car and it wasn't you Franki, how reliable were your mates the only other option is it was a police invention which may have stopped any other witnesses who did see CG but didn't see a car coming forward because they now didn't trust there memories.

I've seen similar comments posted many times, but there is still a lot of confusion.

Here is what Frankie's friend allegedly told police:

He saw the brake lights of a vehicle near Ciara. He may have identified the brake lights as belonging to a Holden.

This part is what Frankie is refuting:

Newspapers and the CIA episode say Ciara was talking to a person inside the vehicle.


My post is based on reading Frankie's past comments. His story has not changed, and he's told the same details, numerous times. I believe Frankie is being truthful. I have no idea if he's misremembering or his friend is lying or anything like that.

So how can we explain the discrepancy, including how police knew the correct vehicle type?

1. There was more than one source who saw CG. Maybe it's been reported as a composite account.

2. Maybe police asked if CG was talking to the driver and that planted the vision in the friend's head. We all know how many times this has happened with witnesses in other cases.

3. Maybe the friend just embellished the story on his own to be 'helpful'.

4. Maybe police told reporters an embellished version because they themselves were so convinced that the abductions were con jobs, not blitz attacks.

Really I have no idea. But it seems like there are some reasonable possibilities out there.

Frankie, please correct me if I've misunderstood.

 

[petedavo.au]

I recall getting dial up internet in my Perth share house in 96 and I paid for it monthly by personally going to the home of the isp owner who had a bank of modems supporting it in his living room. I recall it cost under $50pm.

IRC txt based chat was becoming popular over dial up internet and was an early form of internet dating tool. I know because I was doing it.

I wonder if any CSK victims were using IRC?

Windows 95 came standard with an MS IRC client. IRC and BBS had been around since 70's. Harvey Norman sold cheap PCs back then.
I was with q-net a dial up ISP based on The Broadway, Nedlands. That you could pay annually.
ICQ came out in November 1996.


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[b4u]

Windows 95 came standard with an MS IRC client. IRC and BBS had been around since 70's. Harvey Norman sold cheap PCs back then.
I was with q-net a dial up ISP based on The Broadway, Nedlands. That you could pay annually.
ICQ came out in November 1996.

Would you have been considered as one of the "elite" for having internet access at home back in 96?

 

[justified]

Whoops ignore that question about does it match BREs face... been doing more reading & seems like you think he's innocent - I don't think that'd be the case if you were being haunted by his face. But I'd still like to know what the face looks like?

I remember reading Frankie months before BRE was arrested, on another site. Frankie said the face he dreamed was Lance williams. LW definitely is not the CSK.

 

[justified]

Frankie, I went back to visit another site where you wrote (on 30th October 2015) that when the Police came to your house to speak with you & your friend about CG. You stated your friend told police the car stopped & talked to CG. You then went on to talk about Astral travelling six months later where you saw CG.

I believe the official version as given by your friend to the police.

 

[Perthie]

Windows 95 came standard with an MS IRC client. IRC and BBS had been around since 70's. Harvey Norman sold cheap PCs back then.
I was with q-net a dial up ISP based on The Broadway, Nedlands. That you could pay annually.
ICQ came out in November 1996.


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I knew someone in huntingdale who had internet around 1995 or 96. I remember being impressed at how fast pentium was.

 

[mandy.maree]

"As she passed the Taste of Thai Restaurant and Baptist Church, a male person who was sitting at the bus stop opposite called out to her that she was ‘crazy’ for hitch hiking. Ciara dismissed him with a wave/gesture. This male was with two other friends. A few minutes later Ciara is seen interacting with the occupant/s of a light coloured vehicle further along Stirling Highway, near Stirling Road.

Ciara is seen to lean over with her hands on her knees and it appears she speaks to the occupant/s.

A few minutes later, the male turns back and the vehicle and Ciara are no longer in view. There are other possible sightings of Ciara along Stirling highway and it cannot be confirmed if Ciara did or did not get into this vehicle.

The occupant/s of this light coloured vehicle has/have not been identified."

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/ciara-eilish-glennon/


Imo it may not have been the men in the bus stop who gave this information. There were a few others who sighted CG as she walked from the Continental and further on after the bus stop it seems

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[mandy.maree]

They just got into the wrong car?

PAUL FERGUSON: Got into the wrong car and it cost them their lives. The answer is out there. Someone who is listening has the answer.
(Former head of Macro)


This to me indicates they already had good reason to believe the girls got in their killers car willingly. This may not be the case at all. This was what the police seemed to think however. They may have had others who couldn't be 100% confirmed as seeing CG or JR who mentioned they saw CG talking to car occupant and just insinuated it was the people in bus stop who said it as they were confirmed as seeing CG

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[Spinnaker]

"As she passed the Taste of Thai Restaurant and Baptist Church, a male person who was sitting at the bus stop opposite called out to her that she was ‘crazy’ for hitch hiking. Ciara dismissed him with a wave/gesture. This male was with two other friends. A few minutes later Ciara is seen interacting with the occupant/s of a light coloured vehicle further along Stirling Highway, near Stirling Road.

Ciara is seen to lean over with her hands on her knees and it appears she speaks to the occupant/s.

A few minutes later, the male turns back and the vehicle and Ciara are no longer in view. There are other possible sightings of Ciara along Stirling highway and it cannot be confirmed if Ciara did or did not get into this vehicle.

The occupant/s of this light coloured vehicle has/have not been identified."

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/ciara-eilish-glennon/


Imo it may not have been the men in the bus stop who gave this information. There were a few others who sighted CG as she walked from the Continental and further on after the bus stop it seems

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I think you are right in that there are perhaps additional witness statements re the vehicle. One interesting point for me is that the person at the bus stop allegedly identified the brake lights as belonging to a Holden station wagon.

Therefore perhaps additional witnesses saw CG talking to the driver of the vehicle - these statements would then match up. Just theorising re potential additional witnesses - IMO.


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[petedavo.au]

Would you have been considered as one of the "elite" for having internet access at home back in 96?

Not really. There was a big 2ND hand computer market. You could get a reasonable refurbished ex govt PC for as little as $250 at computer reseller. I got a Compaq Pressario on sale at Harvey's for $900 with printer and scanner, in built modem. You could get free trial dial up for 30 days at a time with AOL, TPG etc, which I used before Q-Net which was $200 for six months or something. If you got a second line from Telstra, you only had to dial in once and save on phone bills by staying connected. It was better than the old dial up to university PDP11 in 1985 using the old commodore or apple 2e that some of my university colleagues had. They could dial up a BBS as far as internet was concerned. That was the geeky thing back then. I only had a typewriter and an old Holden HK to do my assignments and deliver them in 85

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[b4u]

This to me indicates they already had good reason to believe the girls got in their killers car willingly. This may not be the case at all. This was what the police seemed to think however. They may have had others who couldn't be 100% confirmed as seeing CG or JR who mentioned they saw CG talking to car occupant and just insinuated it was the people in bus stop who said it as they were confirmed as seeing CG

Agreed. Since Frankie he did not see CG get into any car, then it's possible that CG did get or was coerced into a car further along Stirling Highway, out of his range of view, or when he wasn't looking. It was dark, and Frankie by all accounts was alcohol affected.

 

[mandy.maree]

Agreed. Since Frankie he did not see CG get into any car, then it's possible that CG did get or was coerced into a car further along Stirling Highway, out of his range of view, or when he wasn't looking. It was dark, and Frankie by all accounts was alcohol affected.

Exactly
Imo it could be as simple as Frankie and his friends saw a car brake near CG. It was confirmed as CG as they recalled what she was wearing and interacted with her to some degree. Accurate description
Maybe further up the road someone saw her talking to a Holden Commodore but aren't sure what she was wearing or had inaccurate description of her so can't be confirmed sighting.
Something had to have linked the two though for police to have added in her talking to the occupant of a car.
My guess is the driver maybe slowed down to check her out at the point Frankie and friends saw her..then he stopped further up the road to talk to her or offer a lift.

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[b4u]

Windows 95 came standard with an MS IRC client.

The IRC (Internet Relay Client)
Efnet, Dalnet, and Undernet servers (had to refer to below link to get these names I had long forgotten),
each had hundreds of channels (chat rooms) you could enter using an anonymous nickname.

No doubt there were other servers and channels being used for some really unsavoury and criminal activity in Perth in the mid-late 90's., other than the savoury ones I used to frequent for socialising, and made a few friends through.

https://daniel.haxx.se/irchistory.html