Australia Australia - Corryn Rayney, 44, Como, WA, 7 August 2007

[Solaris]

I agree that the graphic of Corryn's grave was quite disturbing. The prosecutor asserts that she was buried in that manner to speed decomposition of the head and neck but I do not understand why this would be the case. I have tried to do some research on the relationship between depth of burial and decomposition but could not find anything to back up what is being asserted. I'm sure that during the trial it will all come out though.

One thing that I noticed was the way that her hands were folded across her chest. I would be interested to know what a criminal profiler would make of the killer's decision to do that rather than to just dump the body in and let the hands fall where they may. My thought is that someone who knows the deceased might take a little more care to place the hands versus someone who was unknown to the deceased.

 

[Solaris]

I think the killer intended to take the car back to Bentley and plant her boots To deflect away from where her body was buried. Suggestion of fowl play but no corpse. I think he was trying to commit the perfect crime and got caught out!! IMO

Definite possibility! If LR is the perp, it would have taken him a bit over an hour to walk from Bentley back to the home in Como.

I also think that Allison Baden Clay's phone was placed to deflect attention from the real location of the body.

 

[Solaris]

Whether or not he is found guilty, in my opinion LR killed his wife. I was willing to sit on the fence until he was charged with phone tapping in October 2007. For me, this piece of information told me a lot about his character and what he might be capable of.

Like others have already expressed, I too am disturbed by his smug appearance and his relationship with his daughters. On the first day of the trial, MSM showed footage of LR and his daughters walking to the court. They all appeared to be relaxed and smiling: very odd given the circumstances.

I know that the daughters were not directly exposed to the court proceedings, as they are witnesses, but they are very capable of accessing the internet. I really don't know how you would be able to keep absolute faith in the innocence of your father when confronted by even some of the information contained in the prosecutor's opening statement.

 

[EzyStreet]

It seems that the prosecution has a very strong case based on the first few days' proceedings. LR's actions and statements after the crime certainly seem to indicate a strong consciousness of guilt. I've been thinking about what the defense will focus on to convince the judge that there is reasonable doubt - lack of any murder weapon, lack of digging implement, the fact that it seems LR was not seen while allegedly burying her body or while walking home from her car to his house, etc. They will probably also claim that LR killing Corryn at the family home would be very risky for an allegedly premeditated murder - the sleeping daughter could've woken up and heard the crime being committed, or either daughter could've woken up and heard or seen him leaving and or returning home in the early hours of the morning. Of course the defense doesn't have to come up with an alternative explanation as to who may have committed the crime, they just have to cast enough doubt on the evidence to create a reasonable doubt, which, it would appear, is all they can do as all the evidence seems to point in one direction. It will be especially interesting to see how they handle the forensic evidence. I'm planning to attend a few days of the trial next week when the prosecution begins calling witnesses.

One thing I'm not quite understanding, (and I may be missing something obvious) is LR's alleged deception regarding the alarm system. The prosecution said that LR would've activated (and deactivated upon return) the alarm when he left the house to allegedly bury his wife's body, but wouldn't the alarm need to stay deactivated due to his daughters being at home? And if the alarm system was one that had separate controls for both storeys or something, why would LR bother to activate the alarm when leaving the house to dispose of the body? Surely his home getting broken into would've been the last thing on his mind in that situation, and secondly, it would prove very incriminating if it could be proved that the alarm system was activated and deactivated around the time of the alleged disposal of the body. I just don't get why he would do that, although he must've, because why else would he (allegedly) lie to police about the alarm system not working? Perhaps someone can explain what I'm missing in regard to this.

 

[Gemini Girl]

I think that the welfare of the daughters may have been a significant factor in securing him bail. It was 3.5 years after Corryn's murder that LR was charged and during all of that time he was their primary caregiver. It would have had a major impact on them to have him incarcerated while he was awaiting trial.

Hi Solaris and welcome

I get what you are saying here, but like the Baden-Clay girls in Brisbane, the Rayney girls appear to have have aunts and uncles on both sides of the family, not sure about grandparents.

If LR had been the only possibility for their care it would make more sense to me. Admittedly I do not know the circumstances of the aunts and uncles and or possible grandparents.

Also, GBC in Brisbane was viewed as a flight risk, a major reson for not being granted bail.

LR I would have thought, was just as much a flight risk, in fact I seem to recall in Kimster's post with the link re the bail hearing (previous page) that a specific amount was detailed as being forfeit if he did not turn up for the trial. Which suggests to me there was some recognition that LR was a flight risk, especially with dual citizenship??

Just interesting, the diffierent outcomes in what appear, on the surface at least, to be similar circumstances surrounding the alleged perpetrators.

:waitasec:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

I agree that the graphic of Corryn's grave was quite disturbing. The prosecutor asserts that she was buried in that manner to speed decomposition of the head and neck but I do not understand why this would be the case. I have tried to do some research on the relationship between depth of burial and decomposition but could not find anything to back up what is being asserted. I'm sure that during the trial it will all come out though.

One thing that I noticed was the way that her hands were folded across her chest. I would be interested to know what a criminal profiler would make of the killer's decision to do that rather than to just dump the body in and let the hands fall where they may. My thought is that someone who knows the deceased might take a little more care to place the hands versus someone who was unknown to the deceased.

I too was struck by the seemingly personal note of the hands folded across her chest. Almost seems to me to possibly have quasi religious significance. Not sure why I say that, just a gut feeling.

May just have been because of space issues I guess.



:twocents:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

It seems that the prosecution has a very strong case based on the first few days' proceedings. LR's actions and statements after the crime certainly seem to indicate a strong consciousness of guilt. I've been thinking about what the defense will focus on to convince the judge that there is reasonable doubt - lack of any murder weapon, lack of digging implement, the fact that it seems LR was not seen while allegedly burying her body or while walking home from her car to his house, etc. They will probably also claim that LR killing Corryn at the family home would be very risky for an allegedly premeditated murder - the sleeping daughter could've woken up and heard the crime being committed, or either daughter could've woken up and heard or seen him leaving and or returning home in the early hours of the morning. Of course the defense doesn't have to come up with an alternative explanation as to who may have committed the crime, they just have to cast enough doubt on the evidence to create a reasonable doubt, which, it would appear, is all they can do as all the evidence seems to point in one direction. It will be especially interesting to see how they handle the forensic evidence. I'm planning to attend a few days of the trial next week when the prosecution begins calling witnesses.

One thing I'm not quite understanding, (and I may be missing something obvious) is LR's alleged deception regarding the alarm system. The prosecution said that LR would've activated (and deactivated upon return) the alarm when he left the house to allegedly bury his wife's body, but wouldn't the alarm need to stay deactivated due to his daughters being at home? And if the alarm system was one that had separate controls for both storeys or something, why would LR bother to activate the alarm when leaving the house to dispose of the body? Surely his home getting broken into would've been the last thing on his mind in that situation, and secondly, it would prove very incriminating if it could be proved that the alarm system was activated and deactivated around the time of the alleged disposal of the body. I just don't get why he would do that, although he must've, because why else would he (allegedly) lie to police about the alarm system not working? Perhaps someone can explain what I'm missing in regard to this.

Hi Ezy Street and welcome

To paraphrase a famous movie line, I'm missing what you're missing!!

:rocker:

Any body else got ideas on this one?

JMO MOO

 

[mouse detective]

One thing I'm not quite understanding, (and I may be missing something obvious) is LR's alleged deception regarding the alarm system. The prosecution said that LR would've activated (and deactivated upon return) the alarm when he left the house to allegedly bury his wife's body, but wouldn't the alarm need to stay deactivated due to his daughters being at home? And if the alarm system was one that had separate controls for both storeys or something, why would LR bother to activate the alarm when leaving the house to dispose of the body? Surely his home getting broken into would've been the last thing on his mind in that situation, and secondly, it would prove very incriminating if it could be proved that the alarm system was activated and deactivated around the time of the alleged disposal of the body. I just don't get why he would do that, although he must've, because why else would he (allegedly) lie to police about the alarm system not working? Perhaps someone can explain what I'm missing in regard to this.

Hi Ezy Street - yes I am with you in terms of how the alarm system claims were put to the court. I think what the prosecutor was trying to say was that there may have been activity with the alarm that night or during that week even that may have helped confirm Mr Rayneys story or vice versa had he been truthful about the time about the alarm system.

It's possible that their alarm system may have had a perimeter alarm when all the family are inside, a downstairs alarm when everyone in their bedrooms and a whole of house alarm when they are out.

The Police may have since monitored the way Lloyd Rayney sets his alarm when he is at home and when the kids are home and he goes out and therefore likely to use this as part of their submission to the court.

 

[mouse detective]

I too was struck by the seemingly personal note of the hands folded across her chest. Almost seems to me to possibly have quasi religious significance. Not sure why I say that, just a gut feeling.

May just have been because of space issues I guess.

JMO MOO

Did anyone notice that there appeared to be a red blanket/towel wrapped around Corryn's body in the grave?

I wonder if the perpetrator covered her head with a blanket before hitting her which would minimise blood splattering. I shuddered when I realised that blanket may only have been red because it was soaked with her blood.

:notgood::notgood::notgood:

 

[mouse detective]

New News Report from last night summarising the opening address from the prosecution.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/the-rayneys--a-life-laid-bare-20120719-22coa.html

 

[YoureNicked]

I read that someone from the prosecution or police dug a similar sized hole nearby in just twenty minutes.

You're right Nads - here's the reference to that:- This is a really good article as it contains lots of detail and photos of the bollard that was reversed over and the place card that was found at the scene.

http://www.news.com.au/was-trial-of-the-century/story-e6frg12l-1226427536395

"The court was also told police trying to replicate Mrs Rayney's Kings Park grave took 20 minutes to dig it."

 

[YoureNicked]

Hi GG.

I agree Kings Park is a busy place. I have visited the place where Corryns body was found during the day but that was in springtime. That stretch of road is probably the quietest of all the main routes and those bush trails can feel a little eerie. Since this happened late at night and in the middle of winter, I can see how someone could be there for some time without being noticed.

I think the place card is most likely to have fallen out of his jacket pocket when he pulled something out, maybe a pair of gloves or a hanky. If it fell out of her car then the prosecutions case would be compromised. I wonder if he went to the area a day or so before to assess the area.

The fact that the digging implement has never been found is a big piece of the puzzle that is missing. Of course it's possible that he ditched it somewhere and went to retrieve before going to work the next morning.

JMO

Good thinking, mouse detective.

I think you could be right, regarding the place card having fallen out of his jacket pocket.

Since he didn't drive to the dinner in Corryn's car (as witnesses will testify) then it's not likely the card would have been in her car.

I wonder if he threw the digging implement into the Swan River as he made his way back over the Narrows Bridge back to his house at Como? I wonder if the police ever dredged or sent divers into the river? (They could have cleaned it up while they were at it lol...there is that much junk in there).

As for Corryn's boots...yes a big mistake to leave them in the car. Why didn't he dispose of them also? Why didn't he bury them with the body?

Good question, mouse detective regarding whether the alleged murderer scouted the burial site beforehand. I wouldn't be surprised if he had.

He knew the pressure was being applied to him by his wife (he set up recording devices to listen to her phone conversations and even recorded face to face conversations with her, so it was clear he felt threatened.) All his hopes and dreams of securing the Queen's Counsel position would go up in smoke if his reputation as a serial womaniser and chronic gambler were exposed.

I wouldn't be surprised if his thoughts had turned to planning murder, long before the actual crime took place.

If only Corryn had left him and found a safe place from which to expose the one she described as 'a snake and wicked man'.

http://www.news.com.au/was-trial-of-the-century/story-e6frg12l-1226427536395
(Best article, in my opinion, of the trial revelations to date. Contains many details, photos and an aerial view of burial site).

In My Opinion Only

 

[Gemini Girl]

Good thinking, mouse detective.

I think you could be right, regarding the place card having fallen out of his jacket pocket.

Since he didn't drive to the dinner in Corryn's car (as witnesses will testify) then it's not likely the card would have been in her car.

I wonder if he threw the digging implement into the Swan River as he made his way back over the Narrows Bridge back to his house at Como? I wonder if the police ever dredged or sent divers into the river? (They could have cleaned it up while they were at it lol...there is that much junk in there).

As for Corryn's boots...yes a big mistake to leave them in the car. Why didn't he dispose of them also? Why didn't he bury them with the body?

Good question, mouse detective regarding whether the alleged murderer scouted the burial site beforehand. I wouldn't be surprised if he had.

He knew the pressure was being applied to him by his wife (he set up recording devices to listen to her phone conversations and even recorded face to face conversations with her, so it was clear he felt threatened.) All his hopes and dreams of securing the Queen's Counsel position would go up in smoke if his reputation as a serial womaniser and chronic gambler were exposed.

I wouldn't be surprised if his thoughts had turned to planning murder, long before the actual crime took place.

If only Corryn had left him and found a safe place from which to expose the one she described as 'a snake and wicked man'.

http://www.news.com.au/was-trial-of-the-century/story-e6frg12l-1226427536395
(Best article, in my opinion, of the trial revelations to date. Contains many details, photos and an aerial view of burial site).

In My Opinion Only

Even if LR is acquitted of this murder due to legal fancy footwork (which heaven forbid), I am hopeful we can assume he will at least never make it to QC in any case.

:banghead:

JMO MOO

 

[YoureNicked]

Even if LR is acquitted of this murder due to legal fancy footwork (which heaven forbid), I am hopeful we can assume he will at least never make it to QC in any case.

:banghead:

JMO MOO

Oh yes, I agree!

If all that Corryn wrote about him is true, then he is a complete slimeball!

I know that I certainly felt 'a bad vibe' when I met him once in a store I was working in, a few months after Corryn's murder. He has cold, expressionless eyes...like a shark's.

uke:

IMO.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/was-trial-of-the-century/story-fndo2j1f-1226427536395

"In one email to her own lawyer four days before her death, Mrs Rayney said Mr Rayney needed to "feel the heat", Mr Agius said.
She wrote of how he was openly having an affair with a young lawyer at the DPP, was not welcome back in Bermuda where he had spent 18 months as a prosecutor because of his womanising and how she feared he was hiding assets."

 

[YoureNicked]

It seems that the prosecution has a very strong case based on the first few days' proceedings. LR's actions and statements after the crime certainly seem to indicate a strong consciousness of guilt. I've been thinking about what the defense will focus on to convince the judge that there is reasonable doubt - lack of any murder weapon, lack of digging implement, the fact that it seems LR was not seen while allegedly burying her body or while walking home from her car to his house, etc. They will probably also claim that LR killing Corryn at the family home would be very risky for an allegedly premeditated murder - the sleeping daughter could've woken up and heard the crime being committed, or either daughter could've woken up and heard or seen him leaving and or returning home in the early hours of the morning. Of course the defense doesn't have to come up with an alternative explanation as to who may have committed the crime, they just have to cast enough doubt on the evidence to create a reasonable doubt, which, it would appear, is all they can do as all the evidence seems to point in one direction. It will be especially interesting to see how they handle the forensic evidence. I'm planning to attend a few days of the trial next week when the prosecution begins calling witnesses.

One thing I'm not quite understanding, (and I may be missing something obvious) is LR's alleged deception regarding the alarm system. The prosecution said that LR would've activated (and deactivated upon return) the alarm when he left the house to allegedly bury his wife's body, but wouldn't the alarm need to stay deactivated due to his daughters being at home? And if the alarm system was one that had separate controls for both storeys or something, why would LR bother to activate the alarm when leaving the house to dispose of the body? Surely his home getting broken into would've been the last thing on his mind in that situation, and secondly, it would prove very incriminating if it could be proved that the alarm system was activated and deactivated around the time of the alleged disposal of the body. I just don't get why he would do that, although he must've, because why else would he (allegedly) lie to police about the alarm system not working? Perhaps someone can explain what I'm missing in regard to this.

Bolded By Me

Hi EzyStreet - I don't really understand the allegations regarding the house alarm system either.

I do know that, with modern house alarm systems, you can set the alarm so that you can still be inside the house, moving around, but the perimeters of the house (windows and doors) would still be alarmed. If someone penetrates the house while you are inside, then the alarm will sound, unless you deactivate it within a few seconds. I had one of these systems in a house I lived in.

With regard to the Rayney case - the only thing I can suggest is that perhaps it was common practise for the Rayney family to set their alarm system to this 'perimeter monitoring' setting every night when they went to bed?

If someone was leaving the house or entering it, especially when the daughters where home on their own, then perhaps the parents may have been in the habit of deactivating it when they left and then reactivating it when they returned home?

But you are right, I think - a person leaving the home to bury someone they'd killed would hardly deactivate the alarm system and then reactivate it again - effectively alerting the investigating police officers to his movements.

Instead of saying the alarm system wasn't working, perhaps LR should have just said he didn't set it for perimeter monitoring?

In My Opinion it might just have been the lie he told about the system not working that was the real issue -- and not really the matter of whether he set the alarm or not.Hopefully, we will understand more about this in the coming days, as witnesses are heard.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/fu...57940/accuseds-many-lies-to-cover-his-tracks/

"Police investigating the disappearance of Corryn Rayney in 2007 believed lies told by her husband led to potentially incriminating evidence being lost, the Supreme Court was told yesterday.

Prosecutor John Agius said that the day after Corryn Rayney went missing on August 7, 2007, Lloyd Rayney misled police about whether their home security alarm had recorded being switched on and off.

Mr Agius said detectives did not test Mr Rayney's honesty because of who he was.

"He said he was currently having some problems with the alarm system and it wasn't working," he said.

"The police accepted the explanation as well they might have at the time, the accused being a barrister and former prosecutor.

"In fact, the security alarm was working."

Mr Agius said the prosecution believed Mr Rayney would have activated and deactivated his alarm system when he left his sleeping daughters the previous night to bury his wife's body in King's Park.

"There is no other reason he would have lied (other than) he did not want police to be probing his computer," he said.

Mr Agius said that by the time the police checked the alarm system, after Mrs Rayney's body was discovered a week later, any record from the night she disappeared had been erased."

 

[YoureNicked]

Hi Solaris and welcome

I get what you are saying here, but like the Baden-Clay girls in Brisbane, the Rayney girls appear to have have aunts and uncles on both sides of the family, not sure about grandparents.

If LR had been the only possibility for their care it would make more sense to me. Admittedly I do not know the circumstances of the aunts and uncles and or possible grandparents.

Also, GBC in Brisbane was viewed as a flight risk, a major reson for not being granted bail.

LR I would have thought, was just as much a flight risk, in fact I seem to recall in Kimster's post with the link re the bail hearing (previous page) that a specific amount was detailed as being forfeit if he did not turn up for the trial. Which suggests to me there was some recognition that LR was a flight risk, especially with dual citizenship??

Just interesting, the diffierent outcomes in what appear, on the surface at least, to be similar circumstances surrounding the alleged perpetrators.

:waitasec:

JMO MOO

I agree, GeminiGirl - the Baden-Clay case and this one just seem so similar in their circumstances...and yet the alleged killers have been treated so differently.

LR gets bail and custody of his children whilst GBC is in custody awaiting trial and his children are put in the care of Allison's parents.

The only reason I can see for this difference in treatment between the two alleged murderers is that one is a member of the legal fraternity.

It stinks, in my opinion!

But at least, since LR's trial is not in front of a jury, we can pretty much say what we want in these forums!

For example - LR makes me want to barf!

:jail:

 

[CanManEh]

I cant believe after all these years austraila has never done a good in depth documentry on Derek Percy//

 

[YoureNicked]

I think the killer intended to take the car back to Bentley and plant her boots To deflect away from where her body was buried. Suggestion of fowl play but no corpse. I think he was trying to commit the perfect crime and got caught out!! IMO

I think you're right, mouse (this forum incorrectly attributes the quote to Perthgirl - but I followed it back through the posts to mouse detective ) when you think that the alleged killer may have planned to take Corryn's line-dancing boots and car back to Bentley and leave them there to make it look like Corryn had been killed there after the line-dancing class.

But the killer reversed over the bollard and couldn't make it back to Bentley, throwing this plan into disarray.

I still don't know why he didn't take the boots out of the broken down car and dump them later...unless he had no large bag with him and could only carry the shovel he used to bury her with.

Maybe he decided it was best to dispose of the shovel...the actual tool used to bury the body...(perhaps it was a compact folding shovel which he could easily conceal beneath a jacket or jumper as he walked home)...rather than try to hide a pair of bulky and difficult-to-handle cowboy boots?

IMO

 

[Solaris]

Hi Solaris and welcome

...I get what you are saying here, but like the Baden-Clay girls in Brisbane, the Rayney girls appear to have have aunts and uncles on both sides of the family, not sure about grandparents.

If LR had been the only possibility for their care it would make more sense to me. Admittedly I do not know the circumstances of the aunts and uncles and or possible grandparents.

...

Just interesting, the diffierent outcomes in what appear, on the surface at least, to be similar circumstances surrounding the alleged perpetrators.

:waitasec:

JMO MOO

The psychological impact on placing the Rayney children elsewhere would have been greater given that they had lost one parent and depended on the other parent for the next 3.5 years. The Baden Clay children were only with their father for a short time before his arrest and so placing them elsewhere (though difficult) would not have been as traumatic as if they had lived with and depended on their father alone for 3.5 years before being shipped off to another relative.

Not sure what the possibilities were on the Rayney side, but I read in the article below that Corryn's family had not spoken to LR or had contact with the girls since her death.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/truth-of-rayney-murder-mystery-to-come-to-light-20120715-223ti.html

 

[YoureNicked]

I cant believe after all these years austraila has never done a good in depth documentry on Derek Percy//

Off topic:

Yes, there seems to have been much written about the predator but only a few short pieces on tv current affairs type shows.

Maybe nobody wants to be seen to be giving this monster air-time/publicity?