Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Humdinger]

Actually, whilst I'm sharing TMI stories...

Many years ago when I was young and far too silly... A Friend and I set out to go camping, I'd been out all night Friday and only made it home in time to shower and head to work, so I'd not been to sleep. That arvo we said hey, we know some people out camping this weekend, let's go find them! We headed out of Melbourne and into the countryside, we had a vague idea of where they were, but there was no phone service, so we just drove to campsites and looked around. Couldn't find them, so we found a pub and had a few drinks and dinner and set out again looking for them (with booze on board of course).
Eventually we found them, but it was dark, we sat around their campfire and had a few more drinks. Just before we all went to sleep I decided to go to have a pee. As we got here after dark I was completely unfamiliar of our surroundings, but I saw a tree line and figured it would be a safe and hidden spot for me. Unfortunately for me, it wasn't... I remember walking and then tumbling and then being in freezing cold water and freaking out trying to swim to the surface. It all happened in a split second.
Fortunately the others heard the splash and came running, I was too cold and in shock to scream, I clung to the bank struggling to catch my breath, it was so deep and such a big drop off I'd never have been able to pull myself out. One of the guys climbed down and pulled me out and helped me back up the steep cliff like bank.

I was more tired than drunk, no one would have looked at me and thought I was in any way wasted, but none the less I was impaired by the lack of sleep and alcohol. If that spot where I fell was not on the bend of the river, I'd likely have been swept away in the fast current and drowned as I can't swim. Had I hit my head as I was tumbling or on entering the water, I may have drowned. Had the others not heard the splash, I would have just vanished...

It's so long ago now that I don't often think of it,I guess I'm not a big risk taker these days, but back then I thought I was bullet proof, mid 20's, management level job, worked hard and played hard.

After my walk on the dark last night I've been thinking of Gary non stop and the events of that fateful night.

I believe that it was most likely death by misadventure, just like mine would have been had I not been so lucky. I think it was poor judgement which proved fatal

 

[Flinders]

Thing is in the Australian bush, you cannot get land marks from where you stand. Similar trees are native to that area and all look alike. In bush survival I thought that they teach to NOT MOVE as you get disoriented and run in circles.

Bear Gryllis is now launching a new book. He doesn't stand still for a moment.

 

[Estelle]

Unlike many of you who feel it was a misadventure and can emphasise with that through your own previous experiences because of fatigue, drugs and/or drunkenness, I am of the opinion that Gary was robbed, assaulted, murdered and thrown over that cliff either on that day or later thinking his body would never be found.

As to the perpetrator, I have no idea. Perhaps the autopsy and DNA will reveal all at the inquest.

It is just my gut feeling so it is my opinion only so I am now wondering how many of you predict this too.

 

[SouthAussie]

Unlike many of you who feel it was a misadventure and can emphasise with that through your own previous experiences because of fatigue, drugs and/or drunkenness, I am of the opinion that Gary was robbed, assaulted, murdered and thrown over that cliff either on that day or later thinking his body would never be found.

As to the perpetrator, I have no idea. Perhaps the autopsy and DNA will reveal all at the inquest.

It is just my gut feeling so it is my opinion only so I am now wondering how many of you predict this too.

I really struggle with how Gary fell from a cliff - and only part way down - in such a hard to reach area and almost 2km from the Fairmont and where he was last seen on Watkins Road. I could more easily believe it if it was near the lookout, or right by the Fairmont - say off that layby/turn around along their driveway. But it takes some real effort to get to where he went over.

The only innocent reason I could imagine him being in that location is if he was 'hiding' while suffering a drug psychosis. (But that seems like a really easy answer to grab at, and surely there were better places to hide.) Especially as no-one else seemed aware he was suffering the psychosis, or did anything about it. For goodness sakes, his colleagues were on the phone with him for 17 minutes. Surely if they knew he was going off the rails they would have alerted authorities right away .. got him some help before he hurt himself.

Other than that, I'm with you ... foul play ... due to someone wanting his drugs, or his money, or over a girl, or because he had helped police with their inquiries regarding Pambos ... something like that.

 

[Estelle]

I really struggle with how Gary fell from a cliff - and only part way down - in such a hard to reach area and almost 2km from the Fairmont and where he was last seen on Watkins Road. I could more easily believe it if it was near the lookout, or right by the Fairmont - say off that layby/turn around along their driveway. But it takes some real effort to get to where he went over.

The only innocent reason I could imagine him being in that location is if he was 'hiding' while suffering a drug psychosis. (But that seems like a really easy answer to grab at, and surely there were better places to hide.) Especially as no-one else seemed aware he was suffering the psychosis, or did anything about it. For goodness sakes, his colleagues were on the phone with him for 17 minutes. Surely if they knew he was going off the rails they would have alerted authorities right away .. got him some help before he hurt himself.

Other than that, I'm with you ... foul play ... due to someone wanting his drugs, or his money, or over a girl, or because he had helped police with their inquiries regarding Pambos ... something like that.

BBM I cannot understand nor accept that his colleagues seemed to have ignored Gary's pleas for help as he said he was lost. I would have asked the Fairmont straight away for a vehicle at least to go out to find him and to bring him back home.

 

[mumkinton]

Unlike many of you who feel it was a misadventure and can emphasise with that through your own previous experiences because of fatigue, drugs and/or drunkenness, I am of the opinion that Gary was robbed, assaulted, murdered and thrown over that cliff either on that day or later thinking his body would never be found.

As to the perpetrator, I have no idea. Perhaps the autopsy and DNA will reveal all at the inquest.

It is just my gut feeling so it is my opinion only so I am now wondering how many of you predict this too.

Yes I have an open mind to this theory. My reason for this is the location of Gary's body. I just wonder that if he had fallen from the top down to that ledge would he have survived that fall? The location as far as I can see is difficult to get to, if he was running up the hill behind the last house on sublime point road and slipped there he would have had to have gone through a lot of vegetation and trees to get to the ledge he fell off. MOO of course

 

[mumkinton]

I really struggle with how Gary fell from a cliff - and only part way down - in such a hard to reach area and almost 2km from the Fairmont and where he was last seen on Watkins Road. I could more easily believe it if it was near the lookout, or right by the Fairmont - say off that layby/turn around along their driveway. But it takes some real effort to get to where he went over.

The only innocent reason I could imagine him being in that location is if he was 'hiding' while suffering a drug psychosis. (But that seems like a really easy answer to grab at, and surely there were better places to hide.) Especially as no-one else seemed aware he was suffering the psychosis, or did anything about it. For goodness sakes, his colleagues were on the phone with him for 17 minutes. Surely if they knew he was going off the rails they would have alerted authorities right away .. got him some help before he hurt himself.
Other than that, I'm with you ... foul play ... due to someone wanting his drugs, or his money, or over a girl, or because he had helped police with their inquiries regarding Pambos ... something like that.

I too struggle with the location SouthAussie. It makes no sense to me. It seems to have got to where he did would have taken some determination. I have been researching the climbers pages about sweet dreams walls and they do mention that there are loose rocks at the top especially on the Whymper route, which is just about where Gary must have come down, this is just left of the usual route up Sweet Dreams Wall. It is not easy to get to as the recovery team stated. The climbers site the crag, mention that there is a yobbo element in the sublime point car park after midnight doing drivebys. Could Gary have encountered some undesirables perhaps? MOO of course

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes I have an open mind to this theory. My reason for this is the location of Gary's body. I just wonder that if he had fallen from the top down to that ledge would he have survived that fall? The location as far as I can see is difficult to get to, if he was running up the hill behind the last house on sublime point road and slipped there he would have had to have gone through a lot of vegetation and trees to get to the ledge he fell off. MOO of course

And there is always that question .. what was he doing running through the thick scrub and bush late on a cold night in his shirtsleeves anyway? Plenty of roads to run on - making it a much quicker run, if he was running from something.

And if he was running from something, why wouldn't he run towards help .. a house (plenty of them), the Fairmont, the highway .. why away from it?

Even if he was running from a car ... go to a house, bang and bang on the door, yell, make some noise. Someone would have poked their nose out to see what was going on, maybe let him in, maybe called the police.

 

[Estelle]

And there is always that question .. what was he doing running through the thick scrub and bush late on a cold night in his shirtsleeves anyway? Plenty of roads to run on - making it a much quicker run, if he was running from something.

And if he was running from something, why wouldn't he run towards help .. a house (plenty of them), the Fairmont, the highway .. why away from it?

Even if he was running from a car ... go to a house, bang and bang on the door, yell, make some noise. Someone would have poked their nose out to see what was going on, maybe let him in, maybe called the police.

Nothing makes sense to me except foul play.

Motive?

Gary had money to pay for the cocaine whatever that amount was and if he had drugs on him, another reason.

No matter how wasted Gary was that night, IMO he would not have got to that cliff alone even if he had wanted to commit suicide.

 

[SouthAussie]

And how would he even have known how to get to that cliff? Plenty of other more accessible cliffs .... and not so well-concealed. The fact that the cliff is well-concealed (from the top) sends up a red flag for me.

 

[mumkinton]

And there is always that question .. what was he doing running through the thick scrub and bush late on a cold night in his shirtsleeves anyway? Plenty of roads to run on - making it a much quicker run, if he was running from something.

And if he was running from something, why wouldn't he run towards help .. a house (plenty of them), the Fairmont, the highway .. why away from it?

Even if he was running from a car ... go to a house, bang and bang on the door, yell, make some noise. Someone would have poked their nose out to see what was going on, maybe let him in, maybe called the police.

Indeed SouthAussie :banghead: what if he rushed out of Fairmont expecting to meet CP on Watkins Road but missed him. CP drove on down Sublime Point Road and parked up somewhere. Gary called colleagues for directions to where CP was and the 17 min call could have been them trying to direct him. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Nothing makes sense to me except foul play.

Motive?

Gary had money to pay for the cocaine whatever that amount was and if he had drugs on him, another reason.

No matter how wasted Gary was that night, IMO he would not have got to that cliff alone even if he had wanted to commit suicide.

I have posted this several times, and repeat: The possibility of foul play should be examined vigorously. He didn't get over that cliff on his own. This is my opinion only.

 

[TK8895]

Indeed SouthAussie :banghead: what if he rushed out of Fairmont expecting to meet CP on Watkins Road but missed him. CP drove on down Sublime Point Road and parked up somewhere. Gary called colleagues for directions to where CP was and the 17 min call could have been them trying to direct him. MOO

That doesn't make sense. If he can call his workmates, he could use the GPS on his iPhone or call CP directly.

 

[marlywings]

And there is always that question .. what was he doing running through the thick scrub and bush late on a cold night in his shirtsleeves anyway? Plenty of roads to run on - making it a much quicker run, if he was running from something.

And if he was running from something, why wouldn't he run towards help .. a house (plenty of them), the Fairmont, the highway .. why away from it?

Even if he was running from a car ... go to a house, bang and bang on the door, yell, make some noise. Someone would have poked their nose out to see what was going on, maybe let him in, maybe called the police.

If he had drugs on him I'm not sure I could see him asking for help from nearby residents. Young, extreme high achiever with a multi-national company....fear of damaging his reputation if caught may have prevented him from seeking "outside" help.

If he was as "wasted" as we've been led to believe, thinking rationally or logically would have most likely been right out of the equation.

 

[mumkinton]

That doesn't make sense. If he can call his workmates, he could use the GPS on his iPhone or call CP directly.

Fair comment, but I cannot see my IPhone maps when I have not got my glasses on.

 

[FigTree]

BBM I cannot understand nor accept that his colleagues seemed to have ignored Gary's pleas for help as he said he was lost. I would have asked the Fairmont straight away for a vehicle at least to go out to find him and to bring him back home.

I think they might have been too intoxicated to drive anywhere, and agree that the issue of drugs basically silenced the lot of them.

I do think Foul Play.
And I want to know if Gary's injuries and landing position are consistent with a fall, a push, or a throw.
And why they didn't see him for so long when Sublime Point and the surrounding area where vigorously searched from the beginning.
Was Gary covered over somehow and the debris moved with the following high winds - or was he placed there later.
I keep thinking about the amount of choppers that were flying over that area during the search - and after the search had finished there was massive track maintenance in the area with choppers flying in supplies.
They were also doing fire clearings...
The area was open to abseils after the search finished.
People were still conducting their own private searches in the area ...
The track was being used.

JMHO

 

[marlywings]

Slightly off topic...for anyone interested.

A news conference with police in the case of a missing young girl in US. The offficer discusses how they manage the searches for missing people. He talks about computer generated maps & shows a grid map of where the search has taken place. I believe police in Oz work to similar type manuals/maps.

At around the 2min mark.

http://www.wmur.com/news/nh-news/Su...dez/-/9857858/22419822/-/5tv6lsz/-/index.html

 

[Gagita]

Hey guys, had a new friend email me a photo of a climb she did at Sweet Dreams and the location to me, looks eerily like where or similar to where GT was discovered...

 

[rosesfromangels]

I believe this was simply a drug deal that went bad. The dealer drove a long way, and perhaps GT didn't have all the money he was supposed to. Maybe GT was tasked with selling to all his chums at the conference and didn't come back with enough money after his sales. Maybe he spent the money in town. Maybe that cost him his life....
The name "sweet dreams" doesn't seem coincidental to me.

 

[Estelle]

That doesn't make sense. If he can call his workmates, he could use the GPS on his iPhone or call CP directly.

Maybe GT was with CP when he made that 17 min call and CP was asking for more money.