Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Humdinger]

I could be wrong, but IIRC that was on her FB page and I think it was the day they were going to recover the body that they believed was GT.

So to explain better, she was aware it was most likely his body and hence it was time for hide and seek to be over, he was coming home that day.

 

[hwneyz]

I could be wrong, but IIRC that was on her FB page and I think it was the day they were going to recover the body that they believed was GT.

Humdinger, no your right......I saw it on her FB page too. Weirded me out that it was 7 weeks later to the exact day he went missing, that he was recovered.

 

[SouthAussie]

"On Tuesday morning Ms Haigh posted: ‘‘Your time of hide and seek needs to end now though please. Time to come home where you belong. I love you.’’

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1751465/body-discovery-crushes-girlfriend/


I think you are right Humdinger, it was that day according to this article.


However, having said that, so many things slot into place when considering that Gary may have suffered drug-induced psychosis. His mum and Anika hanging onto hope that he may still be out there somewhere, the odd behaviours, his dad being peeved and 'never going back there', as if they knew he may have a problem sometimes when taking certain types of drugs (legal and illegal). The family never using that word 'accident'. The urgency of that huge search .. if they could only find him soon enough, he could be okay .. and still his mum and Anika did not give up hope.

When Derryn Hunch said that psychosis can and does creep up on a person, often when they are 'coming down', it finally started making a little sense to me.

Still - need to wait and see what the November inquest brings.

 

[fruity]

"On Tuesday morning Ms Haigh posted: ‘‘Your time of hide and seek needs to end now though please. Time to come home where you belong. I love you.’’

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1751465/body-discovery-crushes-girlfriend/


I think you are right Humdinger, it was that day according to this article.


However, having said that, so many things slot into place when considering that Gary may have suffered drug-induced psychosis. His mum and Anika hanging onto hope that he may still be out there somewhere, the odd behaviours, his dad being peeved and 'never going back there', as if they knew he may have a problem sometimes when taking certain types of drugs (legal and illegal). The family never using that word 'accident'. The urgency of that huge search .. if they could only find him soon enough, he could be okay .. and still his mum and Anika did not give up hope.

When Derryn Hunch said that psychosis can and does creep up on a person, often when they are 'coming down', it finally started making a little sense to me.

Still - need to wait and see what the November inquest brings.

Also Gary's Dad's comments about unconditional love. It does seem to add up.

 

[indigo7]

"On Tuesday morning Ms Haigh posted: ‘‘Your time of hide and seek needs to end now though please. Time to come home where you belong. I love you.’’

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1751465/body-discovery-crushes-girlfriend/


I think you are right Humdinger, it was that day according to this article.


However, having said that, so many things slot into place when considering that Gary may have suffered drug-induced psychosis. His mum and Anika hanging onto hope that he may still be out there somewhere, the odd behaviours, his dad being peeved and 'never going back there', as if they knew he may have a problem sometimes when taking certain types of drugs (legal and illegal). The family never using that word 'accident'. The urgency of that huge search .. if they could only find him soon enough, he could be okay .. and still his mum and Anika did not give up hope.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/07/19/18/45/lost-man-a-bear-grylls-blue-mt-search

A report dating back to the 19th July just a few days after Gary disappeared has his sister Amy quoted as writing:
"You're a Tweddle, a survivor, our very own Gary 'Bear' Grylls. We will find you," she wrote.

And Det. Bostock saying: "Mr Tweddle was an "extremely fit" man who regularly attended boot camps and had been rock climbing in harsh Scottish and Welsh terrain with his British army officer father."

Everyone was worried but holding out hope that he was alive and just hiding out in the bush or injured somewhere close by to The Fairmont - I wonder if Gary had taken himself off alone on previous occasions??

As a local I'm still really struggling to work out how Gary got where he did at night without injuring himself WELL before he went over that section of cliff.

 

[bearbear]

not saying gary had an illness, but a lot of psychiatric disorders dont mix well with drugs and alcohol, and taken with antidepressants even worse, especially bipolar disorder, depression etc, can make symptoms worse or exaggerated.

 

[indigo7]

So, do you think that a drug-induced psychosis could have sort of 'crept up' on Gary that night?

He seemed (relatively) fine when he left the Fairmont to go and meet someone on Watkins Road. We're assuming that he had none or was out of drugs and his desire to party-on was great, hence the urgency about getting drugs right then, that night.

If he'd had his last taste earlier in the night, got himself down to Watkins Road safely, was hanging out talking on the phone (seen by two witnesses) - could psychosis then creep in? I would have thought that the drug would wear off and effects reduce, rather than increase?

I don't think Gary seemed (relatively) fine when he left the Hotel - Mystery still surrounds the night Mr Tweddle went missing but police have said previously that he was clearly affected by something.
A taxi dropped him off at the resort after he had been to dinner at Silk's Brasserie in Leura. He went back to one of the rooms to continue drinking and then left the room to go down to reception.
Security footage showed him running out of the main foyer without his jacket or glasses just after midnight.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gary-tweddles-body-formally-identified-20130904-2t5hl.html

 

[indigo7]

not saying gary had an illness, but a lot of psychiatric disorders dont mix well with drugs and alcohol, and taken with antidepressants even worse, especially bipolar disorder, depression etc, can make symptoms worse or exaggerated.

True bearbear...I know we discussed this quite a while back and Gary's medical records have never been made public. It wouldn't surprise me if Gary had an underlying medical condition that he was being treated for.

 

[bearbear]

I don't think Gary seemed (relatively) fine when he left the Hotel - Mystery still surrounds the night Mr Tweddle went missing but police have said previously that he was clearly affected by something.
A taxi dropped him off at the resort after he had been to dinner at Silk's Brasserie in Leura. He went back to one of the rooms to continue drinking and then left the room to go down to reception.
Security footage showed him running out of the main foyer without his jacket or glasses just after midnight.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gary-tweddles-body-formally-identified-20130904-2t5hl.html

and the taxi driver who dropped him off probably only half an hour earlier said "he was wasted". also if pambos wasnt there yet, why was he running,with no jacket or glasses, was he being chased or running from an argument?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think Gary seemed (relatively) fine when he left the Hotel - Mystery still surrounds the night Mr Tweddle went missing but police have said previously that he was clearly affected by something.
A taxi dropped him off at the resort after he had been to dinner at Silk's Brasserie in Leura. He went back to one of the rooms to continue drinking and then left the room to go down to reception.
Security footage showed him running out of the main foyer without his jacket or glasses just after midnight.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gary-tweddles-body-formally-identified-20130904-2t5hl.html

Quite honestly, I have never thought that Gary having a few sips of beer and running out of the Fairmont was odd. Not if he was going to meet someone close by, and intended to come right back. It was bitterly cold, I would have ran too - but I would have put my jacket on. I just couldn't understand why he would leave the Fairmont or its grounds at all, at midnight.

I thought things became very odd when he didn’t just return to the Fairmont after he had met with the person. And the every-changing content of the phone call was odd – he was in good spirits, then he was distraught, he begged the colleagues to stay on the phone, the colleagues begged him to stay on the phone, look in letterboxes, etc. etc. And finding him almost 2km away in a hard-to-reach area part-way down a cliff was odd.

Maybe it still is odd. But I can understand an ever-growing psychosis changing his frame of mind to be very messed up and think someone was after him and he had to hide … IF that is what happened.

As I think I have mentioned before, I knew someone who had a bad reaction to drugs while in hospital, and started ringing everyone he knew (in the middle of the night) to come and get him because the hospital staff were going to kill him. He would have tried to get out of there himself if he wasn’t so badly banged up and incapable of walking.

IF Gary was like that, I get it.

 

[FigTree]

Sun Herald. Read More...
Police insist it was an accidental death but would not speculate on Mr Tweddle's state of mind until results of a post-mortem and toxicology report were received.
"Until we get all the results of the post mortem and the toxicology report, we can't speculate on what his state of mind was," a senior police source said.


The Police no doubt by now have a better understanding of the state Gary was in.

The thing which can be detrimental to a case where drugs are involved is the truth of the situation.
If Gary was legitimately running from someone or something for what ever reason - it could be incorrectly dismissed as substance paranoia - yet there are also rational fears which surface during paranoia episodes, and some people straighten up to a degree to then take outrageous risks or confront people they fear. It is not a time to channel your 'Bear Grylls' mojo.

But it can also mean other lines of inquiry are diminished.
For the sake of Gary and his family - I hope all angles are investigated.

.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sun Herald. Read More...
Police insist it was an accidental death but would not speculate on Mr Tweddle's state of mind until results of a post-mortem and toxicology report were received.
"Until we get all the results of the post mortem and the toxicology report, we can't speculate on what his state of mind was," a senior police source said.


The Police no doubt by now have a better understanding of the state Gary was in.

The thing which can be detrimental to a case where drugs are involved is the truth of the situation.
If Gary was legitimately running from someone or something for what ever reason - it could be incorrectly dismissed as substance paranoia - yet there are also rational fears which surface during paranoia episodes, and some people straighten up to a degree to then take outrageous risks or confront people they fear. It is not a time to channel your 'Bear Grylls' mojo.

But it can also mean other lines of inquiry are diminished.
For the sake of Gary and his family - I hope all angles are investigated.

.

there are many powerful influences that would like this shushed up and written off as a young lad's misadventure. I still submit that foul play should be vigorously examined.

 

[FigTree]

there are many powerful influences that would like this shushed up and written off as a young lad's misadventure. I still submit that foul play should be vigorously examined.

I certainly take your point with that too rfa - there could possibly be many motivations in the que for many seemingly 'unrelated' aspects to Garys case.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

At the risk of being seen as flip-floppng (which I’m not, just trying to keep an open mind), I too think that all aspects of Gary’s death should be examined. I’m not happy to put this down to a drug-induced psychotic episode without some proof. It could just be an easy way to resolve a hard-to-explain death.

- If Gary was, in fact, on drugs that night, where did he get them from? Either his colleagues, Anika, or some other close friend must know – someone other than a drug dealer must know – surely he can’t have been that secretive?
- When did he take the drugs? Quiet at the restaurant, totally wasted in the taxi. Cocaine does not make a person quiet, at least not in the ‘party’ stage of the drug.
- Did Gary leave the Fairmont alone?
- Who was Gary flagging down on Watkins Road?
- Did Pambos even go to the Blue Mountains, or did he blow it off?

Because IF Gary was slipping into a psychotic episode, I can’t understand why someone didn’t pick up on it and watch him a little more closely/follow him out of the Fairmont/alert authorities a little more quickly.

 

[fruity]

I actually suspect that cocaine wasn't the only drug involved that night. We've only been told that Gary left the Fairmont to buy cocaine. No other drugs have been mentioned in MSM, but that doesn't mean they weren't involved.

MOO but I think he took something at the restaurant (not cocaine) then when he got back to the restaurant had some cocaine. He left to buy more and while he was out had some kind of a reaction from mixing the drugs. I think the people involved at the brasserie and resort have given police all the details and that's why police are so sure it was an accident. I think lots of puzzle pieces will fall into place after the inquest.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think (opinion and speculation only), that he was indeed high as a kite on most likely a mixture of drugs; something psychedelic and prolly cocaine on top of that. While we know he was amped up and running around, jumping, etc., I'm not so sure he went "over" that cliff versus being discarded or disposed over the cliff. There are so many people implicated in this, and they certainly have remained silent. COWARDS. They are sacrificing their integrity for some dumb azz corporate job. How do you sleep guys?
Sorry, I know that's harsh, but that's how I truly feel. I retract my harsh statement if they have been forthcoming with law enforcement. I hope so.
One thing is for sure, they didn't take very good care of their obviously not in a good state buddy that night. Really rather reprehensible.

MY OPINION AND SPECULATION ONLY. And, yes, a harsh opinion indeed it is.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

I agree with your feelings ^^^^ - If people choose to partake in the use of illicit substances, there is no excuse for people approaching and going about this in anything less than a "well lets do it as safely as possible and look out for eachother..." manner...

If you can't trust the people you're with to act appropriately should things go sideways, then you're going to find out the hard way that you're on your own when you most need assistance - and that can be deadly.

Its because of the "cover our own asses and hopefully he'll come good on his own - **** risking medical attention we'll get in the ****" attitudes that people are put in even more danger or worse, death. (Anna Wood is a great example that MSM will give you some google reseults to view)

Unfortunately, recreational illicit drugs are not regulated and not well documented or understood. Its the schedule system of classification that is partly to blame for this. A Schedule 1 drug is a substance that has been deemed of high risk for abuse and little to no medical value - and this also puts it in a category that makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for further experiementation and testing in well controlled and useful studies... that means the information that is gathered through loose studies of populations by self report coupled with decades of government propoganda that has made its way into main stream medical descriptions for effects and first aid advice has made a really risky choice of lifestyle entertainment about 10 times riskier.

In the interest of cutting my rant short, here's the bottom line:

If you do drugs, do it with other people around you who you can trust and know well.
Make sure these people are responsible and make sure everyone knows the rules from the start. Medical attention trumps awkquard questions or legal concerns. People's lives trump legal fall out.

Understand the substance you are choosing to partake in. Medically, Physically, Chemically and Physiologically. Know the best and the worst case scenario's and ensure that whatever your about to put in your body, is in fact what it is labled as.

No one is a hero for being a drug pig - if your eating stupid amounts of anything, its either time to go to rehab or time to change dealers. Drugs are incredibly powerful things that require only very very small amounts to throw your brain and body into complete chemical imbalance - and the difference between pushing a limit and crossing that line to a serious emergency situation is not one to be mistaken or taken lightly.

 

[Lexis]

In the interest of cutting my rant short, here's the bottom line:

If you do drugs, do it with other people around you who you can trust and know well.
Make sure these people are responsible and make sure everyone knows the rules from the start. Medical attention trumps awkquard questions or legal concerns. People's lives trump legal fall out.

Understand the substance you are choosing to partake in. Medically, Physically, Chemically and Physiologically. Know the best and the worst case scenario's and ensure that whatever your about to put in your body, is in fact what it is labled as.

.

Sensible advice but still there are the unknown factors. Who would get a CYP450 test first, to see if they're a poor metaboliser of drugs etc?


I have posted this book on the thread before, will post again as the author tells of several of his friends and himself on an acid trip (in Random Rogues and Ratbag Tales). The author Monty got through it ok, another guy went ga ga and went to hospital, another guy never really came back and became obsessed with dying and another guy became a born again Christian for the rest of his days til now. They were all friends but the guy who divided the drug amongst the friends, had gotten the maths wrong due to an unclear label and they all had way more than what they otherwise would have taken.

N.b ... the author tells of how he became aware of the guy who became obsessed with thoughts of dying and as they were walking around cliff faces on the coast, felt he needed to keep an eye on him. Monty said he tried to communicate the guy's fragile state to the others but the others didn't have a clue as to what he meant as they were each absorbed in their own individual trip.


The story highlights how people react to the same compound and same quantity, individually (IMO)

http://www.tracksmag.com/201210045052/Reviews/Music/Creative/Monty-Webber’s-Random-Rogues.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Interesting story, Lexis. Will have to read that book - if I've been good and Santa brings me a kindle for Xmas. :santahat:

Just thinking though ... when did Gary go from a 3x a week boot camp workout guy, an outdoors adventurer, an Oracle top achiever, a steady boyfriend ... to a user of a potentially wide range of (harmful) drugs? Seems to go against the grain of working out and keeping fit.

I've sat down and had a good think about it. I don't dispute that people saw him acting 'strangely/wasted', or that people say he was trying to source cocaine. I have noticed a comment from one of his good friends in the UK about how they used to tear up the dance floor, and I understand that drugs can be associated with rave parties. But it is not clear if Gary went to rave parties, or if he just liked to dance while out.

I guess the police must have a lot more evidence than we've heard about.

:dunno:

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Interesting story, Lexis. Will have to read that book - if I've been good and Santa brings me a kindle for Xmas. :santahat:

Just thinking though ... when did Gary go from a 3x a week boot camp workout guy, an outdoors adventurer, an Oracle top achiever, a steady boyfriend ... to a user of a potentially wide range of (harmful) drugs? Seems to go against the grain of working out and keeping fit.



:dunno:

LOL oh SouthAussie... I say this without any offence meant at all, but oh how wrong you are about the reasoning there... he almost perfectly fits the profile for a frequent recreationalcoke or meth user... The high paying job, the high paced lifestyle, the work hard party harder culture in IT and Sales careers... And if that isn't enough to convince you, his dealer drove all the way from Sydney for him. Important guy.