Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[doradodds]

This doesn't at all support the assumption she was "on alert" for the entire time. Ie, peering out the blinds with her eye on the house all day? She was recovering from surgery..

I must say also, that the question of how Cook could have entered the property without being noticed is a very good one.

I think it's possible -somebody- could have -- I live in a high-density area, and my neighbour's property is literally ten feet from where I am sitting right now, with a clear view out the window of the pathway. However, I don't keep tabs on who comes and goes - and several times I have been surprised by her son making a sudden noise on the other side of the fence - I did not see him arrive. Because I don't watch my neighbours -that- closely. Who does?

Well I guess you will just have to investigate that for yourself because me telling you is not going to be of any use.
I know the area well. It is not high density -it is a quiet residential area and if you were home and awake - and the neighbour was and she could hear the dog crying she'd hear someone drive up into the driveway across the road.

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay, I just went through every post I've made here. Every comment re the subject of an affair is put in terms of "if" and "maybe" and is thus clearly speculation, except two (eta sorry, three) things:

1. I said "clearly having an affair" - which, as he stated (before he changed his story..) he was.

2. That he "moved his lover in" as was strongly suggested by the phrasing in one msm report -- and (as I posted previously in a post I have suggested you read several times now) I actually posted proof that the woman who moved in was NOT a lover but a housemate that he'd advertised for, but these posts were removed by admin, as they were not mentioned in msm reports. So my retraction was made, but was removed.

3. That he intended "beginning a new life with another woman" - he DID offer her "better life", this on record.

There's no need to be hostile.

 

[Ausgirl]

I am grateful for the information, though. Opinions aside, that is helpful.

And for the very good question of how a person (any person) could gain access to the property without being seen. I highly doubt anyone planning a murder would haul up into the driveway. So to discount this possibility, we'd have to look at other means of access, where they might have parked, how they might enter on foot, etc.

The 'moved hand' thing shows it's quite likely --someone-- entered that property prior to the discovery of her body. For me, the question is therefore not "whether" but "who and how".

 

[Ausgirl]

Figgy - wow, This timeline is awesome!

I'm only about 3/4 through the one I was doing, so maybe I'll just add a timeline addendum for events prior and after the dates you've included. I can't do the nice spreadsheet thing either. This is so appreciated, mad skillz!

 

[MsAnais]

FigTree, I second Ausgirl re the timeline!

You rock!!:rockon:

 

[enzeder]

FigTree, I second Ausgirl re the timeline!

You rock!!:rockon:

Me three! - Thank you so much FigTree.

Looking through those times, starting at approx. 11am, I'm thinking that 'someone' left work and made a trip home around that time. imo

 

[Makara]

If I recall...
I have a feeling it was in their professional capacity to obtain the documents as they later submitted information relevant to the toxicology report regarding levels in the blood samples taken from the liver.

I think it was DrWatson and Makira?

All of the documents we purchased in Allison's case were part of the bail application and committal hearing. They were made available for purchase after GBC had been committed to trial.

 

[Makara]

Would someone kindly explain to me about using ice to resist the temptation to cut oneself. Does ice in this instance refer to methamphetamine, more commonly known as crystal meth or ice, or does it simply mean a block of ice (frozen water)? Please excuse my ignorance in this matter but I don't know anything about 'cutters' and the drug known as ice.

 

[MsAnais]

Would someone kindly explain to me about using ice to resist the temptation to cut oneself. Does ice in this instance refer to methamphetamine, more commonly known as crystal meth or ice, or does it simply mean a block of ice (frozen water)? Please excuse my ignorance in this matter but I don't know anything about 'cutters' and the drug known as ice.

The reference was to ice blocks, from memory. Not methamphetamine :facepalm: I haven't gone back to re-read but she was either rubbing ice on her body or chewing it as a diversion/alternative to self-harm.

And I want to re-iterate what I stated earlier on thread - cutting oneself as a self-harm mechanism is an entirely different story to having suicidal ideation. Self-harm does not equal trying to die. It equals the release/relief of pent up emotion through physical pain. Just wanted to make that clear again!

 

[BatWoman]

I don't see the sense in settling on one conclusion when I haven't ruled out all options. I'd prefer to follow each possibility as far as it can go. I haven't totally excluded anything, but i don't think there will any resolution here due to the lack of investigation at the scene. I really doubt much sleuthing can be done given the fact that records are incomplete and evidence wasn't checked. So at the moment it's a matter of tossing in what we can find and seeing if it points to anything.

I'm still confused with the moved hand while she was in rigor. I need to give that more thought I think.

 

[Ausgirl]

Some people find it helps to rub an ice cube on their skin when they have the urge to cut themselves, I'm guessing it's to do with having an analogous sensory experience?

^omg. I am too slow =P

 

[Oddsocks]

Ice cubes are used to cause harmless discomfort

 

[FigTree]

All of the documents we purchased in Allison's case were part of the bail application and committal hearing. They were made available for purchase after GBC had been committed to trial.

OOps - sorry for the name spelling in the post Makara :blush:
Im not sure then what would be available in the way of Jennys case
It seems there is also an Application for a Forensic Order as well for the docs.
We'll keep sleuthing and see if they become available.
Thanks!
:seeya:

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Dora - I am the one with professional experience, not Ausgirl (as far as I know).

You've got confused about who has written what.

And regarding understanding suicide, being a 'detached' professional - as you put it - does not negate my understanding of it IMO. I have worked with hundreds of people who have attempted suicide. I have sat with them and their families for hours and weeks and months in the aftermath, as well as with families who have lost loved ones to suicide.

But none of this has ANYTHING to do with the logical analysis of Jenny's case. This requires a cool, objective head - not emotion laden responses. Emotion clouds judgement, big-time.

If this was a suicide. It is the first time I have read where the person whom committed suicide chose a method that could give the impression a murder occurred. I have read where killers would make it look like the victim committed suicide, but this would be the first time I have read where the person whom committed suicide made it look as if a murder could have possibly occured...........In all your experience have you ever seen a case such as this pertaining to suicides?.............Thank you in advance for your answer.

 

[enzeder]

Just wondering how DS Osborn would know "that only Ms Cook’s fingerprints had been found on the knife" when the knife "was never dusted for fingerprints".

Ms Pullen said that the day after Ms Cook’s death DS Osborn phoned her and told her that Ms Cook had died of a knife wound to the chest and that it was self-inflicted. Ms Pullen phoned her back shortly afterwards and said that she thought this was impossible. DS Osborn assured her it was the case and told her that only Ms Cook’s fingerprints had been found on the knife.
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf

A KNIFE at the centre of the bizarre death of a Townsville woman was never dusted for fingerprints, and was disposed of by police before a coronial inquest was conducted, a court has heard.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...s-police-process/story-fnjfzs4b-1226770086680

The knife was swabbed for DNA but was never fingerprinted and was destroyed on December 4, 2009.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/knife-in-inquest-spotlight/story-fnjfzs4b-1226770923430

 

[BatWoman]

I wonder if the DNA swab is still in evidence somewhere. But they probably only swabbed the sharp end. :facepalm:

 

[marlywings]

I've removed a bunch of posts and will be reviewing the posts on previous pages also.

1. As per WS rules, "goodbye" posts aren't allowed...

It is the policy of WS to disallow threads that are purely to announce that you are 'leaving the site' for any reason. Posts of this nature will result in the following action: 1) The post will be removed from general view. 2) Your membership will be suspended without notice. 3) If you wish to have your membership reinstated then you may contact an Administrator or Moderator to request this. If you find it necessary to 'leave' WS for any reason - or just take a break from the site - then you are welcome to notify your WS friends via personal Private Message.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iquette-amp-Information&p=8364858#post8364858

2. Rather than rehash the same point over and over, if one of those involved in the discussion says "agree to disagree" then the debate is over. It's simply not necessary for everyone to jump in to label something as being "pointless". Other options are the alert button, the ignore feature and/or scrolling on by.

3. Unless or until police name someone as a suspect or POI don't make random accusations

 

[enzeder]

I haven't caught up on the thread yet so sorry if this has already been discussed. Was Jenny impaled on that knife "for at least an hour"?. :facepalm:

NOVEMBER 28, 2013: Inquest queries police process
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...s-police-process/story-fnjfzs4b-1226770086680

Prof Williams said he found "therapeutic" amounts of Diazepam, Temazepam and alcohol in Mrs Cook's body. He said he found hypostasis, where circulation loss causes blood to pool in certain areas, in Mrs Cook's hands, suggesting she had plunged herself on the knife and remained in that position for at least an hour.

A report by a Scenes of Crime officer said Mrs Cook would have been dead within 10 minutes.

Prof Williams said Mrs Cook may have remained impaled on the knife until gravity took over. He agreed it was conjecture to say it was "daft" for someone else to push her on to the knife.

 

[MsAnais]

I haven't caught up on the thread yet so sorry if this has already been discussed. Was Jenny impaled on that knife "for at least an hour"?. :facepalm:

Oh :facepalm: That's AWFUL!! I missed that detail.

Blessings to Jenny.

 

[MsAnais]

If this was a suicide. It is the first time I have read where the person whom committed suicide chose a method that could give the impression a murder occurred. I have read where killers would make it look like the victim committed suicide, but this would be the first time I have read where the person whom committed suicide made it look as if a murder could have possibly occured...........In all your experience have you ever seen a case such as this pertaining to suicides?.............Thank you in advance for your answer.

Hi MrTT :seeya:

I personally have never, ever seen a case where the deceased has attempted to make suicide look like a murder.

I've also never read about that or even heard about it during discussions/debriefing sessions with colleagues........

Which is not to say that it never happens, but it would be highly unusual.

And even if a woman was going to set the scene to look like murder, perhaps out of fear of upsetting her family due to suicide, I really don't believe that THIS methodology is what a woman would choose. It's far too uncertain and violent IMO.

But this is MOO, of course!