GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #2

[truth_morph]

Apparently the information van on Hope St has packed up and left. Maybe there's significant leads. Here's hoping. lease:

 

[revampz]

Hi Revampz! We just moved down to Melbourne from near Townsville a few months ago Hello

I taped the Today Show today as I knew I wouldn't get a chance to watch it. I'll have a look at it either tonight or tomorrow morning...see if there's anything about a red hatch back. I'll post what I hear!

wow....excellent.....I know I heard it somewhere, but think it could be the local townsville news....and hahaha if you have lived up here, you know how good that can be. Actually I woke up at 9.07, so could not be Today. a bit luxurious I know, but it's school hols!!! I have checked everywhere to see where I could have got that about a red hatchback and it is nowhere......my mother said that I definitely told her this morning that the guys were in a red hatchback....am thinking locals have given out too much info

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Aw, thanks. :blushing:

IHAVENOCLUE - Thanks for that article on Ivy. I didn't follow the case to the end, so had no idea that WS had been so instrumental in bringing her home! We always wondered whether she was reading what was being said, turns out she was. It's reassuring that she knows how much people care about her, even strangers on the other side of the world. It's also nice to know that sometimes these cases do have a happy ending, it's just sad we don't see it more often. :twocents:

You know.... when I was considering whether to register with WS or not, considering my limited sleuthing skills... what helped me make up my mind was the info on WS that stated that the family of the missing may read these threads and gain some comfort from knowing there are others in the world concerned with their loved ones, too!

I figured... Now THAT I can do... try to support the families!!!

I never realized it could also be a direct channel in supporting the missing, too, as in Ivy Merck's case!

Serendipity? It's a wonder what can happen when many people gather with a common goal of helping others!


:seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

haha Captain Chrissie....I was wondering what you meant by ladykiller??? was thinking it must have been a nod to the coen bros movie....

and re the red car.....man you have got me there now. I will have to try and find a link but I was listening the tv while getting dressed this morning and was particularly interested in the "new info" they had, and they definitely did say red car on that report....it was the today show or my local news, they were talking about what the guy in black saw.....will see if I can find a link

The "red car" has definitely piqued my interest...

The connection between a "red car" and the two cases could really be critical!

 

[fruity]

:welcome:

If someone calls me when I am on my mobile it will ring normally and eventually go through to voicemail - it doesn't go straight to voicemail. I get a notification beep to say there is another call and an option to go to it or ignore it.

I am sure if she rang 000 it would have been reported. I am guessing that an open line and no comment would be treated pretty seriously. MOO

Thanks for the welcome . I've been lurking for years (I used to read mostly the JonBenet Ramsay threads) but I registered a while ago and didn't post.

I agree that an open line would have been treated seriously and that if she rang 000 it would have been reported.

My phone must be different - if I'm on a call I have a notification beep to say that someone called - my phone sends them straight to voicemail (maybe I chose that in settings, I can't remember). My DH's goes straight through too, but now that I think about it, my Mum's doesn't.

 

[alioop]

The 5pm Channell 1o Melbourne News reported the following:

Vic Police have found additional CCTv from other shops that shows clearer vision of BH but will not be releasing this to the public at this stage.
snipped

If this is true, then I am guessing the police must not feel it is necessary to release the clearer footage for the purposes of identifying him. Perhaps that means they already know who he is.

 

[they'll get you]

If this was the case, her phone would have been engaged and would have immediately gone to voicemail when her brother and husband rang. Didn't they say that it rang out before going to voicemail?

No, I was wishing she had.

 

[GutFeeling!]

without sounding like ive lost hope of her being alive, up Hope street, just after tullamarine overpass is a long creek, easily accessible, has this area been searched by police I wonder

I wish there was more information on what searches have been conducted and where too. If I was in that area I would volunteer to help in searches. When you know where police are searching that usually brings people out to help anyway they can.

I have heard very little about searches since Sunday, except to say that the area where her handbag was found was initially searched by police.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The reporter probably wouldn't have known about the case as it didn't happen in Australia.
I had to google it as the name was unknown to me and I follow all the missing persons etc case here so sounds like it didn't make the news here in Australia

Aha!... But this reporter did not mentions that Websleuths was instrumental in helping bring Ivy Merck home, now did he? Hmmmm? :smile:

:great: Websleuths!

JMO

 

[LittleMissContrary]

After spending several hours this morning watching the video in the slowest possible speed, I made several observations. I wasn't able to post the entire video in its full version due to the length restrictions on youtube. I was also having a bit of trouble with the unfriendly video editing program.

A few observations:
There was a fair amount of car traffic on the street, although most of it appeared to be taxis.
The silver car passed by twice.
Right before Jill appears on the screen, a vehicle( possibly a minivan or maybe a taxi?)pulled directly across the street from the dress shop and sat there for a while. At some point, someone seemed to exit the vehicle and walk towards the left of the screen.
Shortly after the person exits the vehicle and is no longer in view, Jill and BH appear on the screen.
The guy who was the last person to pass the boutique shop, before Jill and BH appear, seemed odd to me. I was almost wondering if he was wearing sunglasses or something. From what little can be seen of his facial expression, he looked like he was smirking a bit. He clearly looks back down the street, and then looks directly into the shop and possibly into the camera. If he did see Jill being hassled, he sure did not seem to take it too seriously. Wondering if there might have been a connection between him and bh. ( just to clarify, I am not talking about the gentleman in the orange/red sweatshirt.


Here are my impressions regarding the interactions between them, based on the hand gestures, posture, body language, etc.

When they first appear in view of the camera, it looks like BH intercepts Jill and is uncomfortably in her space, causing her to take a step back.
She wants to go forward but he is preventing her from doing so.
He seems to be trying to convince her of something or is attempting to get something from her. She seems to be very reluctant to move forward with him, but it looks like he is guiding her forward to some degree. His right arm seems very close to her body, and at an angle that someone would use to usher you forward.
I think there is a very real possibility that this person had already scoped out the surveillance camera, as he makes every effort to position his body so that his face is not ever directly pointing at the camera. It is also possible that he did not take note of the camera until he was standing there with her, which is why he moves ahead of her and stays closer to the wall where he can't be seen clearly.
The next part of the sequence is the most critical in my opinion because I do think that he pulled out a weapon of some kind, either a small pistol or a knife. When he moves forward, he does a " single grapevine-ish" to the left and reaches across his body and then turns slightly towards her with his body, extending his arm in her direction and motioning her ahead. For a second on the film, it definitely appears as though it is an object in his hand.
If this did happen, it presents a very perplexing situation. Why would she not cry or scream or walk away?
I think that she holds her hands out in front of her in a defensive, " hey don't shoot me" pose, after he appears to point something at her. She has her cellphone in her hand. You can see that she is unsure of what to do, and so she starts making small movements away from him and towards the street. She then appears to fumble around with her phone for a minute.
Why would he allow her to stall if he was planning on abducting her? This interaction does not follow the standard "surprise and grab" abduction, I don't think it would be inconceivable for her to try and stall or buy time while still on the street. I think she looks around and behind her to see if there is any chance that someone is going to see what is going on and come to her aid. She may have weighed her options and then reluctantly started walking, with a plan to try and outrun him or ditch him.
Initially I thought he walked on ahead of her, and she followed. I watched that part of the film several times and realized that he did not actually walk away first, he is just largely out of the camera view. If you look closely at the small open section in the window, you will see his leg(s) are still moving.
When she finally starts walking again, her body posture looks like she is very reluctant, like a small child when they "don't wanna go!" somewhere.
After they are out of the camera view completely, there are several cars that pass by rather quickly. One of them is a blue car, and a small dark colored car.
Sorry for rambling.
I also do not think this person acted alone. I think there may have been one and possibly two more people involved. One would be a driver, and the other could have been someone acting as a lookout of sorts.

I was very bothered by the way that he moved. It seemed angry, his jaw was set like a pitbull, and his posture screamed with intensity and malice.
I know that might come across as a stretch, but as always, it is just my opinion.

Excuse any grammatical errors and poorly constructed sentences, and whatnot, as I am exhausted and not on point at the moment.

 

[Fuskier]

I swore I wouldn't start hypothesising based on the very little info we have - but here's a thought. If there was some sort of ploy to get her to walk further up the street, like suggesting someone else was following her, BH (or whoever harmed her) may have said he would accompany her up the street to the police station - I'm not from the area but didn't someone say there was a police station further up the road? But she was attacked before she got there.

Her body language, to me, suggests she was tossing up what to do - I don't get the feeling that she was threatened to do something during the time of the CCTV (with a gun, knife, etc). I feel she was making a decision i.e. to keep walking, to stop, make a call, etc. Like something was a bit off, and she was figuring out what to do next. The fact that she continued on her path says to me she felt it was safer to keep going, than turn back the way she came. For whatever reason.

Two comments: 1) Her judgement would likely have been impaired; 2) each of us has a different response to threat i.e. fight/flight/freeze. Sometimes our first response to shock is denial. Possible that she may have tried to deny the gravity of the situation; also possible she felt trapped, kept it to herself whilst trying to figure out what to do. This guy seems to be a predator. She may have no choice. Possible he could have ordered her not to answer the phone. Just some thoughts at this point. IMO.

 

[DrWatson]

I'd like to know why we've heard no more about the couple with the frisbee thing, the guy with the messenger bag, or the guy in the suit that turns to look over his shoulder at something that is happening behind him.

Where are all these people? They would appear NOT to be implicated, but may have important information - especially the guy in the suit?

Why haven't they come forward? The police are saying they've still only had the one person come forward - the guy in the orange/red top. So where are all the others? Surely they can't be unaware of the CCTV footage and requests to come forward? It's everywhere...

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

There is a missing five seconds in the video released yesterday, but police say it has not been edited

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/one...a-for-witnesses/story-fnat7jnn-1226482146903#

Thanks Marlywings!

I went back and found where I posted the quote from another poster's link:

Thread #2 - Pg. 4 - Post #98

I guess it is really time that I learn how to post links... I was taught how to from a PC user, and I have a Mac.. so I got lost at the Right Click/Left Click... But there are no Right/Left Clicks on a Mac. Sorry! :blushing:

 

[truth_morph]

If this is true, then I am guessing the police must not feel it is necessary to release the clearer footage for the purposes of identifying him. Perhaps that means they already know who he is.

That's what I'm clinging too. The CCTV - if it is clearer - could reveal registration plates.

I honestly don't believe someone without a criminal record gravitates towards abduction (and possibly murder) without baby steps first. By that I mean, other smaller offences ... i.e. flashing, assault etc.

Who knows, the DNA and/or fingerprints could have yielded some positive identification.

I'm hoping BH is under surveillance.

Oh, on that note ... do we know if there's CCTV in the alley where Jill's bag was found?

 

[truth_morph]

Just to saturate the thread with my posts. Would I be ridiculous by suggesting a professional hit?

I know, I know ... it's something I thought of today. There's just things that don't add up.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Thanks Marlywings!

I went back and found where I posted the quote from another poster's link:

Thread #2 - Pg. 4 - Post #98

I guess it is really time that I learn how to post links... I was taught how to from a PC user, and I have a Mac.. so I got lost at the Right Click/Left Click... But there are no Right/Left Clicks on a Mac. Sorry! :blushing:

Press 'Command' and 'v' at the same time. That's the paste shortcut on the Mac

 

[Sleuthilicious]

That's what I'm clinging too. The CCTV - if it is clearer - could reveal registration plates.

I honestly don't believe someone without a criminal record gravitates towards abduction (and possibly murder) without baby steps first. By that I mean, other smaller offences ... i.e. flashing, assault etc.

Who knows, the DNA and/or fingerprints could have yielded some positive identification.

I'm hoping BH is under surveillance.

Oh, on that note ... do we know if there's CCTV in the alley where Jill's bag was found?

There could be....but I sincerely doubt it. The alleyway on the left hand side is really quite bare and then you have to turn right into another alleyway/driveway to be where the bag was found. It's pretty secluded and dark too.

MOO

 

[fruity]

I just need to ask for clarification about this rule:

do not copy and paste comments from social media: the only facebook allowed is the official site by the family and main stream media.

An observation about cars in the CCTV was made on the 'Help Us Find Jill Meagher' FB page. Am I allowed to discuss it here? I think the page was set up by her husband, but the comment was not made by him.

 

[marlywings]

I wish there was more information on what searches have been conducted and where too. If I was in that area I would volunteer to help in searches. When you know where police are searching that usually brings people out to help anyway they can.

I have heard very little about searches since Sunday, except to say that the area where her handbag was found was initially searched by police.

In a report from Tuesday it seems the searches were ongoing...

September 25, 2012

Meanwhile, a crew of grim-faced SES volunteers gathered to be briefed by investigators before fanning out to search the dozens of nooks where a clue might be found.

They did not yet appear to be sifting through the industrial rubbish bins scattered around the neighbourhood. Perhaps they will get to them today, barring a breakthrough in what has inevitably become a homicide squad investigation

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tr...ll-meaghers-path/story-fnat7jnn-1226480574361


ETA: And from Monday's reports...


"We're getting SES volunteers to assist us with a line search in the vicinity. We'll be looking in rubbish bins and things like that."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-24/jill-meagher-missing/4276752

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/y...ually-assaulted-after-con-20120801-23dvb.html

I think this may be what people are recalling in terms of a red car.

This is one of the stories with a suspect fitting a similar description to BH.

Great Retrieval, Stick!:woohoo: