GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

[catswhiskers]

Maybe they have lots of footage of him and Jill separately but only one or two in particular that capture his face very clearly. The police didn't release this footage and they identified him "internally" I read, presumably from that footage. Then they watched him.

I read that too - police had already identified him, and carefully chose the bridal shop footage specifically because his face wasn't clear. I imagine they were looking for different information - not just the who, but the what and where after those few minutes.

MOO

 

[scarlett_vendetta]

:maddening:

I'd have thought so too but I read somewhere that Jill knew tai Kwan do ( or however you spell it). And it didn't stop this monster overpowering her!

Yeah I read that too, I think it was her mother who said it. IMO i'd rather have some form of defence than none at all.

 

[alioop]

Maybe they have lots of footage of him and Jill separately but only one or two in particular that capture his face very clearly. The police didn't release this footage and they identified him "internally" I read, presumably from that footage. Then they watched him.

Sorry to quote myself but I wanted to add that I think the police knew from cctv footage what happened up to Duchess bridal but then publicised the Duchess footage as they were wanting to know what happened after that as they had no more footage from that point on and wanted the public's help to see if anyone saw anything about what happened at that time and what happened immediately afterwards.

 

[fruity]

I honestly think if he had a gun that it would have been mentioned by now. He would have more charges for possession of a weapon, and the charge would be aggravated abduction no? imo

Yes, you're probably right.

 

[scarlett_vendetta]

I read that too - police had already identified him, and carefully chose the bridal shop footage specifically because his face wasn't clear. I imagine they were looking for different information - not just the who, but the what and where after those few minutes.

MOO

IMO the CCTV footage released to the public was for the witnesses to come forward to build on the brief of evidence, as far as i can tell from the news reports they already had the perp under surveillance when they released it to the public.

 

[LeoBear]

More detail on the Anita Cobby murder. Warning - graphic!

http://watchingrobertpickton88015.yuku.com/topic/2105#.UGaUCTdhic0

 

[Amee]

By Tuesday night police told the Herald Sun they were reviewing CCTV footage that had opened up its best lead and would release it the next day.

It is believed the release on Wednesday at 1pm of the CCTV from Duchess Boutique, which did not clearly show the accused man's face, was used to gather more intelligence.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s-body-was-found/story-fndo2dsc-1226483793882

 

[Tishy]

Yes her mum mentioned it...

EDITH MCKEON: She's quite slight, but she, you know, she has done tae-kwon-do and she is a fighter

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3597056.htm

Sad thought, but maybe that's why he killed her..because she fought him tooth and nail. Is it better to not fight? I don't know.

 

[fruity]

:maddening:

I'd have thought so too but I read somewhere that Jill knew tai Kwan do ( or however you spell it). And it didn't stop this monster overpowering her!

I know tae kwan do, but I don't count it as useful when it comes to defending myself in dangerous situations because I'm a woman and I don't weigh much. I'm easily overpowered. The best thing anyone can do is a 'drop and roll' class. Your aim, if you're ever attacked, is to get away. Tae kwan do can help you to get a bit of distance, but you really don't want to engage physically unless you absolutely have to. Dropping and rolling gives you a slightly better distance than tae kwan do.

Some other tips I've picked up:
* if you're told to hand over your purse, do it. But throw it away from you, then run in the other direction. Everything in there can be replaced. Sure it's a pain in the bum, but your life is worth it.
* if you're grabbed from behind, pull forwards then smash your head back into your attacker's face if you're tall enough. The back of your skull will hopefully connect with his nose and cause him to lose grip. If you're not tall enough, drive your heel back into his knee. Hard.
* scream 'fire'. People don't listen to 'help' but they'll come running to shoults that there's a fire.
* as the video I posted yesterday said, never allow yourself to be taken to anther location.

 

[Makara]

Good post Doc and I totally agree with you.

Just re the map that was posted a couple of pages ago, and somebody mentioning the "laneway" running up behind the Turkish restaurant.

That's not quite correct - the laneway where the bag was found was the little laneway heading SOUTH off Hope St, not far after turning into Hope St (i.e. turn left into the laneway) The thing that was called the "laneway" on that map that was posted, is in fact, Little Breese St. That is NOT where the bag was found.

Also, the pizza shop that provided the CCTV footage was SOUTH of Hope St - number was 3-something - it was mentioned in one of the news articles this morning. The camera was looking NORTH - up towards Hope St, and towards the Duchess Boutique.

I don't think Jill did go beyond Hope St. I think she went left into Hope St, towards her normal route home, either willingly or was forced that way, and then into the little laneway to her left. I suspect - but no proof - that AB's car may well have been parked down that laneway, where you go down a little concrete ramp, and then you can turn right down another lane to get to Ovens St. But beyond THAT little laneway is some grassy, waste ground, a couple of sheds, and a load of old skips on a waste block that fronts onto Ovens St.

My suspicion is that it was down there, where AB may well have pre-positioned his car after that first walk past the Duchess camera, and where he then lured Jill to the opening of the laneway then forced her the rest of the way. And that was probably where the scream came from. And also where she may have dropped her bag. Pure guesswork, of course, on my part. But it would seem to fit the facts we have.

If you go back and find the link to that reporter who shot the video of the walk from Duchess Boutique to Jill's home area, he turned down that laneway, - in fact a guy ahead of him looked at bit worried and darted off down the laneway to Ovens St - and you can see the more desolate waste area I'm referring to. I have a feeling that that is where the crime occurred.

All he would have had to do then was drive out of the laneway, making sure traffic wasn't coming, turn right then left and he's on Sydney Rd heading north and away. From there, he may have called home to get a shovel, or he may have already had one in the back of the car.

Well - it's one theory, at least....

 

[fruity]

BBM - I think that is what he did, when he "strolls" south the second time he has everything set up.

Off Topic: How bout them Swans?

I can't believe there's a point in it at 3/4 time. We're on the edge of our seats here.

I was thinking earlier that in some parts of Melbourne it's so festive, yet in others it couldn't be more different. Jill's poor family.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Does that mean that he was known to them.
Been wondering what the expression means. Googling let me down this time.

Maybe they have lots of footage of him and Jill separately but only one or two in particular that capture his face very clearly. The police didn't release this footage and they identified him "internally" I read, presumably from that footage. Then they watched him.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

I would lay a bet it ends Carl Williams style. I would also bet there'd be people lining up.....:what:

Would anyone even have an opportunity to though? Aren't these types of criminals segregated from the general prison population? Seem to remember a post awhile back saying they are usually grouped together and protected. Was Carl Williams under protection?

Such a sad horrific case. I can't seem to snap out of it. How can such an incident affect you so much when you don't even know the victim at all?

 

[bearbear]

Just re the map that was posted a couple of pages ago, and somebody mentioning the "laneway" running up behind the Turkish restaurant.

That's not quite correct - the laneway where the bag was found was the little laneway heading SOUTH off Hope St, not far after turning into Hope St (i.e. turn left into the laneway) The thing that was called the "laneway" on that map that was posted, is in fact, Little Breese St. That is NOT where the bag was found.

Also, the pizza shop that provided the CCTV footage was SOUTH of Hope St - number was 3-something - it was mentioned in one of the news articles this morning. The camera was looking NORTH - up towards Hope St, and towards the Duchess Boutique.

I don't think Jill did go beyond Hope St. I think she went left into Hope St, towards her normal route home, either willingly or was forced that way, and then into the little laneway to her left. I suspect - but no proof - that AB's car may well have been parked down that laneway, where you go down a little concrete ramp, and then you can turn right down another lane to get to Ovens St. But beyond THAT little laneway is some grassy, waste ground, a couple of sheds, and a load of old skips on a waste block that fronts onto Ovens St.

My suspicion is that it was down there, where AB may well have pre-positioned his car after that first walk past the Duchess camera, and where he then lured Jill to the opening of the laneway then forced her the rest of the way. And that was probably where the scream came from. And also where she may have dropped her bag. Pure guesswork, of course, on my part. But it would seem to fit the facts we have.

If you go back and find the link to that reporter who shot the video of the walk from Duchess Boutique to Jill's home area, he turned down that laneway, - in fact a guy ahead of him looked at bit worried and darted off down the laneway to Ovens St - and you can see the more desolate waste area I'm referring to. I have a feeling that that is where the crime occurred.

All he would have had to do then was drive out of the laneway, making sure traffic wasn't coming, turn right then left and he's on Sydney Rd heading north and away. From there, he may have called home to get a shovel, or he may have already had one in the back of the car.

Well - it's one theory, at least....

i totally agree! after seeing that video cam walk through and seeing that waste ground it just felt right for where it happened, also her bag was found there. there are lots of spaces to park a car unseen. i wonder if there are any cctv cameras installed back there?
also if he called home to get the shovel, it could coincide with his neighbours hearing or seeing a car pull up around that time?
plus he was walking with urgency in that cctv footage like he was setting something up, like he had staked out his prey and was getting everything ready.

 

[ozgirl70]

So if the pizza shop CCTV faced Sydney rd and that is past Hope st - any theories to connect the dots with the handbag in Hope Lane (if it was indeed placed back where the local found it) ?

If Jill was heading north then the pizza shop that got the footage is not the one past Hope st. It has to be one further back down in the direction that they walked from. I think.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
jmo

 

[GutFeeling!]

This is my point. I imagine that if the woman (from the Turkish shop) works in the area and is familiar with the comings and goings/antics of people in the early hours of Saturday morning -why did she hear the scream and call the police? If it was something she heard regularly and was desensitised to?

I was responding to frustrated detectives post about kids screaming a lot

 

[Makara]

:maddening:

I'd have thought so too but I read somewhere that Jill knew tai Kwan do ( or however you spell it). And it didn't stop this monster overpowering her!

And this is what makes me think AB had a weapon. It really does look like he has a gun in his right hand and Jill puts her hands in front of her in the Duchess Boutique CCTV footage.

 

[Amee]

The Age reports that Bayley was put under surveillance by a police unit known as "The Dogs" after he became a suspect in Ms Meagher's disappearance.

Police will allege that Bayley abducted Ms Meagher, sexually assaulted her in a side street and used his own shovel to bury her in a shallow grave in Gisborne, 50km away from Brunswick.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8540465/alleged-meagher-murderer-easygoing-confident

 

[Fuskier]

Good find! ... Just a thought!

''' What if he was running to get his gun from his car. That would explain why he was walking with his hand in his pocket on his second pass in front of Duchess bridal.

:moo:

Some 18 year old male observers of the video also thought similarly i.e. that he went ahead to get a weapon (gun) from another person or from his car, then came back, hand in left hoodie pocket, more deliberate in his approach as he 'closed in on his prey'. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[ozgirl70]

Does that mean that he was known to them.
Been wondering what the expression means. Googling let me down this time.

The police would have already had a list of possible suspects, and going by prior form AB must have stood out as a very likely candidate.
I'd guess that once they had his face it was just a matter of matching it to his mugshot on their database.

I bet he's kicking himself now for not checking for cameras. He looks cocky enough to still think he'd be home free if it weren't for the cctv.

On a side note, I bet his ex wives/girlfriends have a few stories to tell.