GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[possumheart]

Oh thanks for that I probably had read it and had it in the back of my subconscious
Manufacturing? What sort of stuff?

Refrigerants

 

[DrWatson]

Just for the chloroform theorists - it is hard to get, and the main problem is that it doesn't behave like you see in those old movies and TV series.

It actually takes a minute or two to work (one reason why it is not used in anaesthetics and hasn't been for many decades), and it also has a short action - as soon as you remove the chloroform, people wake up very quickly.

That's why ether took over from chloroform, before intravenous anaesthesia became the standard method. And even ether had a very short action. The old-style chloroform and ether masks had a mechanism for continuous drops of the substance to fall onto the mask to keep the patient asleep. Unsurprisingly, it also tended to put the anaesthetist to sleep as he leaned over the patient too....

So why would anyone use chloroform or even ether - if you could get it - when a swift uppercut will do the same job and last much longer in most cases?

No need to get fancy, when simple will do...!

 

[Makara]

Just for the chloroform theorists - it is hard to get, and the main problem is that it doesn't behave like you see in those old movies and TV series.

It actually takes a minute or two to work (one reason why it is not used in anaesthetics and hasn't been for many decades), and it also has a short action - as soon as you remove the chloroform, people wake up very quickly.

That's why ether took over from chloroform, before intravenous anaesthesia became the standard method. And even ether had a very short action. The old-style chloroform and ether masks had a mechanism for continuous drops of the substance to fall onto the mask to keep the patient asleep. Unsurprisingly, it also tended to put the anaesthetist to sleep as he leaned over the patient too....

So why would anyone use chloroform or even ether - if you could get it - when a swift uppercut will do the same job and last much longer in most cases?

No need to get fancy, when simple will do...!

Sadly I agree Doc. No chloroform or ether. Just a large fist, hard and fast.

MOO.

 

[Berry]

Sadly I agree Doc. No chloroform or ether. Just a large fist, hard and fast.

MOO.

Sadly I 'feel' it is a sharper tool than a fist, and shows a stronger 'action' of dislike vehmently......

 

[Berry]

Vanity thy name is woman

Shakespeare never wrote the line "Vanity, thy name is woman."

Hamlet's line reads, "Frailty, thy name is woman," in relation to his mother's hasty marriage to Claudius after the King's death.

We certainly see 'frailty' in this case of Jill in high heels perhaps TGY??????




http://www.victorianweb.org/painting/dgr/paintings/albin5.html

 

[LeoBear]

I can only think that the alleged killer planned this very carefully. How did he know where to park his car? He had to have stalked this lady for some time. Known her route home. Otherwise how does he work out the logistics of getting her body to the car? There is always the possibility of a witness.

 

[Berry]

There is an eternity to wait for a Commital Mention Jan 18, yet we have read so much and know so much about this lovely Jill and her alledged rape and murder.

The 'off record' presser our Vic Police gave has almost been done to 'tell a lot of the crime' to our journos there at 10.30pm that Thurs 27 Sept evening.

We wonder why it was 'off the record' and we wonder why it was made at this time before Jills grave site was discovered much later...

 

[LeoBear]

There is an eternity to wait for a Commital Mention Jan 18, yet we have read so much and know so much about this lovely Jill and her alledged rape and murder.

The 'off record' presser our Vic Police gave has almost been done to 'tell a lot of the crime' to our journos there at 10.30pm that Thurs 27 Sept evening.

We wonder why it was 'off the record' and we wonder why it was made at this time before Jills grave site was discovered much later...

The reporter who was interviewed on Latelins about this said that the off the record briefing was to his knowledge unprecedented. Makes you wonder ...

 

[GutFeeling!]

If chloroform was used that would have been, in my eyes, humane. The recipe is online and was used in a very well publicized case here last year.

A weapon was used on Jill without a doubt, not to force her to his car - later. The press conference late at night, the comments made by reporters and then deleted and the way the media has behaved after that press conference - I have no doubt in my mind it was a horrific rape/death, and putting someone to sleep, as I said, would be humane.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

The reporter who was interviewed on Latelins about this said that the off the record briefing was to his knowledge unprecedented. Makes you wonder ...

Possibly to get journos onside so they wouldn't go digging for detail of the crime and accused and publish in a critical way.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Re discussion about an attack using chloroform or some other substance, not sure if poster found the incident but if not this is the one referred to, from VicPol Crimestoppers.

http://vic.crimestoppers.com.au/help_solve_crime/unsolved_cases/assault/assault-brunswick-6-may-2012

Assault - Brunswick - 6 May 2012
Reference: CA6256
Crime Stoppers is asking for help to identify a man who attacked a young woman in Brunswick.

The man allegedly grabbed the woman from behind as she walked along Mitchell Street towards Sydney Road in Brunswick at about 9pm on 6 May 2012

The man covered the woman’s mouth and forced her to the ground but she was able to fight him off.

Police believe the man threw kerosene in the woman’s face before he fled.The man is described as about 30 years of age, 175 -180cm tall, and was wearing dark clothes and gloves.

Police are appealing for anyone who has information, or saw a man loitering in the vicinity of the attack, to come forward.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

After Party Shoes by ******* fit in a pouch, which is a convenient size. You can easily fit our shoes in your handbag, office draw & glove box.

Pharmacies sell them where you buy all the foot care products, they are like 'Jiffies', black. Very handy item.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I agree but when I was young I used to wear very high heels to and from work and had about an 800 meter walk to the bus stop and then from the bus stop to work - thought nothing of it

Memories I used to wear them and run up (and down) a double escalator to change platforms at city circle railway station.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Possibly to get journos onside so they wouldn't go digging for detail of the crime and accused and publish in a critical way.

I still feel, in part, that the police were specifically requesting that the media keep quiet about the 'walk around' they were about to take the accused on. They didnt want the public getting wind of the accused showing them around the site and didn't want the media contingent following them. They might have told them they were taking the accused out to the site where he had advised them Jill was buried. They may have provided some of the alleged rape and murder details.

All IMO as really I know nothing :/

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I still feel, in part, that the police were specifically requesting that the media keep quiet about the 'walk around' they were about to take the accused on. They didnt want the public getting wind of the accused showing them around the site and didn't want the media contingent following them. They might have told them they were taking the accused out to the site where he had advised them Jill was buried. They may have provided some of the alleged rape and murder details.

All IMO as really I know nothing :/

Very good point - that would have been shocking enough especially as some were colleagues (to learn definitely of JM's ultimate fate). You KNOW that there would have been a media feeding frenzy at the site in normal circumstances.

 

[macsleuth]

If chloroform was used that would have been, in my eyes, humane. The recipe is online and was used in a very well publicized case here last year.

A weapon was used on Jill without a doubt, not to force her to his car - later. The press conference late at night, the comments made by reporters and then deleted and the way the media has behaved after that press conference - I have no doubt in my mind it was a horrific rape/death, and putting someone to sleep, as I said, would be humane.

My thought wasn't that Chloroform was used to murder but to disable JM without a struggle.

The actual murder in my mind was far more brutal and I concur with the subsequent posts that this is why the "off the record" briefing occurred. I wonder if that was done as a "compromise" so that the media stayed away from the recovery of the body from the "grave" site. This in itself could provide some insight into what was meant by "horrific" murder.

In past cases i'm pretty sure that there was coverage of this event but not so in this case as far as i am aware.

 

[LeoBear]

Very good point - that would have been shocking enough especially as some were colleagues (to learn definitely of JM's ultimate fate). You KNOW that there would have been a media feeding frenzy at the site in normal circumstances.

A couple of things. People emotionally invested in the case should not be on the job. Period. It stops them from doing their job. Second, I doubt that what happened to Jill was worst than what happened in the.case of Anita Cobby, the bodies in the Barrel or Claremont. Assuming this us the case then I am wondering about the purpose of the briefing.

 

[GutFeeling!]

My thought wasn't that Chloroform was used to murder but to disable JM without a struggle.

The actual murder in my mind was far more brutal and I concur with the subsequent posts that this is why the "off the record" briefing occurred. I wonder if that was done as a "compromise" so that the media stayed away from the recovery of the body from the "grave" site. This in itself could provide some insight into what was meant by "horrific" murder.

In past cases i'm pretty sure that there was coverage of this event but not so in this case as far as i am aware.

The media were at the gravesite, we saw photos of the blue tarp. There were detailed descriptions of the coroners car coming (the white unmarked van) - media were there for sure.

the media really worked well with Police, I am not sure it was a compromise or anything - just a case of "this is what we have" - it could only be what they had been told because they had no body at the time of the Press release.

 

[GutFeeling!]

A couple of things. People emotionally invested in the case should not be on the job. Period. It stops them from doing their job. Second, I doubt that what happened to Jill was worst than what happened in the.case of Anita Cobby, the bodies in the Harrell or Claremont. Assuming this us the case then I am wondering about the purpose of the briefing.

BBM: That is a big call saying that it couldn't have been worse. How would you know? Define what could be worse? (no don't please) I think comparing cases is like comparing apples and oranges in any case.

I am not sure many if any of the ABC reporters that covered this were emotionally invested.

 

[they'll get you]

Does abduction mean moved when alive? Charges of rape & murder, why not abduction? Jill must have been killed in that lane way then removed.
Allioop may know?

OT & No association intended mods!
Very very interesting reading on Claremont murders Perth. Shows CCTV footage of suspected killer lurking around women waiting for cabs outside bars & his habits. Very creepy!