Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #15 *Arrest*

[sosocurious]

When I think of Baden Clay's trial ... three top criminal lawyers involved ... Baden Clay still went down for the murder of Allison.
His lies were his downfall. Borce's lies will be his downfall. They will find the lying is inconsistent with manslaughter. imo


BBM

I still wonder what the outcome would have been if GBC had not taken the stand.

I don't fink Borce will be taking the stand ... come hell or high water.
imo

 

[Amalgam]

That is exactly what I was just wondering, after reading Amalgam's excellent post and descriptions of choking and smothering. I know that we got an inkling from a previous poster, now deleted, that rumoured that the police said this was a planned murder.

Makes me wonder what other Google searches may have been found on that iPad. Perhaps information similar to what is contained in Amalgam's post?

Amalgam, in any of these methods that you have mentioned, is there a possibility for blood spillage from the body? Even without any other damage to Karen or her murderer?
In your opinion, of course.

.

In my opinion, spillage of blood is very unlikely with a vascular technique, except maybe the victim managing to scratch the aggressor.

Likewise, in my opinion, there's slightly more chance of minor spillage of blood from a strangulation/smothering which blocks breathing. There would be enough time for somebody to put up quite a struggle to save their life & minor abrasions could occur.

A complicating factor is one could render somebody unconscious with a concussive blow to the head to prevent them struggling & then strangle them.

If you know how to knock a person out, it can be done such that it'd leave at most a small bruise, and being a soft tissue injury, a bruise would be undetectable on Karen's remains given the level of decomposition.

I offer the above information because if was requested, but from my point of view we have too little hard information available to make speculation over these details useful.

edut : fixed some terrible typos

 

[Amalgam]

I agree.

However, given Borce's deep seated need to have his say sometimes (eg 'the finances are just rosy!', perhaps he will insist upon taking the stand. I REALLY hope he does, but I'm sure it would be against legal advice!

 

[Amalgam]

That is exactly what I was just wondering, after reading Amalgam's excellent post and descriptions of choking and smothering. I know that we got an inkling from a previous poster, now deleted, that rumoured that the police said this was a planned murder.

Makes me wonder what other Google searches may have been found on that iPad. Perhaps information similar to what is contained in Amalgam's post?

Amalgam, in any of these methods that you have mentioned, is there a possibility for blood spillage from the body? Even without any other damage to Karen or her murderer?
In your opinion, of course.

.

rbbm

In regards to the iPad searches, I've always felt (without thinking about it consciously, which is silly) that they happened after Karen was murdered. That said, there's no reason to assume they all happened at the same time & perhaps there were iPad searches done prior to the murder to facilitate it.

Looking at the known information on the iPad searches with a view to when they happened, I feel that at least some of them happened after the murder, specifically those along the lines of "how police track mobile phones" and/or "how to stop police tracking of mobile phones".

These messages reek of "oh crap, I moved the body with her phone on it & took my own phone with me until it went flat/I turned it off". Surely if Borce had thought about let alone researched mobile phone evidence in advance, he would have made sure his and Karen's phones told a very different story to the one we know?

So in my mind, at a minimum, the searches regarding phones happened after Karen was killed & disposed of.

IF the searches regarding blood traces were also post mortem, then in my mind that's a good indication that blood was spilled when she died. This could point towards a cause of death (blunt trauma?) that will have left durable evidence that would've been found on Karen's remains.

 

[Bohemian]

rbbm

In regards to the iPad searches, I've always felt (without thinking about it consciously, which is silly) that they happened after Karen was murdered. That said, there's no reason to assume they all happened at the same time & perhaps there were iPad searches done prior to the murder to facilitate it.

Looking at the known information on the iPad searches with a view to when they happened, I feel that at least some of them happened after the murder, specifically those along the lines of "how police track mobile phones" and/or "how to stop police tracking of mobile phones".

These messages reek of "oh crap, I moved the body with her phone on it & took my own phone with me until it went flat/I turned it off". Surely if Borce had thought about let alone researched mobile phone evidence in advance, he would have made sure his and Karen's phones told a very different story to the one we know?

So in my mind, at a minimum, the searches regarding phones happened after Karen was killed & disposed of.

IF the searches regarding blood traces were also post mortem, then in my mind that's a good indication that blood was spilled when she died. This could point towards a cause of death (blunt trauma?) that will have left durable evidence that would've been found on Karen's remains.

A reason, perhaps, for the (highly speculative) application of CaO.

 

[SouthAussie]

rbbm

In regards to the iPad searches, I've always felt (without thinking about it consciously, which is silly) that they happened after Karen was murdered. That said, there's no reason to assume they all happened at the same time & perhaps there were iPad searches done prior to the murder to facilitate it.

Looking at the known information on the iPad searches with a view to when they happened, I feel that at least some of them happened after the murder, specifically those along the lines of "how police track mobile phones" and/or "how to stop police tracking of mobile phones".

These messages reek of "oh crap, I moved the body with her phone on it & took my own phone with me until it went flat/I turned it off". Surely if Borce had thought about let alone researched mobile phone evidence in advance, he would have made sure his and Karen's phones told a very different story to the one we know?

So in my mind, at a minimum, the searches regarding phones happened after Karen was killed & disposed of.

IF the searches regarding blood traces were also post mortem, then in my mind that's a good indication that blood was spilled when she died. This could point towards a cause of death (blunt trauma?) that will have left durable evidence that would've been found on Karen's remains.

Yes, I tend to agree.

I was reading today about the potential blunt force trauma (inadmissable) in Allison Baden Clay's murder.
Perhaps if Karen had a chipped tooth injury, like Allison, or skull trauma, or other non-decomposed signs of injury, a method of death has been able to be determined.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/na...gns-of-blunt-force-trauma-20140716-ztr66.html

 

[Amalgam]

A reason, perhaps, for the (highly speculative) application of CaO.

Perhaps. I certainly hope so. Shallow and incomplete research, or relying on "common knowledge" (that happens to be wrong) may have lead to the belief that CaO (quicklime) hastens the decay of human remains, destroying evidence.

In reality, the opposite is true, the quicklime dehydrates and can effectively mummify a corpse, which would result in the remains being preserved far better than they would have without the quicklime.

 

[Bohemian]

Perhaps. I certainly hope so. Shallow and incomplete research, or relying on "common knowledge" (that happens to be wrong) may have lead to the belief that CaO (quicklime) hastens the decay of human remains, destroying evidence.

In reality, the opposite is true, the quicklime dehydrates and can effectively mummify a corpse, which would result in the remains being preserved far better than they would have without the quicklime.

The only problem I have with the quicklime being associated with Karen’s clandestine burial is that the bags were left there. Surely the perpetrator(s) wouldn’t leave potential fingerprint evidence behind?

 

[SouthAussie]

The only problem I have with the quicklime being associated with Karen’s clandestine burial is that the bags were left there. Surely the perpetrator(s) wouldn’t leave potential fingerprint evidence behind?

Yes, that seems strange to me, too. Leaving the bags behind.

Those bags are either unassociated with this crime, or they were left behind because the perpetrator was startled into a quick departure by others, or he was simply frazzled and not thinking right.
(And that may be why Vasko decided to go and keep having a look around in case anything else was - or because something was - left at/near that site. Something he wanted to find before anyone else did.)

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, that seems strange to me, too. Leaving the bags behind.

Those bags are either unassociated with this crime, or they were left behind because the perpetrator was startled into a quick departure by others, or he was simply frazzled and not thinking right.
(And that may be why Vasko decided to go and keep having a look around in case anything else was - or because something was - left at/near that site. Something he wanted to find before anyone else did.)

I read all of Karen’s threads during the past couple of days and I noticed the posts about the witness(es?) who reported seeing two men with a white van bogged in the mud near Karen’s burial site. I wonder if the bags were collected as potential evidence? Although, if they were bags of aglime or dolomitic lime rather than quicklime, they are more likely to be associated with a clandestine ‘garden’, rather than a burial.

I’ll have to trawl back through the threads tomorrow and see if I can find the photo(s).

 

[Bohemian]

Oh, I see. They were reported before Karen!s remains were found:

‘Police were also called last year to investigate suspicious activity in the area where her body was later found, according to the Herald Sun.

Dean, a Macedon resident, told authorities he saw two men matching Borce and Vasko's description in a small truck on Salisbury Road, about 200m from where the mother was found, in July last year.

The local also said he saw bags of concrete and lime.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4252554/Karen-Ristevski-s-brother-law-linked-property.html

What the? Was someone building a freaking tomb out there?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes. Look up Phillip Hughs the cricketer.
RIP.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Apropos: BR has been a cricketer and maybe he still owned (now past-tense) memorabilia like a cricket bat (reminds me of Oscar P.) ......

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I read all of Karen’s threads during the past couple of days and I noticed the posts about the witness(es?) who reported seeing two men with a white van bogged in the mud near Karen’s burial site. I wonder if the bags were collected as potential evidence? Although, if they were bags of aglime or dolomitic lime rather than quicklime, they are more likely to be associated with a clandestine ‘garden’, rather than a burial.

I’ll have to trawl back through the threads tomorrow and see if I can find the photo(s).

I find only the Fertilizer bottles in cardboard box. Maybe the image of the bags had to disappear?

-.-.-.-
http://educationpingler.blogspot.de/2017/02/mystery-around-grisly-discovery-of.html

"I thought it was rather strange ... you'd go down there in a 4WD, you wouldn't go down there in a car and you certainly wouldn't go down in a truck.
"I had a conversation with one of them. (He) had that half-shaved, goatee sort of look."
Dean said he wondered if his sighting was connected to Ms Ristevski's case and contacted Crime Stoppers in August, two months after the Melbourne mother disappeared.
"I was absolutely convinced that what I saw was unusual and could be related to Karen Ristevski," Dean said.
He also said he saw bags of concrete and lime. However, there is no evidence that Borce or Vasko Ristevski were involved in Karen's death.

 

[matey]

What has caused Ant to finally break his silence yesterday about BR being arrested and making threats that if BR doesn't fess up, he will cause trouble for him in jail?

When was Ant due to be released from hospital and what was the reason for him being in hospital?

 

[sosocurious]

Yes, that seems strange to me, too. Leaving the bags behind.

Those bags are either unassociated with this crime, or they were left behind because the perpetrator was startled into a quick departure by others, or he was simply frazzled and not thinking right.
(And that may be why Vasko decided to go and keep having a look around in case anything else was - or because something was - left at/near that site. Something he wanted to find before anyone else did.)

Were empty bags of concrete and lime left behind in the bush? Or did Dean see them in/near the bogged truck?
Full or used?

He also said he saw bags of concrete and lime. However, there is no evidence that Borce or Vasko Ristevski were involved in Karen’s death.
The Herald Sun reported news photographer Jay Town was in the bush in July, a month after the mother went missing, when he stumbled across bottles of industrial strength fertiliser. He has spoken to detectives.

http://www.news.com.au/news/mystery...t/news-story/f88756de58fb638dab11ce6f9106997f

 

[they'll get you]

Can anyone find where police said they had enough evidence since June?
Dammit can’t find it. BUT....

It was in June when they first saw the Merc footage up at Diggers.
So from there they asked for the same owners to come forward who drove that area and there were none.
I think the cops tested the dirt and vegetation samples on the car and matched them on the re-runs.
I’m thinking that’s where they got enough evidence to convict?

I can’t wait to find out what evidence made them pounce.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[they'll get you]

Testing results of the dirt & vegetation might have taken this amount of time.
Also the computer info from Merc. Germany.
What else have they got? CCTV from that golf course?
Witnesses? What was the police presence close by at that cul-de-sac.

Or did Sarah rat?

Who ratted and broke the ‘Macadonian Cone of Silence’?
VR, CR, Mrs VR or the whole lot of ‘em were bugged.
I doubt Ant knows much, haha would YOU confide in him?? Nup!

I can’t wait!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sosocurious]

Can anyone find where police said they had enough evidence since June?
Dammit can’t find it. BUT....

It was in June when they first saw the Merc footage up at Diggers.
So from there they asked for the same owners to come forward who drove that area and there were none.
I think the cops tested the dirt and vegetation samples on the car and matched them on the re-runs.
I’m thinking that’s where they got enough evidence to convict?

I can’t wait to find out what evidence made them pounce.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Can't find June being stated but the second link refers a lot to June

It is understood there was no dramatic breakthrough, no “gotcha’’ moment that caused Mr Ristevksi to be taken into custody. Rather, having sent all the evidence they’d gathered to the Office of Public Prosecutions, police were told they had enough to go to trial.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/c51f74b2b9e33169b89f1a886aff0db4
Borce Ristevski charged with murder of wife Karen


It is understood police were advised at least a month ago there was sufficient evidence to charge.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...death-of-karen-ristevski-20171212-h03kmb.html

 

[matey]

Was it Sarah who ratted, followed closely by first overseas holiday in "June" and on her return, she has been living and still is living with friends as stated by one of our sleuths a few pages back who knows the family?

 

[SouthAussie]

Was it Sarah who ratted, followed closely by first overseas holiday in "June" and on her return, she has been living and still is living with friends as stated by one of our sleuths a few pages back who knows the family?

I think the member said she is staying with nearby family, matey.
In which case, Sarah has probably continued to say nothing. imo

Though I had hoped that she had been visited by police while overseas and away from daddy, and had helped out with a pointer or two.

.