Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #16 *Arrest*

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I’ve been fascinated by the following quote & initially assumed it was a case of bad wording. Then I saw it in multiple articles from different media sources, yet some said the same thing with slightly different wording. Perhaps it was a case of poor/inaccurate reporting, but after further thought, perhaps it isn’t.

Here is the quote : ‘Mr Fisher said the investigation of communications data concluded "the deceased and her mobile telephone were in the car the accused was driving".’

It can be found here : Karen Ristevski's accused killer husband made up facts to cover tracks, court hears

The part I found fascinating is that investigation of the communications data concluded that ‘the deceased and her mobile’ were in the car the accused was driving.

How can the data conclude that Karen was with her phone?

After much thought as to what particular phone sensors might be able to distinguish that, and also send their data out of the handset, I came up with nothing.

Then I realised that some devices people carry do interface with their phone & the data is sometimes broadcast out of the phone as part of the device’s app - specifically fitness devices like the Fitbit.

These devices use sensors to detect steps taken(by vibration), stairs climbed(with an altimeter), and more (sometimes even including the user’s pulse) and the device sends this data by Bluetooth to the user’s mobile phone. An app on the mobile phone then sends this data to a server which interfaces with a fitness website etc.

The broadcast of this data to server can be disabled, but it is enabled by default & disabling it results in some loss of device functionality.

If Karen was wearing such a device, it would send data to her her mobile phone, which would in turn regularly transmit some data to a server.

If Karen’s mobile phone is taken for a drive, but Karen (&and the device) don’t come along for the ride, her phone no longer receives a Bluetooth signal from the device & it stops sending data to the server.

If Karen’s mobile phone is taken for a drive, and her phone continues to send data from the device to the server, then Karen’s phone is within Bluetooth range (close proximity) of the device for the duration of that drive.

In the latter situation, given Borce’s phone was tracked along the same path with Karen’s phone(until he turned it off), we either believe that Borce drove with her body(still wearing Fitbit or similar) and phone in the car, or else we believe that after Karen went for a walk to clear her head, Borce drove Karen’s car & for some odd reason took both her phone & her Fitbit along for the ride...

For information about what these devices do & their phone apps then broadcast, check out How it works: We explain how your fitness tracker measures your daily steps or for further details, Google for ‘what data do fitness apps send’ sans quotes.

There have been murder convictions secured in the past where key parts of the evidence came from these devices.
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Exactly. if Karen was wearing a Fitbit and it was constantly syncing with her phone they would know if Karen was with her phone and whereabouts if location services were switched on and they would also know what time tracking of her heart rate ceased.
 
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Exactly. if Karen was wearing a Fitbit and it was constantly syncing with her phone they would know if Karen was with her phone and whereabouts if location services were switched on and they would also know what time tracking of her heart rate ceased.

Exactly...

I suspect the device wasn’t one that could detect heart rate/pulse, or else they may have been more precise regarding her time of death (instead they gave a sizeable window of time within which they allege Borce killed or incapacitated her).

It is also possible that such devices that CAN detect pulse will fail to do so if the pulse becomes too weak, and thus be unable to distinguish reliably between no pulse (dead) and a weak pulse. If this was the case then there may be evidence forthcoming regarding when her pulse became undetectable, but the vagueness of evidence thus far regarding time of death/being incapacitated makes me lean towards thinking pulse readings were either unavailable (device doesn’t detect pulse - not all do) or totally unreliable.

The police claim that communications data was interpreted to show that both Karen’s body & her phone were in the car with Borce do suggest that a Fitbit or similar device was active.
 
Was the midweek dinner at his mum’s a regular event or
1) was the dinner arranged while the carpet dried or the house was being cleaned or to get Sarah out of the house because it smelled of products or bleach?
2) was the dinner arranged to bide more time so Sarah wouldn’t find Karen missing?
3) was the dinner so that BR could connect with Sarah for closeness on his side of the family.
4) he knew Karen would not be home to cook.

What was he finking? The clock was ticking. Someone would miss Karen.
I can image, he had a feeling, the meal would clump in his mouth.
Apart from that, I guess 1, 2.
 
WT? - he is such a big fibber. He said in that media appeal he had kept calling Karen's phone and it went to messages.
Silly me, for thinking there may have been one or two calls within the first 24 hours. :D
So he did not make one attempt to call or text Karen's phone before sitting down to dinner with the parents? o_O

Dinner at the parents??? Was it just SR and BR or were other family also in attendance.

When was that person seen coming out the bush with a shovel at night time?
Maybe, other family - whoever - was at Avondale Heights, cleaning certain stains ...? After all, after dinner BS had to return to his home, with Sarah, who allegedly didn't know something except from a fight in the morning.
 
I thought he said he drove her car to fix a fault with the fuel gauge.

I don't recall hearing about needing to refuel.

I recall this too. Seems like another change in the story.
I also find it odd that SR wasn't aware of anything until the following day. When was it that she sent the message about anyone seeing her mum?
If AR is a witness to the murder, why was he there? Was this all premeditated and BR was going to pay him off with the money that was about to become his? AR seems like he has been in dire straits for a while now.
Which also brings me to the statement made by Vasko. Maybe she went overseas? Still an odd statement to this day and I think he knows more. Time will tell.

It's all so suspicious.

I'm feeling for Sarah and the rest of the family as this continues to play out.
 
I thought he said he drove her car to fix a fault with the fuel gauge.

I don't recall hearing about needing to refuel.
Same here, TootsieFootsie! We are remembering correctly too because there was even an interview with a mechanic re faulty fuel gauge! (Even AR sided with BR when questioned about the faulty fuel gauge and we all know how AR felt and still feels about BR). I cannot recall reading about the need to refuel at all!

So many articles, so many different stories/versions coming out, am thinking, like others, could just be a case of bad reporting *sighs*

Anyway, I'm here with bells on...bring on DAY 2 and SR!! :D
 
$850 cash.
Where did it come from? At a rough guesstimate, that's about half the monthly minimum repayment on a credit card with $82, 000 debt.

As BR clearly isn't the greatest financial planner, I can't see him handing over cash to pay the cc.

The $850 can't have been from the shop float/takings as KR would have had it - yet BR says he gave it to her. When did he give it to her? During an argument or was it 'placed' with her later?

If he did have a spare $850, (good uber week or lucky strike at the casino) why didn't he pop down to the bank, as he says he was home doing the book-keeping?
Seems an unusual way to pay your cc, rather than doing a simple online funds transfer.
 
The recereation of the Merc driving was for timing.



The trip, he told police, lasted 80 minutes.

But Mr Fisher said police believe Mr Ristevski was away from home for two hours and 19 minutes and that he went as far as the park to dump his wife's body.


A recreation of the route, based on CCTV sightings of the car and where phone towers pinged the couple's phones, was only a couple of minutes out, allowing for someone to spend 20 minutes at the park to hide a body.

Ristevski withheld evidence he drove wife's car on the day she vanished: court
 
I'm glad to hear Karen was vocal and not a wilting violet. She spoke her feelings.
If she displayed her feelings to a customer then hopefully she spoke up to her friends about what was happening. I really hope so.


Witness Sarah Culhane on Monday told the court she was a customer at Bella Bleu and that during the first half of June 2016 she overheard Ms Ristevski in an angry phone conversation.

She said afterwards Ms Ristevski told her "my husband pisses me off".

Mr Fisher said Mr Ristevski told police he and his wife argued and disagreed over small things, but no more than any other couple.

Ristevski withheld evidence he drove wife's car on the day she vanished: court
 
IF at all, he won't have told Sarah the truth about money and her mother, but all glossed over in his (special) sense and to the detriment of her mother Karen. No wonder, if Sarah had some issues with Karen herself perhaps.

Sarah worked in the business or least after Karen died.

I was reared in a family business and married life has involved a family business. Trust me, you live and breath the business, the baby, the bread and butter. The children hear, the children know and are involved.
It can be feast or famine.
 
Exactly...

I suspect the device wasn’t one that could detect heart rate/pulse, or else they may have been more precise regarding her time of death (instead they gave a sizeable window of time within which they allege Borce killed or incapacitated her).

It is also possible that such devices that CAN detect pulse will fail to do so if the pulse becomes too weak, and thus be unable to distinguish reliably between no pulse (dead) and a weak pulse. If this was the case then there may be evidence forthcoming regarding when her pulse became undetectable, but the vagueness of evidence thus far regarding time of death/being incapacitated makes me lean towards thinking pulse readings were either unavailable (device doesn’t detect pulse - not all do) or totally unreliable.

The police claim that communications data was interpreted to show that both Karen’s body & her phone were in the car with Borce do suggest that a Fitbit or similar device was active.


Would an old 2004 Merc have Bluetooth connectivity . Would that show up?
I imagine, if so, his would connect as well if he regularly drove it.

Apparently 2003-2009 does.
 
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Bluetooth was not a part of the Mercedes Telephone system until 2006. I am a car nut / dad is a car nut (specifically Mercedes).

Thanks for that Moose but would an aftermarket adapter do the same job?
I had a 2003 Prado Grande which I had fitted with an aftermarket bluetooth phone thiny device or maybe the Ristevskis were happy with just the phone's ear pieces.
 
Ristevski daughter due in murder hearing

The daughter of accused wife-killer Borce Ristevski is scheduled to testify at a high-profile Melbourne court hearing over the alleged murder of her mother, Karen Ristevski.

Sarah Ristevski was aged 21 when her mother was allegedly murdered at the family's Avondale Heights home in Melbourne's west in June 2016

Ristevski daughter due in murder hearing - 9News
 
It’s alleged he then drove his wife’s black Mercedes-Benz coupe to Macedon Regional Park to dispose of her body, killing the signal on his mobile phone along the way.

It was alleged he then went out Uber driving before having dinner at his parents.

Mr Ristevski on Monday faced Melbourne Magistrates Court for the opening of a two-week hearing that will determine if there is enough evidence to stand trial for murder

What Ristevski did on day wife died
 
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