Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #17 *Arrest*

[they'll get you]

Sometimes the best clues are not in what we see, hear or read, rather what is left out, not said and in actions we don't expect that hold the greater clues.

Why then is SR NOT holding BR accountable, in any manner, for her mother's killing and inhumane disposing of her body under logs, suffering animal degradation (with all due respect to Karen)?

All IMHO.

It is truly disgusting Edgarb.
We all respect Karen that’s why we are here.

I sincerely hope Karen’s family are looking into the legalities of appeal IF fair justice isn’t handed down.
The money you are saving on SR’s 1st class tickets you should have a small fortune saved now.

Seriously, remember Allison’s family and friends how they just NEVER gave up. GBC was still wheeling and dealing from his cell. I recon BR would pull the same schit in a heartbeat.

 

[they'll get you]

Ms Gray said Ristevski "bullied" his daughter into defending him, manipulating and lying for more than two years.
"It was very uncomfortable to watch as he manipulated his family," Ms Gray told the court.
"He and his vicious lies ... were agonising."

A statement read to the court on Wednesday by Stephen Williams, Ms Ristevski's younger brother, said when he caught up with Ristevski, he "only spoke about himself".

Aunt Marguerite Knight said she had "total belief" Ms Ristevski would never leave her family willingly.
"Never once did you say you missed Karen. It was always about you," she said in comments aimed at Ristevski.

Daughter provides 'glowing reference' for wife-killer Borce Ristevski

Sarah spent 7,665 days with her father, her whole life, she can't easily shake off that kind of influence, even more so because of the murder of her mother, she's a victim of Borce Ristevski. He's a powerfully manipulative person, listen to those who knew him best, he'd make Sarah feel bad for not standing by him, she wouldn't be able to bear it. Not everyone understands that kind of power, think yourself lucky.
Sarah's living this reality, her 'good for nothing' father did this, she made a fool out of herself for her father, how proud she makes him, she won't desert him, the control he has is incredible, what life must have been like behind close doors for poor Karen? Was there ever really a safe way out?

All these vicious rumours just play into Borce's hands, he's the 'self sacrificing' victim of 'injustice'?!

Meanwhile.....living the good life

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Meanwhile.....living the good life

View attachment 178410

and that proves what, tgy?

Sarah is a product of her family, the letter reveals dysfunction within and it runs deep. Karen was obviously fed up, Sarah was kept childlike which is not unusual with a father like Borce. He killed Karen, the police didn't charge him for the hell of it!
Sarah's 'impact' statement was pitiful and disappointing but when you look at the big picture, including AR, is it really a surprise? Borce should be taking all the heat, he's the murderer, he's the selfish, narcissistic *advertiser censored*, who's always looked out for himself. Karen woke up too late and Borce wasn't having any of it. Maybe, Sarah might wake up one day too!

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

Perhaps I misremember but I thought AR had plenty of negative words against SR up until a certain point when we thought she had a payout from the estate.

I don't recall AR having *plenty* of negative words against SR. However, I do recall *one* comment in particular where he said "I'm ONTO you Sarah".

 

[they'll get you]

I know a couple who lost their child during a tragic accident and before the child was recovered the reporter’s were hounding them for the story, within days they were on an overseas flight to get away.
But for the Grace of God go I.

 

[Edgarb]

and that proves what, tgy?

Sarah is a product of her family, the letter reveals dysfunction within and it runs deep. Karen was obviously fed up, Sarah was kept childlike which is not unusual with a father like Borce. He killed Karen, the police didn't charge him for the hell of it!
Sarah's 'impact' statement was pitiful and disappointing but when you look at the big picture, including AR, is it really a surprise? Borce should be taking all the heat, he's the murderer, he's the selfish, narcissistic *advertiser censored*, who's always looked out for himself. Karen woke up too late and Borce wasn't having any of it. Maybe, Sarah might wake up one day too!

PS, everyone's opinions are based on the evidence available which is highly circumstantial. We don't know when, how, who or why Karen was killed.

Proof:
-We know Karen was reported missing to Police on June 30, 2016.
-We know a press conference was held on July 14, 2016. We know what BR & SR & Patricia Gray said and did. We know SR was holding a photo of Karen.
-We have video evidence and BR's admission he was driving Karen's Mercedes and both their mobile phone records and statuses.
-We know there were Google searches on a shared ipad researching location tracking history between July 1 and July 3, 2016.
-We know BR changed his version of what took place on June 29, 2016 many times.
-We know BR & SR stopped talking to Police. Dates unknown.
-We know a conversation was recorded by Police on December 21, 2016 between BR & SR where SR was questioning BR's whereabouts on the day Karen reportedly went missing.
-We know Karen's body was located at Mount Macedon Regional Park on 20 February, 2017. We know when found her body was buried under a log, and the status of her body when found.
-We know Karen's funeral occurred on March 6, 2017. We know BR was a pall bearer and SR held a photo of Karen.
-We know VR was filmed at Mount Macedon Regional Park around June 17, 2017.
-We know a conversation was recorded by Police where BR informed his nephew that SR's boyfriend was organising new SIM cards for him as he knew he was being tapped. Date unknown.
-We know BR changed his phone number on several occasions.
-We know several conversations were recorded by Police where BR informed a friend he went to Lalor on June 29, 2016. He requested the friend to not repeat this information to Police. Dates unknown.
-We know BR was arrested and charged with murder on December 13, 2017.
-We know BR was committed to stand Trial for Murder on August 2, 2018.
-We know BR requested a plea deal for manslaughter in September, 2018. This was declined by the Prosecution due to BR failing to provide details of the offence.
-We know BR confessed to the Manslaughter of his wife.
-We know SR declined to submit a Victim Impact Statement but chose to submit a Character Reference for her father.

The remaining facts come from sworn witness statements provided to Police on the assumption they are true and correct. We know sometimes this is not always the case and dependant on credibility.

I am contending that from the above facts, it can be proven BR lied to Police on more than one occasion, was party to the disposal of Karen's body and changed his phone number to avoid Police intercepts.

The rest is connecting the dots to the most likely scenario. Without the when, how, who or why, it is open to many interpretations IMO. We all come from different viewpoints with different life experiences, but what we have in common is that we are here seeking the truth and Justice for Karen.

All IMHO.

 

[SouthAussie]

It is really irksome that Borce does not have to provide details of his crime in exchange for the manslaughter plea.

I have been trolling and trolling the Vic laws trying to see if this is a requirement when submitting a guilty plea. I know that some jurisdictions require this, but I am not able to find any such requirement in the Vic laws I have looked at.

 

[they'll get you]

It is really irksome that Borce does not have to provide details of his crime in exchange for the manslaughter plea.

I have been trolling and trolling the Vic laws trying to see if this is a requirement when submitting a guilty plea. I know that some jurisdictions require this, but I am not able to find any such requirement in the Vic laws I have looked at.

southAussie what irks me is, allegedly because of the lack of evidence, the charge of murder was dropped to manslaughter and BR jumped at it.

Maybe I’m a gambler but I believe there was enough evidence and a good chance of him going down in court.
I can’t find the link but it was said by some ‘egg head’ that cctv showed quite clearly BR driving Karen’s vehicle.

What a wonderful day if it was a trick to get him to admit he had a hand in it then wooshkaa, thanx pizzaschit we gotcha.

 

[they'll get you]

It is really irksome that Borce does not have to provide details of his crime in exchange for the manslaughter plea.

I have been trolling and trolling the Vic laws trying to see if this is a requirement when submitting a guilty plea. I know that some jurisdictions require this, but I am not able to find any such requirement in the Vic laws I have looked at.

One of us from Victoria could call a local lawyer for some free advice on that.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

PS, everyone's opinions are based on the evidence available which is highly circumstantial. We don't know when, how, who or why Karen was killed.

Proof:
-We know Karen was reported missing to Police on June 30, 2016.
-We know a press conference was held on July 14, 2016. We know what BR & SR & Patricia Gray said and did. We know SR was holding a photo of Karen.
-We have video evidence and BR's admission he was driving Karen's Mercedes and both their mobile phone records and statuses.
-We know there were Google searches on a shared ipad researching location tracking history between July 1 and July 3, 2016.
-We know BR changed his version of what took place on June 29, 2016 many times.
-We know BR & SR stopped talking to Police. Dates unknown.
-We know a conversation was recorded by Police on December 21, 2016 between BR & SR where SR was questioning BR's whereabouts on the day Karen reportedly went missing.
-We know Karen's body was located at Mount Macedon Regional Park on 20 February, 2017. We know when found her body was buried under a log, and the status of her body when found.
-We know Karen's funeral occurred on March 6, 2017. We know BR was a pall bearer and SR held a photo of Karen.
-We know VR was filmed at Mount Macedon Regional Park around June 17, 2017.
-We know a conversation was recorded by Police where BR informed his nephew that SR's boyfriend was organising new SIM cards for him as he knew he was being tapped. Date unknown.
-We know BR changed his phone number on several occasions.
-We know several conversations were recorded by Police where BR informed a friend he went to Lalor on June 29, 2016. He requested the friend to not repeat this information to Police. Dates unknown.
-We know BR was arrested and charged with murder on December 13, 2017.
-We know BR was committed to stand Trial for Murder on August 2, 2018.
-We know BR requested a plea deal for manslaughter in September, 2018. This was declined by the Prosecution due to BR failing to provide details of the offence.
-We know BR confessed to the Manslaughter of his wife.
-We know SR declined to submit a Victim Impact Statement but chose to submit a Character Reference for her father.

The remaining facts come from sworn witness statements provided to Police on the assumption they are true and correct. We know sometimes this is not always the case and dependant on credibility.

I am contending that from the above facts, it can be proven BR lied to Police on more than one occasion, was party to the disposal of Karen's body and changed his phone number to avoid Police intercepts.

The rest is connecting the dots to the most likely scenario. Without the when, how, who or why, it is open to many interpretations IMO. We all come from different viewpoints with different life experiences, but what we have in common is that we are here seeking the truth and Justice for Karen.

All IMHO.

Sarah was allowed to travel overseas, she was never named as a suspect or person of interest in the murder of her mother. It's rare for a child to kill a parent, those who have are identified as mentally unstable, and/or have a history of substance abuse, and/or criminal history like delinquency/conduct disorder, and/or have exhibited violence of some kind, and/or were physically/sexually/psychologically abused by the murdered parent. Sarah doesn't fit any of those categories. Her behaviour may not be to your liking or mine, but she didn't murder Karen and we're not allowed to vilify the victim, and that's what Sarah is, a victim.

After the ridiculous 'reference' for her father instead of an impact statement, I'm even more convinced Borce is a very manipulative and controlling man. If Sarah thought her father's life was at stake, she'd likely do anything to prevent another loss. She made a spectacle of herself instead of taking the opportunity to express the huge betrayal by him for taking her mother's life, and how much she loved her mum and the enormous impact her death has had on her.


Imo, Borce and Karen fought about finances/ending the relationship/a discovery of Borce's lies that morning and he killed her.
If Borce had murdered Karen at night, why wait until after 10am to dispose of her body? The risk was significantly higher of him being spotted by witnesses driving Karen's car and on cctv (and it was). The most logical thing to do would be to leave in darkness around 5 am and be home well before either were noticed missing. Borce could've told Sarah that Karen left in the middle of the night and was picked up by an unidentified 'friend'.

It's frustrating that the police were unable to get him for murder, he's plead guilty to manslaughter without having to give an account of what happened, not a great result. Borce now won't have his dirty laundry and dealings aired in court, he's got a big ego and wouldn't be able to handle the shame, imo.

I don't believe there was an accident, he either smothered or choked Karen to death while in a rage and acted swiftly to remove her body from the premises. He drove to a place he knew well like most murderers, to discard the body. Borce gambled and got lucky regrettably, Karen wasn't found for 8 long months.

 

[SouthAussie]

southAussie what irks me is, allegedly because of the lack of evidence, the charge of murder was dropped to manslaughter and BR jumped at it.

Maybe I’m a gambler but I believe there was enough evidence and a good chance of him going down in court.
I can’t find the link but it was said by some ‘egg head’ that cctv showed quite clearly BR driving Karen’s vehicle.

What a wonderful day if it was a trick to get him to admit he had a hand in it then wooshkaa, thanx pizzaschit we gotcha.

There is an opinion piece in this article, stating that people who murder their wife and then hide their remains should go down for murder, never manslaughter.
Hiding the remains can leave too much time before discovery for the cause and method of death to be obliterated - for crucial evidence to be destroyed - therefore they should go down for murder, regardless.

(And now they are searching again for Lisa Brown, who disappeared 20 years ago. Another possible murder committed by a partner.)


There’s something fundamentally wrong when Borce Ristevski can kill his wife, hide her body, construct a ridiculous tower of lies and prosecutors can’t, or won’t, take him to trial for murder.
After her body was eventually found, he would be a tearful pallbearer at her funeral. Sound familiar? It should, it’s a dime a dozen kind of tale.

Edmund Ian Riggs was last month convicted by a jury of manslaughter rather than murder, despite burying his wife Patricia’s body in bushland, then digging it up and reburying it in their backyard.

Gerard (Baden-Clay) dumped his wife Allison’s body on a muddy creek bank in April 2012.
By the time Allison was found, 10 days later under a bridge 14 kilometres from home, no-one could say how she died.

What’s the unfortunate message these cases broadcast? The best option if you kill your partner, perhaps in a fit of rage, is to dump the body and let time and nature erase the evidence.

If you are responsible for someone’s death and you hide or otherwise dispose of the body, perhaps this act of interfering with the corpse should automatically elevate the crime to murder.

Deadly dime-a-dozen kind of tale: Why Borce Ristevski should be on trial for murder
NoCookies | The Australian
March 14, 2019

 

[PrimeSuspect]

<modsnip - quoting a deleted post>

Of course, Karen is the victim, and Sarah is her daughter. The police have charged BR and he's plead guilty to manslaughter, which is the injustice here, not Sarah's behaviour.
<modsnip - discussing deleted posts>
He didn't have the decency to spare Karen's life and after the fact, the decency to report to the police what he'd done, the coward! Borce turned everyone's world upside down and Sarah is copping the brunt of it, first it was Karen and now, her daughter! There were those condemning the murdered victim too! smh

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[PrimeSuspect]

There is an opinion piece in this article, stating that people who murder their wife and then hide their remains should go down for murder, never manslaughter.
Hiding the remains can leave too much time before discovery for the cause and method of death to be obliterated - for crucial evidence to be destroyed - therefore they should go down for murder, regardless.

(And now they are searching again for Lisa Brown, who disappeared 20 years ago. Another possible murder committed by a partner.)


There’s something fundamentally wrong when Borce Ristevski can kill his wife, hide her body, construct a ridiculous tower of lies and prosecutors can’t, or won’t, take him to trial for murder.
After her body was eventually found, he would be a tearful pallbearer at her funeral. Sound familiar? It should, it’s a dime a dozen kind of tale.

Edmund Ian Riggs was last month convicted by a jury of manslaughter rather than murder, despite burying his wife Patricia’s body in bushland, then digging it up and reburying it in their backyard.

Gerard (Baden-Clay) dumped his wife Allison’s body on a muddy creek bank in April 2012.
By the time Allison was found, 10 days later under a bridge 14 kilometres from home, no-one could say how she died.

What’s the unfortunate message these cases broadcast? The best option if you kill your partner, perhaps in a fit of rage, is to dump the body and let time and nature erase the evidence.

If you are responsible for someone’s death and you hide or otherwise dispose of the body, perhaps this act of interfering with the corpse should automatically elevate the crime to murder.

Deadly dime-a-dozen kind of tale: Why Borce Ristevski should be on trial for murder
NoCookies | The Australian
March 14, 2019

Thank you, South Aussie for showing where our anger should lie, with a system that allows BR to plead to a manslaughter charge and receive a light sentence! I agree wholeheartedly with the opinion piece, I felt the same about the Double Jeopardy and Provocation Laws.

 

[SouthAussie]

<modsnip - quoting a removed post>

The only daughter of a narcissistic father ... she will spend her lifetime trying to please him, unless she wakes up. imo

Borce has involved Sarah in his shaky business affairs, Sarah has written this pathetic letter of support for him. How many years would we think Borce has spent cultivating Sarah's unwavering support? Just about every year of her life?

I suspect that Sarah has always sided with her dad, despite also loving her mother.

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

I've had several days to go over SR's "letter" to the judge and have come to the conclusion she is speaking the truth, well for the most part anyway. Has nothing to do with BR being a narcissistic father in my opinion. KR was a business/career woman. BR was a stay at home dad. He took care of her (SR) needs because KR was working. I'm sure KR, when not busy working, also did alot for SR, but because BR was the main caregiver, it's only natural she would be closer to BR than she is to KR. I have never believed BR was the violent type and that KR was a victim of domestic abuse. I have been of that opinion from day one and often made comments stating that much in previous posts (way way back). They did appear, to me at least in photo's, a very happy couple/family. KR never striked me as looking/sounding like an abused woman. She looked radiant, happy and oozed confidence...a very successful business woman in her own right. The financial issues BR and KR experienced are quite common for people who own their own business/s. I really do not believe BR killed KR because they were having financial issues and it had gotten out of hand, nor do I believe KR was going to leave BR, sorry, I just don't. I believe whatever happened was an accident and we (the public) will never truly know how that accident occurred. I believe only three people know the truth, unfortunately one is not here to tell her side of the story, the other two have zipped up and thrown away the key. One will be punished and rightfully so. It's a very sad case all around.

PS: If you disagree with the above, (and I know quite a few will lol) that's okay, just know, that it is all MOO and one that I have pretty much had, from day one.

 

[steve richardson]

I believe 100% KR was going to leave BR as soon as SR turned 21 or shortly afterwards. Like parents often do when breaking up they use their children in spite to get back at the other partner. BR would have told SR look what your mother is intending to do to our family which will detroy it. SR knew breakup would impact on the lifestyle that she wished to continue with so sided with BR. Maybe she thought if she was seen by KR to be doing that then she may have thought if I leave I might destroy my current relationship with SR so might be best to ride it out.

 

[SouthAussie]

I believe 100% KR was going to leave BR as soon as SR turned 21 or shortly afterwards. Like parents often do when breaking up they use their children in spite to get back at the other partner. BR would have told SR look what your mother is intending to do to our family which will detroy it. SR knew breakup would impact on the lifestyle that she wished to continue with so sided with BR. Maybe she thought if she was seen by KR to be doing that then she may have thought if I leave I might destroy my current relationship with SR so might be best to ride it out.

Yes, I think Karen was planning to leave. I think that is why Sarah was huffy with Karen for the couple of weeks prior to Karen's murder.

I have pretty much always thought that this was a 'separation murder'. Borce may not have been a violent man within the marriage, but Karen was the family's bread and butter. I think Borce would have been very angry and frustrated that he could not persuade Karen to stay, and he really needed her assets (house/whatever else) and income.

As well, I would have been really unhappy - if I was Karen - if/when I found out that Borce had signed Sarah on as a member of his company ...... I think that Karen was trying to dig herself out and follow her own lead, with Sarah being an adult who could now follow her own lead. I am not sure that Karen would have been happy if she learned that Sarah was being drawn into the financial quagmire.

 

[tmar]

I believe 100% KR was going to leave BR as soon as SR turned 21 or shortly afterwards. Like parents often do when breaking up they use their children in spite to get back at the other partner. BR would have told SR look what your mother is intending to do to our family which will detroy it. SR knew breakup would impact on the lifestyle that she wished to continue with so sided with BR. Maybe she thought if she was seen by KR to be doing that then she may have thought if I leave I might destroy my current relationship with SR so might be best to ride it out.

Can anyone remember, BR and Karen's aunt, checking out properties in St. Kilda, that they found on Karen's laptop?

Why?

 

[SouthAussie]

Ms Ristevski's cousin, Lisa Gray, told police Ms Ristevski said at a wedding in March 2016 she preferred her husband slept on the couch. This, Mr Fisher said, was a sign "all was not completely harmonious in their relationship".

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...is-movements-court-hears-20180726-p4ztsf.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

AR is briefly calling out to BR and KR with the 4letter word.
I don't have to understand ...