Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #5

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Thanks Scottkam. I don't dispute that in some circumstances you can build a case for murder without a body.

This is from a a legal firm's website:

"A complete defence to murder is where the police fail to prove one or more of the elements of the offence.

The elements for murder are:

The victim died;

The act or omission of the accused caused the death of the victim;

The act of the accused was without lawful cause or excuse; and

The act or omission causing death was done by the accused:
with the intention to kill or do grievous bodily harm to some person;​
foreseeing that it was probable that the death of a person would result from the act or omission; or
in an attempt by the accused or some accomplice with him/her to commit, or during or immediately after the commission of by the accused or some accomplice with him/her, a serious indictable offence punishable by imprisonment for life or 25 years​

If we can prevent the police proving one of the elements to murder, you must be acquitted (found not guilty) of the offence of murder."

http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/defences/complete-defences-to-muder

Are we to take it that you consider that all of the elements of murder have been proved against BR, based on what we know of the situation from MSM?

I'm not sure JLZ. I don't know how the reasoning goes here. Without a body one cannot say she has died, but you can convict without a body. I suppose if you murder someone and throw them out to sea, and then you confess; technically, the police do not know the victim died, except for your words, which could be a false confession, and the fact the person no longer lives their lives as they did prior to the claimed event. Karen no longer lives her life after the 29th like she did before then. Without a confession from Borce, i guess we need to read between the lines and come to be convinced that her absence is owing to her death, rather than to escaping.

Borce's suspicious behaviour would also convince some people- myself included- that he was concealing an act which led to the death of Karen. There is one slight caveat here, which is that perhaps the act/omission by Borce was not 'intentional' which is pivotal for murder. That is, it could have been accidental. Further, it could possibly be the case that it was not an act/omission by Borce at all, but by Sarah. i.e. the stair-case accidental fall theory. So Borce would be guilty only of accessory after the fact.

From what i gather it is all about whether you come to be convinced by people's actions that they are acting in ways suggestive of criminality. That is, is Borce's suspicious drive up the Calder- and subsequent forgetfulness to tell the police in his first interview- the act of a man who is concealing murder? I THINK SO!!!!! So i tend to believe that even without Karen's body, we should look to charging him for her murder. Obviously there are many caveats here, like whether he did it intentionally or not, or whether Sarah did it, etc. So it becomes a minefield of loopholes and conditionals. I'm not sure really. I guess this is why they need more evidence, at least more of Borce lying. Sadly, i get the feeling that without some concrete forensic evidence, no amount of lying will see police bring charges. I just think that's a fact. So they need soil samples, phone pings (which are not even solid evidence, as has been stated in comments by specialists in newspapers), CCTV footage, a confession. The confession strike me as odd. As a juror, i wouldn't be too happy to accept Borce's confession, for how do i know he isn't covering for Sarah?

Now i get the reason why Borce hasn't been charged yet.... hehehehee And i didn't even bring in The Rickard and the potential for mischief there.

Is murder satisfied via phone pings and lies about drives to Gisborne? No. The pub vote says YES; the law court says NO.
 
It's the old saying: When there are multiple possible explanations, the simplest one is usually correct. The simplest explanation for a situation is typically the one that looks like ones we've seen before.

The no tears comments irk me

By the second press conference/appeal for information her mum had been gone a long time. SR could have been sleep deprived - all cried out and numb - still in shock or even medicated to help her cope. But why not look the camera? I'd be eye balling that camera lens and pleading with mum to come home or whoever was holding her hostage to please let her go.
 
I must have picked it up from crime shows; it just slipped into my writing. I wasn't consciously saying it. But i don't think a reference to torso necessarily implies dismemberment. They always refer to torsos in tv crime shows. It just seems to be a world generally bandied about. I don't see why people fixated on it.

Just catching up, this is not a tv crime show, its a real life person, someones family and i watch crime shows and cant recall hearing that term used referring to a body.
 
This is a fascinating read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/no-body-murder-cases_b_137791.html

It's happened in states all over America going back to the 1840's when arriving sailors on the schooner Sarah Lavinia could not account for the whereabouts of their first mate. They were convicted of tossing him overboard. And, 'no body' prosecutions have happened ever since -- in courts around the world.

BBM

I did mention throwing a body out to sea.

Attorney Tad DiBiase, who runs the nobodymurdercases.com Web site, has collected nearly 300 examples of U.S. prosecutors who didn't let the fact that there was no body get in the way of filing murder charges. Debaise says he's discovered only one case in which the missing "victim" was later found alive. In 1886 one Mr. Charles Hudspeth was convicted and executed for killing his lover's husband. Sadly, the husband was later discovered alive living in another state.

Would a jury believe Karen has left to begin a new life?

Defense attorneys used to routinely argue to juries that the victim could still be alive. But that played right into the prosecutor's strategy. It opened the door for the state to hammer home how great and reliable a person the victim was. Surely, they would tell the jury, the victim never would have voluntarily left the children, the job, their church, their way of life.

Karen, it was argued, would never have voluntarily left Sarah.

Yet the body is still the single most important piece of direct evidence a murder case can have. Without it there's no time of death, no evidence from the condition of the body or the wound, no crime scene to process. The track record of convictions proves, however, that circumstantial evidence can be just as powerful.

But a funny thing often happens on the way to a 'no body' murder trial, especially if the death penalty is on the table.

That is one option we do not have in Australia- to exert pressure via capital punishment. So the police must resort to releasing phone ping data to the Herald Sun in the hope that, as is most likely the case, Sarah 'has the courage' and offers information against Borce.
 
This is a fascinating read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/no-body-murder-cases_b_137791.html

It's happened in states all over America going back to the 1840's when arriving sailors on the schooner Sarah Lavinia could not account for the whereabouts of their first mate. They were convicted of tossing him overboard. And, 'no body' prosecutions have happened ever since -- in courts around the world.

BBM

I did mention throwing a body out to sea.

Attorney Tad DiBiase, who runs the nobodymurdercases.com Web site, has collected nearly 300 examples of U.S. prosecutors who didn't let the fact that there was no body get in the way of filing murder charges. Debaise says he's discovered only one case in which the missing "victim" was later found alive. In 1886 one Mr. Charles Hudspeth was convicted and executed for killing his lover's husband. Sadly, the husband was later discovered alive living in another state.

Would a jury believe Karen has left to begin a new life?

Defense attorneys used to routinely argue to juries that the victim could still be alive. But that played right into the prosecutor's strategy. It opened the door for the state to hammer home how great and reliable a person the victim was. Surely, they would tell the jury, the victim never would have voluntarily left the children, the job, their church, their way of life.

Karen, it was argued, would never have voluntarily left Sarah.

Yet the body is still the single most important piece of direct evidence a murder case can have. Without it there's no time of death, no evidence from the condition of the body or the wound, no crime scene to process. The track record of convictions proves, however, that circumstantial evidence can be just as powerful.

But a funny thing often happens on the way to a 'no body' murder trial, especially if the death penalty is on the table.

That is one option we do not have in Australia- to exert pressure via capital punishment. So the police must resort to releasing phone ping data to the Herald Sun in the hope that, as is most likely the case, Sarah 'has the courage' and offers information against Borce.

I read somewhere that KR was going to leave as soon as SR turned 21. SR had a birthday party a few weeks to months after the party KR dissapeared.

KR, in this case, would have left maybe to release any financial burden on the family?
 
This is a fascinating read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/no-body-murder-cases_b_137791.html

It's happened in states all over America going back to the 1840's when arriving sailors on the schooner Sarah Lavinia could not account for the whereabouts of their first mate. They were convicted of tossing him overboard. And, 'no body' prosecutions have happened ever since -- in courts around the world.

BBM

I did mention throwing a body out to sea.

Attorney Tad DiBiase, who runs the nobodymurdercases.com Web site, has collected nearly 300 examples of U.S. prosecutors who didn't let the fact that there was no body get in the way of filing murder charges. Debaise says he's discovered only one case in which the missing "victim" was later found alive. In 1886 one Mr. Charles Hudspeth was convicted and executed for killing his lover's husband. Sadly, the husband was later discovered alive living in another state.

Would a jury believe Karen has left to begin a new life?

Defense attorneys used to routinely argue to juries that the victim could still be alive. But that played right into the prosecutor's strategy. It opened the door for the state to hammer home how great and reliable a person the victim was. Surely, they would tell the jury, the victim never would have voluntarily left the children, the job, their church, their way of life.

Karen, it was argued, would never have voluntarily left Sarah.

Yet the body is still the single most important piece of direct evidence a murder case can have. Without it there's no time of death, no evidence from the condition of the body or the wound, no crime scene to process. The track record of convictions proves, however, that circumstantial evidence can be just as powerful.

But a funny thing often happens on the way to a 'no body' murder trial, especially if the death penalty is on the table.

That is one option we do not have in Australia- to exert pressure via capital punishment. So the police must resort to releasing phone ping data to the Herald Sun in the hope that, as is most likely the case, Sarah 'has the courage' and offers information against Borce.

We do, however have 'No Body, No Parole' legislation:

Northern Territory Joins the “No Body, No Parole” States
Thursday 21 July 2016 @ 9.59 a.m.
Timebase
Crime
Judiciary, Legal Profession & Procedure

'On 13 July 2016, the Northern Territory Parole Amendment Act 2016 (No 28 of 2016) (the Amendment Act) was assented and is expected to come into operation in the near future. The enactment of this legislation places the Northern Territory (NT) in with a group of other State jurisdictions who have either enacted or are in the process of enacting similar legislation - these are as follows:

Western Australia, which currently has a Bill the Sentence Administration Amendment Bill 2016 before its Legislative Assembly as at 11 May 2016;
Victoria, which also currently has a Bill the Corrections Amendment (No Body, No Parole) Bill 2016 before its Legislative Council as at 24 February 2016; and
South Australia, which has enacted the Correctional Services (Parole) Amendment Act 2015 (No 17 of 2015) which commenced operation on 11 February 2016.

In essence, this type of legislation is intended to prevent people convicted of murder from being able to qualify for parole unless they provide police with the location of the body of their victim(s).'

https://www.timebase.com.au/news/2016/AT279-article.html
 
Sorry I'm having trouble quoting but tappedin's post about the 21st got me thinking.

Could it be
1. KR inherits $$ in 2015.
2. Assumption - BR takes over business from KR early 2016 to avoid this inheritance being taken if all goes belly up? (I'mno accountant but this would work?).
3. BR and KR throw a nice party for SR's 21st.
4. Assumption - no nice 21st was ever held for AR by BR and KR? AR not at SR's 21st.
5. Assumption - AR has nose out of joint about party and learns of inheritance.
6. AR decides to call KR.
7. Phone call is an attempt to extract his share of $$ (for rehab)
8. Assumption - KR say no.
9. Assumption - AR tries to blackmail KR with abuse story (whether it's true or not). She says go away.
10. Assumption - Strain over finances worsen with this latest family drama.
11. Bad day at the shop on Tuesday 28th of June -another BR/KR argument either 28th or 29th-
12. Assumption - Accident or deliberate act to end KR's life on evening of 28th/29th of June by BR.
13. Assumption - BR dumps bag and empty wallet off raleigh road bridge into maribyrnong in middle of night. Someone sees him or there is CCTV footage from somewhere along that road that places him there that evening. This is attempt to have it float up somewhere so that it looks like robbery/abduction by evil person. However bag disappears.
14. Assumption - BR hangs onto phone in case he decides to make it look like she's somewhere or that evil person has her phone...may be going to send fake text message like "see you I'm going on another trip to China" or fake kidnapping?
15. Assumption - After SR leaves house in morning (no evidence that this took place) KR is transported via mercedes to somewhere between diggers rest and gisbourne.
16. Assumption - BR turns phone off when getting off Calder at Diggers rest....forgets in panic that he's got KR's phone with him
17. Assumption - Watergardens store staff call KR's phone during day (she may have expected late morning?) and scare the bejeezus out of BR because he's forgotten he's got so he quickly switches it off just after it has pinged off a tower near Gisbourne. Phone is left with KR or discarded somewhere
separate.
18. BR is calling KR and comes home and starts scouring street for CCTV footage [because after mistake with phone he'snot sure what other mistakes he's made].
19. Assumption - at some point in following days VR and SR learn of what has transpired. SR is devastated but hang'sonto the only family she's got left.
20. Assumption - VR tries to help his brother by cleverly throwing everyone off the scent.
21. Assumption - AR has no clue about what's really gone on. Estranged from family and once again made to feel leftout he struggles to cope with being on the outer so is putting himself in thespotlight.

What I can't compute is why if AR hates KR so much and now she's gone and BR did it when why is AR all cross with BR? Should be his current hero. But if SR did it and BR is covering for her then this makes AR jealous because BR stands up for SR but never has for him (in his eyes). I don't think AR knows what's gone on because no one would have told him. I certainly wouldn't entrust him with my biggest secret. If the abuse story is to cover for BR (provide motive) then it's a big gamble by BR to trust AR not slip up. Police would outsmart him in an interview I think without too much trouble.
 
Sorry I'm having trouble quoting but tappedin's post about the 21st got me thinking.

Could it be
1. KR inherits $$ in 2015.
2. Assumption - BR takes over business fromKR early 2016 to avoid this inheritance being taken if all goes belly up? (I'mno accountant but this would work?).
3. BR and KR throw a nice party for SR's21st.
4. Assumption - no nice 21st was ever heldfor AR by BR and KR? AR not at SR's 21st.
5. Assumption - AR has nose out of jointabout party and learns of inheritance.
6. AR decides to call KR.
7. Phone call is an attempt to extract hisshare of $$ (for rehab)
8. Assumption - KR say no.
9. Assumption - AR tries to blackmail KRwith abuse story (whether it's true or not). She says go away.
10. Assumption - Strain over finances worsen withthis latest family drama.
11. Bad day at the shop on Tuesday 28th of June -another BR/KR argument either 28th or 29th-
12. Assumption - Accident or deliberate act to endKR's life on evening of 28th/29th of June by BR.
13. Assumption - BR dumps bag and empty wallet offraleigh road bridge into maribyrnong in middle of night. Someone sees himor there is CCTV footage from somewhere along that road that places him therethat evening.
14. Assumption - BR hangs onto phone in casehe decides to make it look like she's somewhere or that evil person has herphone...may be going to send fake text message like "see you I'm going onanother trip to China" or fake kidnapping?
15. Assumption - After SR leaves house inmorning (no evidence that this took place) KR is transported via mercedes tosomewhere between diggers rest and gisbourne.
16. Assumption - BR turns phone off whengetting off Calder at Diggers rest....forgets in panic that he's got KR's phonewith him
17. Assumption - Watergardens store staffcall KR's phone during day (she may have expected late morning) and scare the bejeezus out of BR because he's forgotten he'sgot so he quickly switches it off just after it has pinged off a tower nearGisbourne. Phone is left with KR or discarded somewhere
separate.
18. BR is calling KR and comes home andstarts scouring street for CCTV footage [because after mistake with phone he'snot sure what other mistakes he's made].
19. Assumption - at some point in followingdays VR and SR learn of what has transpired. SR is devastated but hang'sonto the only family she's got left.
20. Assumption - VR tries to help hisbrother by cleverly throwing everyone off the scent.
21. Assumption - AR has no clue about what'sreally gone on. Estranged from family and once again made to feel leftout he struggles to cope with being on the outer so is putting himself in thespotlight.

What I can't compute is why if AR hates KR so muchand now she's gone and BR did it when why is AR all cross with BR? Shouldbe his current hero. But if SR did it and BR is covering for her thenthis makes AR jealous because BR stands up for SR but never has for him (in hiseyes). I don't think AR knows what's gone on because no one would havetold him. I certainly wouldn't entrust him with my biggest secret. If the abuse story is to cover for BR (provide motive) then it's a biggamble by BR to trust AR not slip up. Police would outsmart him in aninterview I think without too much trouble.


I wonder if BR had an "uber" pick up the night before which required him to drive over the raleigh road bridge (maribyrnong river under) and threw the bag out.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Sorry I'm having trouble quoting but tappedin's post about the 21st got me thinking.

Could it be
1. KR inherits $$ in 2015.
2. Assumption - BR takes over business fromKR early 2016 to avoid this inheritance being taken if all goes belly up? (I'mno accountant but this would work?).
3. BR and KR throw a nice party for SR's21st.
4. Assumption - no nice 21st was ever heldfor AR by BR and KR? AR not at SR's 21st.
5. Assumption - AR has nose out of jointabout party and learns of inheritance.
6. AR decides to call KR.
7. Phone call is an attempt to extract hisshare of $$ (for rehab)
8. Assumption - KR say no.
9. Assumption - AR tries to blackmail KRwith abuse story (whether it's true or not). She says go away.
10. Assumption - Strain over finances worsen withthis latest family drama.
11. Bad day at the shop on Tuesday 28th of June -another BR/KR argument either 28th or 29th-
12. Assumption - Accident or deliberate act to endKR's life on evening of 28th/29th of June by BR.
13. Assumption - BR dumps bag and empty wallet offraleigh road bridge into maribyrnong in middle of night. Someone sees himor there is CCTV footage from somewhere along that road that places him therethat evening.
14. Assumption - BR hangs onto phone in casehe decides to make it look like she's somewhere or that evil person has herphone...may be going to send fake text message like "see you I'm going onanother trip to China" or fake kidnapping?
15. Assumption - After SR leaves house inmorning (no evidence that this took place) KR is transported via mercedes tosomewhere between diggers rest and gisbourne.
16. Assumption - BR turns phone off whengetting off Calder at Diggers rest....forgets in panic that he's got KR's phonewith him
17. Assumption - Watergardens store staffcall KR's phone during day (she may have expected late morning) and scare the bejeezus out of BR because he's forgotten he'sgot so he quickly switches it off just after it has pinged off a tower nearGisbourne. Phone is left with KR or discarded somewhere
separate.
18. BR is calling KR and comes home andstarts scouring street for CCTV footage [because after mistake with phone he'snot sure what other mistakes he's made].
19. Assumption - at some point in followingdays VR and SR learn of what has transpired. SR is devastated but hang'sonto the only family she's got left.
20. Assumption - VR tries to help hisbrother by cleverly throwing everyone off the scent.
21. Assumption - AR has no clue about what'sreally gone on. Estranged from family and once again made to feel leftout he struggles to cope with being on the outer so is putting himself in thespotlight.

What I can't compute is why if AR hates KR so muchand now she's gone and BR did it when why is AR all cross with BR? Shouldbe his current hero. But if SR did it and BR is covering for her thenthis makes AR jealous because BR stands up for SR but never has for him (in hiseyes). I don't think AR knows what's gone on because no one would havetold him. I certainly wouldn't entrust him with my biggest secret. If the abuse story is to cover for BR (provide motive) then it's a biggamble by BR to trust AR not slip up. Police would outsmart him in aninterview I think without too much trouble.



This is a good.
Sorry if this sounds insensitive. But people on drugs always seem to find a way to get money for their habit. And family is one way of obtaining that money.

I would have thought AR idolises KR. (I see posts by AR describing positive attributes towards KR). Could AR, have rung up and asked for help financially and then KR used BR as an excuse? AR is now blaming BR?

BR, seems to have put his foot down with AR, in getting a job at a young age! However, AR still blames BR for his downfall.
 
Hadn't though about Uber movements the evening before the 29th.
 
I sure wouldn't entrust an unstable addict whom hated me with any secret, good or bad. Prob a familiar area that BR drove through w phone pings, rather than anything to do with his wayward son. MOO.
Look @ the angst this case is causing concerned members of WS...Imagine the angst of the R family atm. What a terrible plight for all the innocent members whom just want Karen home safe.
You're all in my thoughts with prayers n blessings. Glad it's not my life or loved one!
 
By the second press conference/appeal for information her mum had been gone a long time. SR could have been sleep deprived - all cried out and numb - still in shock or even medicated to help her cope. But why not look the camera? I'd be eye balling that camera lens and pleading with mum to come home or whoever was holding her hostage to please let her go.

Of course, many people would do exactly that - but others can't, and not for guilty reasons - spectrum disorder, self-confidence, anxiety. Maintaining even eye-contact is difficult and feels too intimate for some people. It can be difficult for them to interact with people they are not close to, and it can be even worse when stress of any kind comes into play. For someone with such issues, being forced to be under scrutiny of any kind, or to speak in a stressful situation would be a mortifying ordeal in itself that would take considerable effort to simply get through (regardless of the magnitude of the situation). Their own programming may lock them in their own head, making them seem callous/lacking in empathy/unsympathetic etc, when in reality their brain is processing them through the situation as best it can...

People are strange - myself included!
 
Thank you Tappedin. That would make sense. KR blames BR for not handing over money so AR despises BR, especially now as KR will never be able to give him money. That makes sense.
I wonder if AR features in KR's will or if everything goes to BR/SR or just BR?
 
This is a good.
Sorry if this sounds insensitive. But people on drugs always seem to find a way to get money for their habit. And family is one way of obtaining that money.

I would have thought AR idolises KR. (I see posts by AR describing positive attributes towards KR). Could AR, have rung up and asked for help financially and then KR used BR as an excuse? AR is now blaming BR?

BR, seems to have put his foot down with AR, in getting a job at a young age! However, AR still blames BR for his downfall.
It's not insensitive , people on "ice" will do anything to feed their addiction. The ones that break free of their habit ( which unfortunately is not a lot) look back on their behavior whilst under the influence and don't know the person they were. It's a horrible horrible drug that can turn the most loving kind person into a selfish demon possesed. It also gives the user when high almost super human strength ect that they are not capable of when sober. I'm not an expert but have seen it first hand.
 
All good points Wonky and all feasible. I've noticed that AR does not mention or refer to SR in all of his ramblings. No biggie really. His anger seems to be directed solely towards BR and KR.

Sorry I'm having trouble quoting but tappedin's post about the 21st got me thinking.

Could it be
1. KR inherits $$ in 2015.
2. Assumption - BR takes over business from KR early 2016 to avoid this inheritance being taken if all goes belly up? (I'mno accountant but this would work?).
3. BR and KR throw a nice party for SR's 21st.
4. Assumption - no nice 21st was ever held for AR by BR and KR? AR not at SR's 21st.
5. Assumption - AR has nose out of joint about party and learns of inheritance.
6. AR decides to call KR.
7. Phone call is an attempt to extract his share of $$ (for rehab)
8. Assumption - KR say no.
9. Assumption - AR tries to blackmail KR with abuse story (whether it's true or not). She says go away.
10. Assumption - Strain over finances worsen with this latest family drama.
11. Bad day at the shop on Tuesday 28th of June -another BR/KR argument either 28th or 29th-
12. Assumption - Accident or deliberate act to end KR's life on evening of 28th/29th of June by BR.
13. Assumption - BR dumps bag and empty wallet off raleigh road bridge into maribyrnong in middle of night. Someone sees him or there is CCTV footage from somewhere along that road that places him there that evening. This is attempt to have it float up somewhere so that it looks like robbery/abduction by evil person. However bag disappears.
14. Assumption - BR hangs onto phone in case he decides to make it look like she's somewhere or that evil person has her phone...may be going to send fake text message like "see you I'm going on another trip to China" or fake kidnapping?
15. Assumption - After SR leaves house in morning (no evidence that this took place) KR is transported via mercedes to somewhere between diggers rest and gisbourne.
16. Assumption - BR turns phone off when getting off Calder at Diggers rest....forgets in panic that he's got KR's phone with him
17. Assumption - Watergardens store staff call KR's phone during day (she may have expected late morning?) and scare the bejeezus out of BR because he's forgotten he's got so he quickly switches it off just after it has pinged off a tower near Gisbourne. Phone is left with KR or discarded somewhere
separate.
18. BR is calling KR and comes home and starts scouring street for CCTV footage [because after mistake with phone he'snot sure what other mistakes he's made].
19. Assumption - at some point in following days VR and SR learn of what has transpired. SR is devastated but hang'sonto the only family she's got left.
20. Assumption - VR tries to help his brother by cleverly throwing everyone off the scent.
21. Assumption - AR has no clue about what's really gone on. Estranged from family and once again made to feel leftout he struggles to cope with being on the outer so is putting himself in thespotlight.

What I can't compute is why if AR hates KR so much and now she's gone and BR did it when why is AR all cross with BR? Should be his current hero. But if SR did it and BR is covering for her then this makes AR jealous because BR stands up for SR but never has for him (in his eyes). I don't think AR knows what's gone on because no one would have told him. I certainly wouldn't entrust him with my biggest secret. If the abuse story is to cover for BR (provide motive) then it's a big gamble by BR to trust AR not slip up. Police would outsmart him in an interview I think without too much trouble.
 
I sure wouldn't entrust an unstable addict whom hated me with any secret, good or bad. Prob a familiar area that BR drove through w phone pings, rather than anything to do with his wayward son. MOO.
Look @ the angst this case is causing concerned members of WS...Imagine the angst of the R family atm. What a terrible plight for all the innocent members whom just want Karen home safe.
You're all in my thoughts with prayers n blessings. Glad it's not my life or loved one!
You can see their house from my bedroom window. Every morning when I open the curtains and look over there it's another day that she's not found. Initially I was worried for the family (and everyone in our local area) because I honestly believed she's be snatched from the path. But then i saw the look that BR gave that reporter at the second conference and doubt finally started to creep in. I really,really wanted KR to be OK and for her family to have nothing to do with this. Hoping it was a shady business connection or planned departure. And all the circus/strange reactions could just be a strange family under pressure because they've lost their mum/wife/niece/sister in law/step mum. But then the pings came. Hopefully she will be found by LE at some point.
 
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