Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #8

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Let's say that Karen and AR were having an affair. Then Borce rides up the Calder to speak to them both (Karen and AR) at AR's place up there. Borce didn't want to get AR involved into the missing person case for obvious reasons, so he doesn't tell the police he was up there- AS HE NEVER ASSUMED KAREN WOULD BE FOUND DEAD UP THERE (AS HE DIDN'T KILL HER); though, when she went missing for AGES AND AGES, and the cops were looking to him to have murdered his wife (though he didn't), he just made up some OBVIOUS hogwash about a faulty fuel gauge to get the cops off his back, rather than saying, well, officer, i went up the Calder to confront AR about sleeping with my wife ROFL!!!!! I can't see too many people being honest about that- even a faulty fuel gauge can seem a better excuse for why one is up the Calder than incestuous, infidelitous relations.

do i believe this? to be perfetly honest, i do believe it a bit. But it also sounds ridiculous to me. But, hey, this is a throwing theories around forum, so i'm doing my (overtime) bit LOL

Doesn't add up forms. Karen was expected at work that morning & her absence caused Bella Blu workers to contact Borce looking for Karen.

How did Karen get to AR's place after leaving home at about 10am, without her car, and how did she expect to get to work in a timely manner?
 
Murderers are the same as you and me, subject to gravity, time, weather.. the earth goes round the sun for them the same as it does for me ... time doesn't speed up , or slow down just because you are killing someone.. the clock ticks on relentlessly, if it's winter, the days are short, if it's summer the nights are short, a murderer gets no special dispensation..

Working backwards from Karen's burial location. .. the science of geographical profiling comes into play.. this was a particular branch of criminal profiling entered into in the aftermath of the Yorkshire ripper killings.. invented by a scientist who was a former RAF navigator in the 2nd world war..

He had to get his plane to the target, and get it home, to base within a time frame, crossing degrees of longitude, and latitude, racing the sun home, and flying towards it on the way out, but always with the home base clock ticking on a inflexible path.

What has this to do with Karen, in particular? .. Every crime has a home base. That is, every criminal has a place he/she calls home, and it is from this home that he/she ventures out, commits the crime, and returns back to base.. Even if the crime is committed in the home base itself, rooms have to be navigated, but more importantly, time has to be managed and apportioned to each task that must be achieved..

It is reasonable to assume that Karen's location of burial had to be in proximity to the killer's. This killer was burdened by time problems. He/she cannot drive the body over to South Australia and leave it buried in the desert, or take it up to the Murray River and leave it between Mildura and Renmark, far , far away from any hint of the original leaving place, Avondale.

Time has compelled this killer to do the quickest run he/she can. That means highway travel, but even then, time relentlessly rolled on, and the time taken on the out trip has eaten into the time left for the return trip.. There is only so much time to get rid of the body ( evidence) . and the sun comes up on another day, as usual, the dawn doesn't delay to assist a killer. ..

Geographically, taking into account where Karen lived, and where her reasonably suspected killer lives, and how much time in the normal day is possible to maintain a façade AND bury a body as far away from the home , in the winter, and subconsciously travelling in a direction already well known * ( Son at Diggers Rest, Brother at Toolern Vale, and in a time of stress one clings to the familiar )Mt Macedon is just about right on the money.
 
Doesn't add up forms. Karen was expected at work that morning & her absence caused Bella Blu workers to contact Borce looking for Karen.

How did Karen get to AR's place after leaving home at about 10am, without her car, and how did she expect to get to work in a timely manner?

Maybe the **** hit the fan after Borce and Karen rowed about her inappropriate relation with AR. So work took a back seat- Karen thought her helpers would open up. So Karen went to AR's to discuss something or give him money she was paying him as compo for her touching of him when he was young, or to carry on the affair, or who knows why. In that situation, work took a back seat. Not sure how Karen got up the Calder, perhaps someone else drove her who has not come forward, someone who maybe was involved in her killing who is not Borce. Not sure who that could be. Vasko? doubt it highly. Someone else.

I'm not necessarily believing this, but i'm just saying these are still live options. The herald sun has blinkered us, though we'll all be shocked if something different turns up. I'm open to anything. Theories will fill the vacuum.
 
Karen and AR were carrying on an affair? So Borce rode up the Calder to AR's place to confront Karen and AR? That places Karen's and Borce's phones up there.

There is no evidence of many people leaving their homes- it's not as if suburbia is wired up to monitor the backstreets.

Do you know for a fact there was an affair going on? I'm not buying what that drug addled loon is saying though, sorry. He hasn't been named a POI or a suspect, only BR has so far, and i'm sure police have investigated AR with all of his public rantings. All IMO
 
I don't know when Borce stopped ringing Karen's phone.. this is such a fundamental error, repeated time and time again, the killer forgets to keep on pretending to being mystified about the non appearance of the wife, and hence, stops ringing.. only someone who knew that phone wouldn't be answered and certainly didn't want to speak to anyone on the other end of that particular number would quit ringing it..

One really needs to plan a murder in reverse.
 
Wondering if the media are still camped across the road?
 
If Karen really did leave Borce- like really left the house and wasn't coming back- then who killed her? That leaves Vasko or AR.

Following on from another earlier post of mine, perhaps AR killed Karen in order to frame Borce after she left Borce.... The plot thickens. If Borce hasn't done this, then it becomes extremely complicated. I'm not convinced Borce did this, to be perfectly honest.

I suppose it all hinges on whether she left the house or not. LOL I find it amusing that we still can't even confirm that. People are convinced she never left home, but i was prepared to give Borce the benefit of the doubt that Karen did leave home. Perhaps i'm being too kind.... And if AR's claims of Karen leaving Borce are true, then Borce must have killed her. This is all going around in circles.

Well, if she did plan to leave Borce, right then, at that very moment .... she sure forgot to wear her shoes! In that chilly Vic weather.
 
Well, if she did plan to leave Borce, right then, at that very moment .... she sure forgot to wear her shoes! In that chilly Vic weather.

Who said she isn't wearing shoes? I wouldn't have a clue what shoes anyone is wearing unless they cost 5k and look out of the norm. She obviously wore some nondescript shoes.
 
He did. Early news articles reported that he asked neighbours to check their CCTV to help him to determine which way Karen went when she left to 'clear her head'. I'm pretty sure he did this very early on, before the fully fledged police involvement.


Whether this was a genuine attempt to find out where Karen went, or a strategic move on Borce's part to help him build his story is an open question. In isolation it looks innocent enough. In combination with other facts, it seems suspicious to me.

IIRC he even asked them for the CCTV recordings ... not just for them to look at it.
 
Well, if she did plan to leave Borce, right then, at that very moment .... she sure forgot to wear her shoes! In that chilly Vic weather.

Yeah, what is up with Karen not wearing shoes? Goodness that sounds all messed up IMO.
 
Yeah, what is up with Karen not wearing shoes? Goodness that sounds all messed up IMO.

Nobody has said or shown she didn't wear shoes. It seems Borce didn't specify her footwear to the police, so the mannequin police dressed up as Karen when seeking leads from the public didn't have shoes. That doesn't mean she wore no shoes.
 
Who said she isn't wearing shoes? I wouldn't have a clue what shoes anyone is wearing unless they cost 5k and look out of norm. She obviously wore some nondescript shoes.

Lots of us say she wasn't wearing shoes. None were ever in the description of missing items (they always include the shoes, if known. Even if it is just a colour of shoe. Shoes falls off and can be found). None were on the police mannequin. There were no shoes.

A bloke may not notice these things. But a girl does. Even Sarah did not admit to a pair of shoes that were missing, it seems. And girls (and work staff) know the range of comfy shoes that mum (or work boss) wears to work ... or wears out for a walk. And most daughters - especially those living at home - would know all the shoes mum has in her wardrobe, because we like to wear them if they fit and suit our outfit, and we are often there when mum buys them.

Believe me, most girls know shoes.
 
Murderers are the same as you and me, subject to gravity, time, weather.. the earth goes round the sun for them the same as it does for me ... time doesn't speed up , or slow down just because you are killing someone.. the clock ticks on relentlessly, if it's winter, the days are short, if it's summer the nights are short, a murderer gets no special dispensation..

Working backwards from Karen's burial location. .. the science of geographical profiling comes into play.. this was a particular branch of criminal profiling entered into in the aftermath of the Yorkshire ripper killings.. invented by a scientist who was a former RAF navigator in the 2nd world war..

He had to get his plane to the target, and get it home, to base within a time frame, crossing degrees of longitude, and latitude, racing the sun home, and flying towards it on the way out, but always with the home base clock ticking on a inflexible path.

What has this to do with Karen, in particular? .. Every crime has a home base. That is, every criminal has a place he/she calls home, and it is from this home that he/she ventures out, commits the crime, and returns back to base.. Even if the crime is committed in the home base itself, rooms have to be navigated, but more importantly, time has to be managed and apportioned to each task that must be achieved..

It is reasonable to assume that Karen's location of burial had to be in proximity to the killer's. This killer was burdened by time problems. He/she cannot drive the body over to South Australia and leave it buried in the desert, or take it up to the Murray River and leave it between Mildura and Renmark, far , far away from any hint of the original leaving place, Avondale.

Time has compelled this killer to do the quickest run he/she can. That means highway travel, but even then, time relentlessly rolled on, and the time taken on the out trip has eaten into the time left for the return trip.. There is only so much time to get rid of the body ( evidence) . and the sun comes up on another day, as usual, the dawn doesn't delay to assist a killer. ..

Geographically, taking into account where Karen lived, and where her reasonably suspected killer lives, and how much time in the normal day is possible to maintain a façade AND bury a body as far away from the home , in the winter, and subconsciously travelling in a direction already well known * ( Son at Diggers Rest, Brother at Toolern Vale, and in a time of stress one clings to the familiar )Mt Macedon is just about right on the money.

Again a pleasure to read your posts you have a brilliant mind Trooper.
 
I don't believe she was wearing shoes because I don't believe she walked out of the house.

Who said she isn't wearing shoes? I wouldn't have a clue what shoes anyone is wearing unless they cost 5k and look out of the norm. She obviously wore some nondescript shoes.
 
Lots of us say she wasn't wearing shoes. None were ever in the description of missing items (they always include the shoes, if known. Even if it is just a colour of shoe. Shoes falls off and can be found). None were on the police mannequin. There were no shoes.

A bloke may not notice these things. But a girl does. Even Sarah did not admit to a pair of shoes that were missing, it seems. And girls (and work staff) know the range of comfy shoes that mum (or work boss) wears to work ... or wears out for a walk. And most daughters - especially those living at home - would know all the shoes mum has in her wardrobe, because we like to wear them if they fit and suit our outfit, and we are often there when mum buys them.

Believe me, most girls know shoes.

I agree with everything you've written here, but until it is confirmed that none of Karen's shoes were unaccounted for when she disappeared (something SR may well be able to determine), I don't think we can read anything into the fact that the mannequin dressed as Karen had no shoes on.


If Karen was killed at home, it's entirely possible the killer neglected to spirit her body away along with some shoes (to add credibility to her having gone for a walk), but as stated above, I don't think we have any information to justify reading anything to Karen's shoes or lack thereof at this point, beyond joking about it as some have.
 
I agree with everything you've written here, but until it is confirmed that none of Karen's shoes were unaccounted for when she disappeared (something SR may well be able to determine), I don't think we can read anything into the fact that the mannequin dressed as Karen had no shoes on.


If Karen was killed at home, it's entirely possible the killer neglected to spirit her body away along with some shoes (to add credibility to her having gone for a walk), but as stated above, I don't think we have any information to justify reading anything to Karen's shoes or lack thereof at this point, beyond joking about it as some have.

We haven't been joking about it. We mean it. It is a huge missing item.
As I said before, police always include shoes in the description of a missing person ... unless the person went missing with no family sighting, no daughter at home to check the shoe collection, no work mates to say what range of shoes she always wore, no-one to say "if she had her Coach bag she would have worn these or these shoes, as they match" (if Karen matched her shoes to her other accessories).

Shoes are an important item .. they fall off .. they get found. They may lead to the whereabouts of the missing person.

Heck, I have even seen missing reports that state that the person was wearing a pair of flipflops. Little William was wearing certain sandals. On and on ......
 
Wondering how long until the final Forensic Pathologist report comes through.. I'm aware initial reports have come up with minimal information based on reports by msn, so the more detailed reports will hopefully clarify what happened. Then the solid line of interviewing by LE can begin and an arrest made.
 
This is how I see the AR theory working out. Karen was at AR's the night before <modsnip> She decided to stay the night for some reason--<modsnip> She intended to be at work on time the next morning but AR killed her first. BR didn't worry about her not being home overnight; maybe she'd told him where she'd be, maybe it wasn't unusual for her to sleep out. When the shop staff called him and Karen didn't answer her phone, he drove up to Diggers Rest to find her. He found her hours' dead. He decided to help AR cover up (because he cares about his son, and sending AR to gaol wouldn't bring Karen back) and took Karen up to Mt Macedon and concealed the body. Then to distract from the scene of the crime, he invented the story of the argument and her going for a walk from home. Later he also invented the silly story about the fuel gauge.

I'm not sure how the cars work out . . . if Karen had her car at Diggers Rest, which seems reasonable, BR must have driven his own car there. Whatever was used for the disposal, the Mercedes had to be driven back to Avondale Heights, and perhaps that's when it was captured.

I think I had more to say but I've forgotten for the moment so I'll post.
 
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