Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #8

[Unit45]

Early media reports mentioned Karen leaving Borce when Sarah turned 21.

Did this seem to be common knowledge in the family?

But i didnt see any follow up to that afterwards, like going where and with whom?

 

[Westside_Sleuth]

Early media reports mentioned Karen leaving Borce when Sarah turned 21.

Did this seem to be common knowledge in the family?

But i didnt see any follow up to thats afterwards, like going where and with whom?

Pretty sure the only source of this info is AR. No other family reported it.


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[Trooper]

"Determining her cause of death will be 'crucial' in order to prosecute someone in connection with her death, defence lawyer Bernie Balmer said.

'In order to charge and prosecute someone for murder you've got to eliminate all other possibilities – that it wasn't an accident,' he told the paper."


What if forensics are unable to determine the cause of death? Does it mean it is virtually impossible to prosecute someone without knowing 'cause of death'





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Karens death would be the result of a lack of oxygen to the brain.. we all die of this, every single person living now and in the past, what will be decided is, taking in all the peripheral evidence, and no record of major illness or history of such, her apparent good health up till her disappearance, probably, most likely, the coroner will declare that another human agency came between Karen's capacity to obtain oxygen to her brain , in a catastrophic manner. ..

The coroner may not be able to pinpoint the exact manner of death, the mechanics of it, but he most likely will rule out Karen's involvement in her own death. That is, a non - suicidal death. Mainly because of her location when eventually found.

And this could have happened eventually, even if she was never found... the circumstances of her missing would be the trigger for a coronial investigation..

this website below explains that process far more accurately than I can.. Kylie Labouchardiere 's body has never been found to this day..

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2007/s2733727.htm

 

[sayswho]

The mortein didnt work, the Ants are back 🐜🐜🐜

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[Trooper]

and for they'll get you... this is another one caught , in the end, by a mobile phone.. It took years, but some bright spark in the NSW police , going back thru all the collected evidence , found an old mobile phone, and had it resurrected by the boffins in the Tech Section.. and bingo!... the last message from Kylie to Paul and his last messages from him to her. He had two phones, one specifically for Kylie, and one to weave his web about Kylie 'stalking him'..

 

[Trooper]

The mortein didnt work, the Ants are back ������

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No breaks for Ant.... .. what a busy boy he is!... you could almost say he is addicted to his facebook page. He didn't last long with the privacy thingy.. the feedback is nectar to Ant.... . any feedback, abusive, sympathetic, curious, blagging.. it's all nectar to Ant..

 

[mammon73]

So BR takes the Merc for a spin with handbag and some other artefacts to Toolern Vale and disposed of them - hopefully they are found which looks like an abduction.
The body remains in the home.
He asks neighbours for CCTV footage to see what depth of evidence etc is created.
He then weighs this up and then at some stage moves the body - probably in dark hours - up to Macedon. Maybe with assistance or perhaps even in the passenger seat in the dark...

 

[ScottKam]

So BR takes the Merc for a spin with handbag and some other artefacts to Toolern Vale and disposed of them - hopefully they are found which looks like an abduction.
The body remains in the home.
He asks neighbours for CCTV footage to see what depth of evidence etc is created.
He then weighs this up and then at some stage moves the body - probably in dark hours - up to Macedon. Maybe with assistance or perhaps even in the passenger seat in the dark...

Just out of curiosity, when was the house searched by the police? Presumably the initial police response would have told Borce to check the house- all rooms and cupboards- and maybe the cops even helped or did it themselves, to be certain; but when was the house actually completely searched by the police- like when did they check all the roof space and other spaces? Was that done when they took that shovel away for testing, when they also took the cars away? I can't remember when it all was. Technically, it's possible he hides the body in the roof space for weeks. Sounds ridiculous, but if no one looks up there..... It reminds me of that case in the media recently of the little girl whose dead body was stashed in the roof space- the cops found her (not sure when it was they found her).

It's bizarre to think that Borce reported Karen missing and could have kept her in the house, though if no one looks, then it's entirely possible, though UTTERLY brazen. But we are all aware of husbands burying wives under backyard verandas, but i don't think there was any report of digging in the backyard by police; but they must have scanned everything.

 

[mammon73]

He may have only stored the body until that night or the following night. I dont think she was offocialyy report ed missing for 3 days ?(not sure).

But this would allow him to do the handbag dump etc at Toolern Vale that morning - have the CCTV checked to see what he is dealing with - and then move the body in the night. Could have even propped her up in the dark hours that night in any of the cars to move to Macedon.

 

[Jo Kenda]

Just out of curiosity, when was the house searched by the police? Presumably the initial police response would have told Borce to check the house- all rooms and cupboards- and maybe the cops even helped or did it themselves, to be certain; but when was the house actually completely searched by the police- like when did they check all the roof space and other spaces? Was that done when they took that shovel away for testing, when they also took the cars away? I can't remember when it all was. Technically, it's possible he hides the body in the roof space for weeks. Sounds ridiculous, but if no one looks up there..... It reminds me of that case in the media recently of the little girl whose dead body was stashed in the roof space- the cops found her (not sure when it was they found her).

It's bizarre to think that Borce reported Karen missing and could have kept her in the house, though if no one looks, then it's entirely possible, though UTTERLY brazen. But we are all aware of husbands burying wives under backyard verandas, but i don't think there was any report of digging in the backyard by police; but they must have scanned everything.

I'm wondering the same thing - how thorough was the search of the house. Did they just take computers etc or did they do a full search. I don't feel like it was a complete sweep.

 

[mammon73]

IMO car movements after 6pm that night and the following night are critical. The Merc fuel gauge trip is a deliberate sideline by BR to make it look suspicious and confine the search to the Toolern Vale area (where he probably did dump the handbag that morning) knowing that there would be no body there. He then moves the body at night to another area (Macedon). Body gone before offical missing person lodged - but not at the time everyone is thinking - that morning for fuel gauge trip ;-)

 

[sleepinoz]

So BR takes the Merc for a spin with handbag and some other artefacts to Toolern Vale and disposed of them - hopefully they are found which looks like an abduction.
The body remains in the home.
He asks neighbours for CCTV footage to see what depth of evidence etc is created.
He then weighs this up and then at some stage moves the body - probably in dark hours - up to Macedon. Maybe with assistance or perhaps even in the passenger seat in the dark...

Makes you wonder what time her phone left the house doesn't it.

 

[sleepinoz]

He may have only stored the body until that night or the following night. I dont think she was offocialyy report ed missing for 3 days ?(not sure).

But this would allow him to do the handbag dump etc at Toolern Vale that morning - have the CCTV checked to see what he is dealing with - and then move the body in the night. Could have even propped her up in the dark hours that night in any of the cars to move to Macedon.

I think it's a bit of a stretch for him to keep the body, what if Sarah discovered it.

I think the body was dumped first and then he followed up with the car trip to dump the phone and bag etc., to make it look like she left at 10.30 on the 29th.

 

[mammon73]

sarah wasnt home

 

[Unit45]

I wonder how many will get charged, and what with is more important.

 

[sleepinoz]

sarah wasnt home

When? We only know she found out her mother was missing at 7pm when she arrived home, she could have been in and out all day.

Seems a bit strange that BR didn't call her earlier when he knew Karen didn't show up for work.

 

[Unit45]

Its crucial in this investigation to know who was present on the 28th-29th.

Im sure the Police would know Sarah's movements on those days, the phone when called in would answer those questions.

 

[sydney1]

The mortein didnt work, the Ants are back 🐜🐜🐜

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I'm half tempted to add him!!!

 

[Karinna]

It is possible to prosecute without knowing the cause of death or the mode of death. Gerard Baden Clay is a good example. They were unable to determine how Allison died due to decomposition, but they successfully prosecuted her murderous husband.

Same can happen here. imo

Because Karen sure as heck did not take herself off to the forest and lay herself down in the V of those tree trunks. There will be evidence all over the place .... from the start of this terrible event, to the conclusion in that quiet out-of-the-way place.

.

I didn't follow Allison BC case, but have read some about it. Poor sweetheart and her daughters, & at the hands of a murdering so called husband. Glad he got what he deserved in the end.
And definitely cases can be prosecuted without cause of death.

 

[Karinna]

When? We only know she found out her mother was missing at 7pm when she arrived home, she could have been in and out all day.

Seems a bit strange that BR didn't call her earlier when he knew Karen didn't show up for work.

Is it true BR waited 3 days before he called it in?