Australia Australia - Karmein Chan, 13, Templestowe, Vic, 13 April 1991

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+1 for thinking about this case lately (talk about late to the party).
I was 6 years old when these crimes happened but I have hunch, Bung Siyiboon is another victim of Mr Cruel.

There is a great blog (by a sleuther over in USA) put up around July/ August this year that goes into ALOT of details I didn't know of, such as all of the victims exact addresses, and all of the exact drop off addresses (as opposed to just the suburbs). A good read. What stands out most to me is the fact Mr Cruel knew Wills Father would leave the key in the hole on the inside. So he came planned with a tool and a piece of paper to collect the key once it dropped down to the paper when poked from the outside.

I garner 1 thing from that: He had been to the house before in one form or another. Either a tradesman, doctor, aquaintence, sports coach or a delivery driver. He also knew the girls name.

One of my lines of thought is perhaps the police have been barking up the wrong tree with Melb airport.
2 of the girls heard "jets". They were aged 10 and 13. Ok well we DO have another airport called Moorabbin, which is basically the same distance to the sites of abduction (a little less actually) as Melb airport. Now granted, Moorabbin is a smaller airport that does not have commercial major jets. But i looked up the stats history on aviation Australia, and that airport averaged back in 1998 250 flights per day of smaller aircrafts (stats before 1998 weren't available).

I am often near the area with work, around Cheltenham, and I see the low flying smaller planes go over regularly. They make a noise! I have heard them go over from inside a house in the Cheltenham area and it's pretty clear. They also come in to land at a much lower angles and their is houses in the vicinity of the flight path Is it possible the girls heard these engines from not from Melb Airport but Moorabbin airport? If this is the case, the areas for where the purp might live in this flight path would be: Dingley, Mordialloc, Braeside park/ Kingston, Parkdale, Mentone and Heatherton.

Food for thought anyway.
 
Yes it does come back at you this one. He could have been an acquaintance or other to the house he got the key to drop down from. He seems to have a self righteous attitude 'don't be a hero' and asking for money, taking money. Not out to put organisations down, but there is a scout hall there at the Lower Plenty house. There is now at least. Could he have gone by train, as Greensborough station is not that far. That area (lower plenty house) is so hilly, lots of trees and scrub, hiding spots all around.

I too feel the airport theory has missed the mark, it could have been Moorabbin, but there are suburbs under flight paths they could have missed. I wonder if any of the women would be willing to come out or go through it again in the hopes of getting more detail.

Will look for the post you mentioned. Do you think he had an accomplice?
 
One more interesting thing to note about Brian Elkner: he lived about 300m away from site of Maria James murder in 1980, across the road from St Mary's, a known haven for paedophile priests.
 
Reason police zeroed in on Melbourne Airport is because number of flights heard landing by victims corresponded exactly with flight records. Of course, the other possibility is that it was another red herring. We know this guy employed elaborate ruses to confuse his victims - in fact it seems unlikely he would have given away such a clue. Could he have recorded flights landing at Melbourne airport and played a tape in another room..?
 
Reason police zeroed in on Melbourne Airport is because number of flights heard landing by victims corresponded exactly with flight records. Of course, the other possibility is that it was another red herring. We know this guy employed elaborate ruses to confuse his victims - in fact it seems unlikely he would have given away such a clue. Could he have recorded flights landing at Melbourne airport and played a tape in another room..?

I just got a cold chill

maybe someone who was a plane/flight enthusiast? Maybe someone who liked to sit for hours in his car parked under the flight paths at Tullamarine and Moorabbin airports listening to the conversations between pilots and control tower on his scanner?

Who also knew the wills family and had been to their home, who worked in a trade associated workplace and had a limp?
 
I just got a cold chill

maybe someone who was a plane/flight enthusiast? Maybe someone who liked to sit for hours in his car parked under the flight paths at Tullamarine and Moorabbin airports listening to the conversations between pilots and control tower on his scanner?

Who also knew the wills family and had been to their home, who worked in a trade associated workplace and had a limp?

Would help if the other seven suspects were made public.. though presumably police would know if any of the suspects had a link to the Wills family or any of the other victims. Why do you say a limp?

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Would help if the other seven suspects were made public.. though presumably police would know if any of the suspects had a link to the Wills family or any of the other victims. Why do you say a limp?

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On one of the tv shows about the cases a limp was mentioned.
 
On one of the tv shows about the cases a limp was mentioned.
I see. Of course, once you start looking at things as possible red herrings, there's no telling what's a real lead and what's a ruse: the rough voice, stealing the classical music, his reddish hair, his car not starting etc. That's why it's such a devious ploy.

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I see. Of course, once you start looking at things as possible red herrings, there's no telling what's a real lead and what's a ruse: the rough voice, stealing the classical music, his reddish hair, his car not starting etc. That's why it's such a devious ploy.

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That's if it's a ploy, it's quite possible it's real.
 
Here it says about stealing underwear from washing/clothes lines:
"www.heraldsun.com.au...Apr 10, 2012...
- Karmein Chan, his last known victim, was abducted in April 1991. Her body was found a year later. Detectives believe he would have committed minor offences for years before graduating to abduction, rape and finally murder. Those offences almost certainly included stealing underwear from washing lines"

I lived NE back then, had stuff gone from clothes line. I can't remember if that was from a robbery or it just went missing. I remember cos I really liked them, Calvin Klein. I don't know, maybe not related. Be interesting to hear of any other people that may have had stuff taken.

Do you think this perv still has the gun? What about the bullets?
 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...s/news-story/3fda868094c4204d87dc3dcfba744534

The bedroom and bathroom described by the victims.
3a194ba1f0b3617b4fa3a20e2a9bf399.jpg
6d8897381641a9154da82119f70ecd37.jpg
 
"His suspected targets range from a 14-year-old boy to mature women, but most were schoolgirls aged between 10 and 14. One of these suspected attacks was on a 14-year-old girl who was abducted from her Hampton home in Melbourne's southern suburbs in 1985.
She was tied, gagged and blindfolded before being driven to a vacant building site and assaulted.
The scared and scarred schoolgirl was dumped at the nearby Moorabbin Bowl on the Nepean Highway several hours after being kidnapped."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...n/news-story/a9025019f12955de575702a7bd96c282
 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...t/news-story/75cbef6c519a37f6bc6369e1f9c1f137

Robert Keith Knight was behind sick abduction and sex attacks on young girls and cannot be ruled out as Mr Cruel suspect
Keith Moor, HeraldSun
May 3, 2013

"Knight, 62, hadn't been ruled out as being child abductor and murderer Mr Cruel at the time of his death last week.

Victoria Police yesterday confirmed Knight was one of several people detectives were unable to eliminate from the Mr Cruel investigation.

Mr Cruel is the man responsible for a number of unsolved crimes against children, including the 1988 and 1990 kidnappings of Sharon Wills, 10, and Nicola Lynas, 13, and the 1991 murder of Karmein Chan, 13.

Knight was initially suspected of abducting and murdering missing schoolgirl Siriyakorn “Bung” Siriboon, 13, in 2011, but police last week said he was eliminated from that probe before he died.

Det-Sen-Sgt Chris O'Connor, who charged Knight with child sex offences committed in 1980 and 1996 and who was on the Spectrum taskforce set up to hunt Mr Cruel, yesterday said while Knight hadn't been eliminated from the Mr Cruel inquiry his view was that Knight wasn't Mr Cruel.

But he said he was sure Knight had got away with attacking other children between 1980 and when he was jailed in 1996 - and that he was preparing to attack others when he was charged last year with the child *advertiser censored* offences.

Sen-Sgt O'Connor wasn't prepared to say Knight was a suspect in the Mr Cruel case, just that he remained one of several “persons of interest” the Mr Cruel Spectrum taskforce hadn't been able to eliminate.

He said eliminating such people was difficult because Mr Cruel was meticulous in not leaving behind forensic and other evidence which could identify him."
 
California's Golden State Killer linked to Victoria's Mr Cruel
The Australian
1 day ago
https://goo.gl/images/ebQES2


Apologies for this post being a dud, i lost the article half way through my posting it here. ive been able to read the article and see the headlines quickly but then a paywall took over and cant get the written word part now.
That was my intention here .
If someone else can quote it to back up this post would be helpful.
The headlines sounds good ,
then its a major flop because there is no link at all , purely click bait !
The ons/ear was not at all meticulous in his leaving of evidence, so i think the MO is far different enough that blind freddy could see it .
Nevertheless its a decent article to bring out on the anniversary of finding karmein chans body iirc.
To have it in the news is the goal i suppose

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...l/news-story/6c91599d9be8db79a7a33bd814b097a0

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...l/news-story/76233f42e8116fa60c77394a9d756a9c

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...l/news-story/6c91599d9be8db79a7a33bd814b097a0.
 
California's Golden State Killer linked to Victoria's Mr Cruel
The Australian
1 day ago
https://goo.gl/images/ebQES2


Apologies for this post being a dud, i lost the article half way through my posting it here. ive been able to read the article and see the headlines quickly but then a paywall took over and cant get the written word part now.
That was my intention here .
If someone else can quote it to back up this post would be helpful.
The headlines sounds good ,
then its a major flop because there is no link at all , purely click bait !
The ons/ear was not at all meticulous in his leaving of evidence, so i think the MO is far different enough that blind freddy could see it .
Nevertheless its a decent article to bring out on the anniversary of finding karmein chans body iirc.
To have it in the news is the goal i suppose

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...l/news-story/6c91599d9be8db79a7a33bd814b097a0

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...l/news-story/76233f42e8116fa60c77394a9d756a9c

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...l/news-story/6c91599d9be8db79a7a33bd814b097a0.
http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...l/news-story/76233f42e8116fa60c77394a9d756a9c

This should work.

I note though, that since this article came out, that at the press conference in the USA, Law Enforcement officials did specifically state that he is not linked to the Australian Mr Cruel case.

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Good to see it back in the news.

Not sure about the overseas connection.

"Likely to have intense interest in children". Does anyone think he could use a puppy nowadays to get children's attention? Some predators have done this. Note lack of dogs in all kidnappings.
 
I saw a man today. Mid to early 70s. Drinking problem. Slim build. Self rightous attitude. Could be him.

Purchased the paper at a Servo like it was so important. Car has peeling paint on the hood.

You will go down MC, trust me.
 

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Saw a man last week in Watsonia. 60s or 70s. Had legs like him, slim with a handle bar moustache. White/silver hair. Fluro/his vis top and jeans. Shops at the IGA. Watsonia is very close to all locations concerned, and it would be very easy to blend in there and be anonymous for years. Also it has a bit of a 'do what you want' type vibe. That would explain why he wasn't concerned about anyone seeing him when he carried the girl in (nikola).
 

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