GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

[jamie233]

Girlfriend Rachelle Louise arrives at court today with an unidentified man to hear closing statements in the murder trial of her boyfriend Simon Gittany

http://www.news.com.au/national/git...-her-off-balcony/story-e6frfkp9-1226759792392

 

[Makara]

BBM

I've 'studied' the photos of Lisa's bag in my photo editor and I'm of the opinion that the bag had a shoulder strap. You can see it when you lighten/sharpen the first pic of the bag that was published. I was puzzled by the 'shiny' object showing in one of the images of Lisa in the brutal headlock as well and I believe now that it is a buckle on a shoulder strap over Lisa's shoulder. I did a side by side comparison in the attached image.

Photo of Lisa's bag
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AUSTRALIA - Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder

Photo of Lisa's bag
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AUSTRALIA - Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder

Thanks Enzeber. Someone upthread queried the shiny object seen in the video and wondered if it may have been a knife. I had a closer look at the video and IMO what we are seeing is SG's watch. But having said that and looking closely at Lisa's handbag, there are two metal rings on each side of the bag and perhaps this is what we see glinting in the video.

I now feel sick to the stomach after watching that video again. I'm not a violent person but I want to reach through the monitor and punch that in the face while screaming at Lisa to RUN!

Click images to enlarge.

 

[SouthAussie]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 9m
Strickland says the videos and texts of Gittany and Lisa Harnum prove
"she was not in effect a prisoner trapped in her own apartment".

OMG ... because all people who are trusted and free to come and go as they please have/need video and text surveillance to make sure that they are coming and going as they please! :facepalm:

Does Strickland even hear how ridiculous this sounds?! But I guess he doesn't have a choice .. he accepted the job to defend this , and he has to say something.

 

[Makara]

They'll get you, good to crash into you, also... re The Form. On post 234 of this thread from Makara... the ear bitten off stuff, .. he was resisting arrest for break enter steal. His threats to the counselor, Lisa's mother told of the broken finger, Lisa pushed into a planter, etc.. oh there is form alrighty.

But I find it hard to believe that Lisa was his first and only victim of this persistent and ruthless violence , both physical and psychological of women, Lisa in this particular instance .

I'd make a small bet that that unfortunate detective 20 years ago could have been the last time Gittany attacked a bloke. there were ramifications and consequences to that, and he wouldn't have liked that at all. It will be interesting to see how he got employment with his past record of violence, and violence towards a NSW detective, to boot. it must have effected his ability to travel, hold a passport, etc get visa's.

And I don't think he has been living like a monk up until Lisa came into his life, there will be other women savaged along the way., but we probably wont find out about this unless he is convicted and sentenced, then it will be legal to make public his past form in regard to violence against women.

There certainly is 'form' Trooper. It seems to run in the family but I won't go there. I'm speculating that the Today Tonight debacle may have been in relation to a previous relationship. A woman who was willing (and being paid no less) to spill over her violent relationship with SG. All speculation on my part of course.

 

[Makara]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 9m
Strickland says the videos and texts of Gittany and Lisa Harnum prove
"she was not in effect a prisoner trapped in her own apartment".

Thanks for the updates Fuskier. I want to shake the s**t out of Strickland! Hasn't he seen this yet? It was presented in evidence.

 

[enzeder]

This helped me to understand better what 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' means. :sigh:

Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
beyond a reasonable doubt adj. part of jury instructions in all criminal trials, in which the jurors are told that they can only find the defendant guilty if they are convinced "beyond a reasonable doubt" of his or her guilt. Sometimes referred to as "to a moral certainty," the phrase is fraught with uncertainty as to meaning, but try: "you better be damned sure."

Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
The standard that must be met by the prosecution's evidence in a criminal prosecution: that no other logical explanation can be derived from the facts except that the defendant committed the crime, thereby overcoming the presumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

If the jurors or judge have no doubt as to the defendant's guilt, or if their only doubts are unreasonable doubts, then the prosecutor has proven the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the defendant should be pronounced guilty.

The term connotes that evidence establishes a particular point to a moral certainty and that it is beyond dispute that any reasonable alternative is possible. It does not mean that no doubt exists as to the accused's guilt, but only that no Reasonable Doubt is possible from the evidence presented. (more at link)

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Beyond+a+Reasonable+Doubt

 

[FigTree]

OMG ... because all people who are trusted and free to come and go as they please have/need video and text surveillance to make sure that they are coming and going as they please! :facepalm:

Does Strickland even hear how ridiculous this sounds?! But I guess he doesn't have a choice .. he accepted the job to defend this , and he has to say something.

Yes, nothing Strickland has said so far convinces me that SG was not the murderer of Lisa Harnum.

 

[FigTree]

Thanks for the updates Fuskier. I want to shake the s**t out of Strickland! Hasn't he seen this yet? It was presented in evidence.

View attachment 38833

Yes, agreed Makara!
He is bypassing the evidence.
He's sounding like SG.

.

 

[sleepinoz]

Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

Strickland for Gittany: 'there is evidence before your Honour that Lisa Harnum was volatile' @7NewsSydney

 

[sleepinoz]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 1m

Gittany's lawyer says they don't shy away from fact the surveillance and spying carried out by SG was totally intrusive. 'No Justification'

 

[sleepinoz]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 1m

Gittany's lawyer Phil Strickland on Lisa's mum Joan 'some of her evidence has been infected by an understandable bias against Simon Gittany'

 

[enzeder]

Thanks for the updates Fuskier. I want to shake the s**t out of Strickland! Hasn't he seen this yet? It was presented in evidence.

View attachment 38833

I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to receive a text like that. I wonder if he had one of those phone app's where he could watch what was happening at home when he was away?. How else would he know that Lisa was walking around the house like she owned it or coming and going without his permission?!?! - Monster! imo

"his surveillance so intense that Ms Harnum was "mystified" and thought him "a mind reader"
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s-caught-on-cctv/story-fni0cx12-1226743837046

 

[Fuskier]

It seems timely to re-post sections of a brilliant post by a WS member HAWKINS (another Thread) which spoke to the heart of violence against women:

"...the objectification of women is a vestigial sociological imperative that is well past its use-by-date. Women have been commodities in the physical, emotional and spiritual sense for many thousands of years. Very few people really appreciate the depth to which these subservient roles are ingrained. Violence towards women is still at epidemic levels in our community and this violence is not specific to any demographic.The levels of child sex abuse against girls is a national disgrace. Emotional violence and intimidation starts from a very young age, and many, many men humiliate their wives and female relatives without any sense that they are doing so. Any man who thinks that Australia is a society which has turned the corner and which provides equal expectations and opportunities for women should experience life from a woman's perspective for a while...
Violence against, and the objectification of, women is a deep social problem that is only vaguely recognised and addressed, despite ridiculous claims that women are now somehow mostly 'equal'...".

Public displays of affection may mask private violence and abuse. Abuse is done in private. The Judge would be expected to realise this important point. In this case, the victim was isolated and has now been silenced - but not without some independent supports with knowledge of her torment.

The Law needs to recognise and address violence against women more seriously through its sentancing power and this would convey an important message to our community.

 

[SouthAussie]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 1m

Gittany's lawyer Phil Strickland on Lisa's mum Joan 'some of her evidence has been infected by an understandable bias against Simon Gittany'

You better leave Lisa's mum out of this, Strickland! I think the judge knows that without saying - talk about add insult to injury! Grrrr .....

:bigfight:

 

[sleepinoz]

Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

Defence barrister is 'very confident he'll be finished by lunch tomorrow'. Judge expected to retire to consider Gittany verdict after that

 

[Fuskier]

Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

Strickland for Gittany: 'there is evidence before your Honour that Lisa Harnum was volatile' @7NewsSydney

Volatile is a word which can be used to magnify something which otherwise would be seen as a normal human reaction.

IMO in this case the use of the word 'volatile' blames the victim and attempts to magnify her reactions as emotionally unstable. Were these words used to 'magnify' Lisa's normal reactions to Gittany's abuse? Was there any independent evidence that Lisa was volatile?

Use of the word 'infected' by the Defence to the Prosecution's eye-witness's evidence and Lisa's mother's evidence aims to discredit their evidence as 'contaminated'.

We know they saw what they saw, recall what they were told and that Lisa's perceptions were accurate as demonstrated by the cameras, mobitech surveillance and monitoring of her; the note in her pocket and her fear of Gittany expressed to her counsellor and her mother and her accurate fear that her life may be in danger. She attempted to pack her bags and leave, booked flight tickets, but her escape was discovered, she forcibly restrained
and allegedly murdered.

Hopefully the Judge is experienced at Defense tactics and strategies to magnify, minimise and deflect in the interest of their client, but at a disservice to justice in the case. IMHO.

 

[Makara]

It seems timely to re-post sections of a brilliant post by a WS member HAWKINS (another Thread) which spoke to the heart of violence against women:

"...the objectification of women is a vestigial sociological imperative that is well past its use-by-date. Women haved been commodities in the physical, emotional and spiritual sense for many thousands of years. Very few people really appreciate the depth to which these subservient roles are ingrained. Violence towards women is still at epidemic levels in our community and this viiolence is not specific to any demographic.The levels of child sex abuse against girls is a national disgrace. Emotional violence and intimidation starts from a very young age, and many, many men humiliate their wives and female relatives without any sense that they are doing so. Any man who thinks that Australia is a society which has turned the corner and which provides equal expectations and opportunities for women should experience life from a woman's perspective for a while...
Violence against, and the objectification of, women is a deep social problem that is only vaguely recognised and addressed, despite ridiculous claims that women are now somehow mostly 'equal'...".

Public displays of affection may mask private violence and abuse. Abuse is done in private. The Judge would be expected to realise this important point. The victim has been silenced - but not without some independent supports with knowledge of her torment.

The Law needs to recognise and address violence against women more seriously through its sentancing power and this would convey an important message to our community.

Well said Fuskier. Thank you. And it's interesting to note that our beloved Hawkins is in fact a male.

 

[Brightbird]

This helped me to understand better what 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' means. :sigh:

From your post -

The standard that must be met by the prosecution's evidence in a criminal prosecution: that no other logical explanation can be derived from the facts except that the defendant committed the crime, thereby overcoming the presumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

If I understand it correctly, if there is any other plausible explanation for the evidence besides murder then the judge has to find not guilty. This isn't to say that murder isn't a plausible explanation as well, just that it isn't the only one. So the prosecution has to not only show that the facts point to murder, but that they point away from any other explanation.

I'm surprised to see that today the defence raised the idea that Lisa was trying to escape over the balcony - is this the first time it's been mentioned? I've run through the possible scenarios in my mind so many times, and that is the only one I find even remotely plausible as a motive for her to climb over the railing. But until I hear an explanation as to how there were none of her fingerprints, I still can't buy it. Heck, I've even considered whether she climbed over to escape and SG followed and pushed her.

 

[sleepinoz]

Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 2m

Can't rembr covering a case with so much public interest.Heaps of ppl coming up asking when there'll be a verdict.. offering their opinion..

 

[Makara]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 1m

Gittany's lawyer Phil Strickland on Lisa's mum Joan 'some of her evidence has been infected by an understandable bias against Simon Gittany'

Okay, now I'm angry! :furious: Scraping the bottom of the barrel now Strickland! :shutup: :tantrum: