GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

[SouthAussie]

Yes EveD - I spent about an hour googling today, trying to find the article, which I stumbled upon, just by chance a few times in the past 6 months or so, but it must have been removed recently then. Perhaps there was some concern about jeopardising the case.

I think they've restricted access to all of their pdf research documents ... when I try to open any of the research papers that are showing at vwt.org on Google search, they all say 'page not found'.

 

[they'll get you]

I've watched that video of him grabbing Lisa around the head, it reminds of those head high tackles used in rugby league. You can see in the vid how his arm comes swinging around just before he grabs her & clamps down around her face. From then on, in my opinion, he had her in a vice like grip, using both arms, rendering her incapable of moving at all. Hence he had no scratches anywhere.

I'm thinking that Lisa suffered threats and suffered the consequences. With people like SG NOTHING you do is good enough & anything small can tip them over. Was that balcony used before to subdue Lisa and make her behave? Did SG want to roll her onto the ledge to scare the tripe out of her and she actually rolled over. That's still murder. Stockholm syndrome victims believe their captor loves them and punishes them because they are loved. He may have wanted Lisa kept home because of bruising on her.
Lisa was about to escape. :banghead: NO!!!!
I was a little shocked to hear Lisa was only 30 because some of the close up shots showed strain on such a young beautiful face. I have a daughter that age and I am so so sorry for Joan Harnum to have lost such a precious sweet girl under such evil circumstances. No mother should endure pain like this. I'm sorry & embarrassed to think this animal is an Australian.
We mothers are united with your grief Joan Harnum. Our prayers are with you.

 

[EveD]

I think they've restricted access to all of their pdf research documents ... when I try to open any of the research papers that are showing at vwt.org on Google search, they all say 'page not found'.

I must admit when I found the pdf I wondered if they had somehow forgotten to restrict access to their articles/database as I was surprised it was accessible.

 

[SouthAussie]

It has made it into the NY Daily News .... comments underneath are interesting to read. I like the first comment (by PV) .. very appropriate.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-hidden-camera-caught-fight-fiancee-death-article-1.1491930

 

[KG1]

Don't know if I missed it - but was there ever an autopsy report presented to the court?

I ask because I think she was already deceased before he threw her over the balcony - I think she could have been suffocated or even had her neck broken from the hold he had on her, hence no scratch marks or any sign of her defending herself.

I have wondered long and hard about this. She may have been unconscious at the least, but then didn't Gittany give evidence that he tried to reach her on the ledge and she just looked at him? He implied in his evidence that she was consciously looking at him before she fell to the ground. I hope she was unconscious for her sake.

Anyway, who could believe a word of his version? Not me.

 

[marlywings]

Don't know if I missed it - but was there ever an autopsy report presented to the court?

I ask because I think she was already deceased before he threw her over the balcony - I think she could have been suffocated or even had her neck broken from the hold he had on her, hence no scratch marks or any sign of her defending herself.

As far as I recall there's not been a mention of an autopsy report throughout the trial as well as committal hearing.

This is probably all that's been published to date regarding her injuries.

October 26, 2013

The impact of seeing such a traumatic death has stayed with those who were on Liverpool St that morning. Dr Angus Gray was driving past the building when he saw Ms Harnum "lying on her side". "I'm sorry," the orthopaedic surgeon said as he remembered her "broken back, ribs and leg". The court heard the doctor, trying to resuscitate her with chest compressions, felt no pulse in Ms Harnum's body.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...r-was-she-pushed/story-fnii5s3x-1226747183885

There was apparently another video which showed Lisa's fall onto pavement but that was deemed too distressing to be published.

 

[enzeder]

I've watched that video of him grabbing Lisa around the head, it reminds of those head high tackles used in rugby league. You can see in the vid how his arm comes swinging around just before he grabs her & clamps down around her face. From then on, in my opinion, he had her in a vice like grip, using both arms, rendering her incapable of moving at all. Hence he had no scratches anywhere.

I've just been watching that dreadful video....again. Lisa had barely escaped the apt and he was right there behind her. She didn't stand a chance.

 

[marlywings]

I'm thinking that Lisa suffered threats and suffered the consequences. With people like SG NOTHING you do is good enough & anything small can tip them over. Was that balcony used before to subdue Lisa and make her behave? Did SG want to roll her onto the ledge to scare the tripe out of her and she actually rolled over. That's still murder. Stockholm syndrome victims believe their captor loves them and punishes them because they are loved. He may have wanted Lisa kept home because of bruising on her.

Lisa was about to escape. :banghead: NO!!!!
I was a little shocked to hear Lisa was only 30 because some of the close up shots showed strain on such a young beautiful face. I have a daughter that age and I am so so sorry for Joan Harnum to have lost such a precious sweet girl under such evil circumstances. No mother should endure pain like this. I'm sorry & embarrassed to think this animal is an Australian.
We mothers are united with your grief Joan Harnum. Our prayers are with you.

BBM
Good point TGY....it could also account for her wearing long pants, jumper in that video of her at the gym. Perhaps that was to hide previous bruising.

Also agree re Lisa's mum. Thoughts & prayers continue to go out to her.

 

[marlywings]

I have wondered long and hard about this. She may have been unconscious at the least, but then didn't Gittany give evidence that he tried to reach her on the ledge and she just looked at him? He implied in his evidence that she was consciously looking at him before she fell to the ground. I hope she was unconscious for her sake.

Anyway, who could believe a word of his version? Not me.

I think he gave a couple of versions....

November 07, 2013

Gittany said. "She fell off, let go. I have no idea, she just disappeared."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...h-of-lisa-harnum/story-fni0fee2-1226754088889

November 5, 2013

"I screamed out her name in despair. I kept my eyes on her until she hit the ground."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-git...lisa-harnum-20131105-2wydm.html#ixzz2jwJddyTt

What's that old quote that goes something like...if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything....hmmmm.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not sure that Lisa was killed or unconscious before she was thrown :cry:

There is this testimony from the neighbour ... sounds as though Lisa may have screamed as he picked her up to throw her over, or as he threw her.

Susan Glanville gave evidence at Mr Gittany's murder trial on Monday and said she recalled hearing two sets of screams as she was tidying her unit.

"It was a real, loud scream, like [an] 'I'm afraid' scream," Ms Glanville said.
She said she remembered seeing her door shaking and the raised voice of a man.
"And then it [the screaming] stopped dead," she said.

Sometime later she heard a second scream that sounded like a woman's.
"A very, really, piercing scream," she said.
Ms Glanville told the court she thought the scream had come from outside.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-git...lcony-death-20131104-2wvsi.html#ixzz2kiJEUJdn

 

[JudgeJudy]

My own opinion.....If a person is found guilty, particularly in long drawn out trials, I believe the guilty party should have their assets seized and made to pay for the expenses incurred by the innocent party and / or their family. I wonder how Joan (Lisa's mother) is coping (financially) with costs of flights, fares, accommodation etc and whether there is some sort of funding for her. We don't often think about the cost to the family, apart from the obvious emotional devastation of losing their loved one, but jobs either get put on hold or just given up on because of the turmoil. The person who is found to have caused it, should pay something toward the financial burden as well as loss of their freedom.

 

[SouthAussie]

As far as I recall there's not been a mention of an autopsy report throughout the trial as well as committal hearing.

This is probably all that's been published to date regarding her injuries.

October 26, 2013

The impact of seeing such a traumatic death has stayed with those who were on Liverpool St that morning. Dr Angus Gray was driving past the building when he saw Ms Harnum "lying on her side". "I'm sorry," the orthopaedic surgeon said as he remembered her "broken back, ribs and leg". The court heard the doctor, trying to resuscitate her with chest compressions, felt no pulse in Ms Harnum's body.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...r-was-she-pushed/story-fnii5s3x-1226747183885

There was apparently another video which showed Lisa's fall onto pavement but that was deemed too distressing to be published.

This is the only mention of the autopsy that I recall ... when speaking of the torn up 'surveillance cameras inside' note.

Detective Margaret Ashburn, who was present at Ms Harnum's autopsy, told the trial she put the pieces of paper together.

http://m.news.com.au/upc/4125/TopStories/pg/2/fi8851711.htm

 

[sleepinoz]

This is the only mention of the autopsy that I recall ... when speaking of the torn up 'surveillance cameras inside' note.



http://m.news.com.au/upc/4125/TopStories/pg/2/fi8851711.htm

Maybe they think the COD is just so obvious that they didn't discuss, but it would be interesting to know exactly.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe they think the COD is just so obvious that they didn't discuss, but it would be interesting to know exactly.

I guess the report must have been entered into evidence, but not really spoken about, other than Strickland saying that Lisa had none of SG's DNA under her fingernails ... unless he was 'confused' about that too. :waitasec:

And none of the accused's DNA was found underneath the finger nails of the deceased.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/no-eviden...tells-court-20131114-2xign.html#ixzz2kiNA6Yun

 

[enzeder]

I'm not sure that Lisa was killed or unconscious before she was thrown :cry:

There is this testimony from the neighbour ... sounds as though Lisa may have screamed as he picked her up to throw her over, or as he threw her.



http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-git...lcony-death-20131104-2wvsi.html#ixzz2kiJEUJdn

I'm not sure either SouthAussie. Maybe Lisa was paralyzed with fear?. The neighbour Mrs G. said she heard a woman's "piercing scream" coming from outside. The two balcony's are quite close to each other, within hearing distance for sure, as you can see in the attached image. You can see Lisa's exercise machine on her balcony and the neighbor's balcony is on the left of of Lisa's in the photo.

Mon 4 Nov 2013

She said her front door was shaking and she also heard a man yelling, and then silence.

Minutes later Mrs Glanville said she heard a woman's "piercing scream" coming from outside and soon after there were sirens everywhere.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-04/woman-screamed-27god-help-me27-before-balcony-fall/5067638

Wayne Steel, a City of Sydney labourer, was working near Museum Railway Station just metres from the block that Saturday morning.

"I thought it was a squawk, I thought it was a bird," he told Gittany's trial on Wednesday.

"Like an `argh' then something hit.

"Straight after it, there was a thud. At first I thought it was a car accident."

Another council employee, Paul Baker, was working opposite the building, in Hyde Park.

He said he first heard a "groan" or an "argh".

"It was very brief, I thought it was a bird."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/10/30/16/02/workers-thought-screams-were-a-bird-court

 

[JudgeJudy]

You would think the Coroner would need to supply information about the cause of death if able to. I would think that it would have to be a very important piece of information, regardless that a fall at that height would more than likely end in death. If a person is suffocated, there would be some indication with the lungs, if strangled, perhaps marks around the neck or internal bruising in the neck etc etc... However, if a person was knocked unconscious (eg. king hit) and then their body is left to impact the ground from a great height, then it's unlikely that a firm determination could be made (for obvious reasons), I guess. I did read somewhere in one of the hundreds of reports, that her fall may have been broken (interrupted) by perhaps hitting another railing / ledge ? So, if that is true, then even though she may have been conscious at first (?), it may have been short lived afterall. I don't mean to seem cold in my comments - I'm just speculating of course and I really feel very sad for LCH and very angered by the circumstances she found herself in. I also feel very angry at the supporters of SG, whether family, friends or professionals.

 

[SouthAussie]

I've just been watching that dreadful video....again. Lisa had barely escaped the apt and he was right there behind her. She didn't stand a chance.

I like the names of your thumbnail files, enzeder. They are spot on!

(The names are visible when not logged on.)

 

[enzeder]

I like the names of your thumbnail files, enzeder. They are spot on!

(The names are visible when not logged on.)

lol

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not sure either SouthAussie. Maybe Lisa was paralyzed with fear?. The neighbour Mrs G. said she heard a woman's "piercing scream" coming from outside. The two balcony's are quite close to each other, within hearing distance for sure, as you can see in the attached image. You can see Lisa's exercise machine on her balcony and the neighbor's balcony is on the left of of Lisa's in the photo.

Wayne Steel, a City of Sydney labourer, was working near Museum Railway Station just metres from the block that Saturday morning.

"I thought it was a squawk, I thought it was a bird," he told Gittany's trial on Wednesday.

"Like an `argh' then something hit.

"Straight after it, there was a thud. At first I thought it was a car accident."

Another council employee, Paul Baker, was working opposite the building, in Hyde Park.

He said he first heard a "groan" or an "argh".

"It was very brief, I thought it was a bird."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...e-a-bird-court

I think that Lisa could have been quite injured during the fall, hence the groans .. witnesses reported hearing a series of crashing sounds ... probably as she collided with the awnings on the way down.

That b@#%@#d .... how could anyone do that to another living creature, let alone a person that you supposedly 'love'!!!!! Breaks my heart - I cannot even begin to imagine how Lisa's (real) loved ones feel.

 

[KG1]

I think he gave a couple of versions....

November 07, 2013

Gittany said. "She fell off, let go. I have no idea, she just disappeared."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...h-of-lisa-harnum/story-fni0fee2-1226754088889

November 5, 2013

"I screamed out her name in despair. I kept my eyes on her until she hit the ground."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-git...lisa-harnum-20131105-2wydm.html#ixzz2jwJddyTt

What's that old quote that goes something like...if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything....hmmmm.

My mother always said to us as children - 'Liars have to have good memories'