GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

[MsAnais]

Interesting. The newspaper has changed the photo. It is now Lisa Harnum. Previously it was a photo of Rachel Louise standing by a car, wearing a car t-shirt with her cleavage & abdomen exposed.

Ah, I know that photo of RL. Classy!!

 

[LadyBird1]

Interesting. The newspaper has changed the photo. It is now Lisa Harnum. Previously it was a photo of Rachel Louise standing by a car, wearing a car t-shirt with her cleavage & abdomen exposed.

You are right! The photo has been changed within the last hour, interesting.
The previous photo was a bit ambiguous, looked a bit like RL with all abdomen showing and very well-endowed.

 

[bearbear]

yes they have changed the first photo, it was an unflattering photo of rl standing awkwardly in front of a car with a bare stomach, maybe she complained, not great publicity to have your photo featuring in a violence against women article!

 

[SouthAussie]

When I read through the link I just felt really sorry for Lisa's mum. Some of the conversations she was trying to recall but without a date they were not admissible. I guess at the time you wouldn't think to note these things down because you would never in a million years expect to be in this situation.

I know what you mean jamie233 ... and it speaks loudly of Lisa's mum's honesty. If it were someone else (like SG, IMO), they'd probably just look at their phone bills, see when they spoke to Lisa, and say the conversation happened on that date - whether it did or not.

This would assist in confirming the accuracy and validity of everything Lisa's mum was allowed to say in her testimony, I would think.

 

[JudgeJudy]

Yes - that photo has now changed to LH - Phew ! I thought for a second it was just me.....Funny though - perhaps the editor had trouble telling them apart ??

:gasp:

 

[SouthAussie]

interesting article and references this case as an example....
Intimidating, violent, obsessive: the men who 'control' women
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...ho-control-women/story-fnet09p2-1226764275835

Really good article ... makes me wonder if Tedeschi had someone like Elspeth McInnes or Betty Green as an expert witness for the prosecution, to testify about the 'danger time' when a controlled woman tries to leave the relationship.

 

[madamehdivision]

Any word on when Her Honour will be ready to hand down her judgment? I'm pretty tied up with the McStay case atm and haven't given much attention to this one, sadly

 

[montycooper]

What I really liked about this article was 'so he had a bad childhood?' .. 'People make choices'. Because, yes, I ponder what sort of an upbringing these men have had and often you can trace it back to trauma, witnessing trauma and thinking it natural, or even cultural differences or cultural clash. And cases where an abuser has had a relatively 'normal' upbringing, I wonder 'what have your family taught you about women, what sort of an example have your parents / family set for you'? But the truth is that many children experience unimaginable trauma or to a far lesser extent are taught a questionable values and yet they grow into perfectly kind, honest and decent members of society. As adults there comes a time when we have to stop placing blame and take full responsibility for our actions.

 

[montycooper]

Hi madamehdivision, last Friday 15th the trial finished, and they said about 1 and a half -2 weeks for the Judge to deliver her verdict. Longest 2 weeks ever!

 

[madamehdivision]

Hi madamehdivision, last Friday 15th the trial finished, and they said about 1 and a half -2 weeks for the Judge to deliver her verdict. Longest 2 weeks ever!

Hi monty, I knew a fortnight was the approximation, but was just wondering whether we had an update on that. I just hope SG is enjoying his new digs while he can. Remand is a resort compared to prison.

 

[SouthAussie]

This article says the verdict will be delivered 'in a little over a week' ....

"There is no jury in the trial and a verdict will be handed down by Justice Lucy McCallum.
She has now retired to consider her verdict, with a decision expected in a little over a week."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...ial3a-lisa-harnum-27impulse27-to-clim/5094764


This one says 'up to two weeks' ....

"Mr Gittany's month-long murder trial finished on Friday afternoon and it could take up to two weeks for a judge to decide whether he killed his fiancee by throwing her from the balcony of the apartment they shared on July 30, 2011."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/simo...nam-to-fall-20131115-2xm7f.html#ixzz2lAPPqW2e


And I'm sure I read one that said 'not before next Monday and up to two weeks' ... but I can't find the link now.

So, fingers crossed, it will be next week :crossfingers: .

And I hope that the judge also visits the apartment and sees how high that balcony enclosure is, especially if a person tried to climb it in under 69secs without leaving fingerprints and with their handbag dangling from their arm/shoulder, and walks through the park to see how very clearly Joshua saw what happened.

 

[Flinders]

This article says the verdict will be delivered 'in a little over a week' ....



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...ial3a-lisa-harnum-27impulse27-to-clim/5094764


This one says 'up to two weeks' ....



http://www.smh.com.au/national/simo...nam-to-fall-20131115-2xm7f.html#ixzz2lAPPqW2e


And I'm sure I read one that said 'not before next Monday and up to two weeks' ... but I can't find the link now.

So, fingers crossed, it will be next week :crossfingers: .

And I hope that the judge also visits the apartment and sees how high that balcony enclosure is, especially if a person tried to climb it in under 69secs without leaving fingerprints and with their handbag dangling from their arm/shoulder, and walks through the park to see how very clearly Joshua saw what happened.

Sorry Guys, The bad humour on Twitter is that she will take 14 years to hand her decision. Best result for him. SHE hahaha....

The time is up to the Judge and the time she has allowed considering other cases.

Moo

 

[Makara]

What I really liked about this article was 'so he had a bad childhood?' .. 'People make choices'. Because, yes, I ponder what sort of an upbringing these men have had and often you can trace it back to trauma, witnessing trauma and thinking it natural, or even cultural differences or cultural clash. And cases where an abuser has had a relatively 'normal' upbringing, I wonder 'what have your family taught you about women, what sort of an example have your parents / family set for you'? But the truth is that many children experience unimaginable trauma or to a far lesser extent are taught a questionable values and yet they grow into perfectly kind, honest and decent members of society. As adults there comes a time when we have to stop placing blame and take full responsibility for our actions.

:goodpost: The thanks button just wasn't enough for your post. I totally agree with everything you've said.

This article says the verdict will be delivered 'in a little over a week' ....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...ial3a-lisa-harnum-27impulse27-to-clim/5094764

This one says 'up to two weeks' ....

http://www.smh.com.au/national/simo...nam-to-fall-20131115-2xm7f.html#ixzz2lAPPqW2e


And I'm sure I read one that said 'not before next Monday and up to two weeks' ... but I can't find the link now.

So, fingers crossed, it will be next week :crossfingers: .

And I hope that the judge also visits the apartment and sees how high that balcony enclosure is, especially if a person tried to climb it in under 69secs without leaving fingerprints and with their handbag dangling from their arm/shoulder, and walks through the park to see how very clearly Joshua saw what happened.

BBM:

SA my understanding is that the attached pic shows Justice Lucy, Strickland and Tedeschi inspecting the balcony. The glass panels look to be about chest height on all three of them. Flying leap my *advertiser censored**e!



http://www.auscrimes.com/gittany-closing-statements-given-evidence-in-photos/

 

[FigTree]

I read somewhere the possibility of up to 5 weeks before a decision (I think it is back in the thread - cant look now, sorry).


.

 

[they'll get you]

This article says the verdict will be delivered 'in a little over a week' ....



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...ial3a-lisa-harnum-27impulse27-to-clim/5094764


This one says 'up to two weeks' ....



http://www.smh.com.au/national/simo...nam-to-fall-20131115-2xm7f.html#ixzz2lAPPqW2e


And I'm sure I read one that said 'not before next Monday and up to two weeks' ... but I can't find the link now.

So, fingers crossed, it will be next week :crossfingers: .

And I hope that the judge also visits the apartment and sees how high that balcony enclosure is, especially if a person tried to climb it in under 69secs without leaving fingerprints and with their handbag dangling from their arm/shoulder, and walks through the park to see how very clearly Joshua saw what happened.

I agree SouthAussie that judges should be more involved. I've been a witness in court and the incident I saw was imprinted in my mind & nothing could sway me and it remains vivid to this day. Joshua Rathmell seemed a young, astute fellow who was adamant when speaking with the police in the park, I understand people can be rattled with nerves but it's surprising how people can be 'swung' so easily by these bombastic lawyers & then question themselves what they actually saw. That horrific sight would have a lasting effect on you Josh, thank you for coming forward as I'm sure there were others that day that didn't.

Could SG's attitude be a religious based fanaticism? He had issues with Lisa's hair being down & wanting her more covered, making her submit & trying to convert her or is it just his personality disorder. Due to firm religious beliefs, do judges bend a little? (Not for murder of course)

Something's not sitting right. Did the psychiatrist tell the police when she was threatened, if not, why not? I think she had a duty of care. Lisa could have stood by SG if the police were called in but she could be alive today with some support. Kind of a Stockholm syndrome?
I'm so saddened by all this violence!

 

[LadyBird1]

This looks like an open and shut case to me. I have been reading and listening to all MSM reports.
Here's the nuts and bolts of the matter as I see it.

Simon Gittany says he was making a coffee when Lisa leaped over the 15th story balcony. (Ballerinas apparently do that sort of thing with ease.)
That's his defence. (He did not murder Lisa)

An independent witness Joshua Rathmell SAW the deranged screaming shirtless man (who later turned out to be Simon Gittany) unload something from the balcony. That something turned out to Lisa Harnum.

So, either Simon Gittany is Lying or Joshua Rathmell is lying.

Because the two versions of events are completely and utterly at odds with each other.

There is not one single other witness who can corroborate Simon Gittany's version of events.

There IS evidence, that evidences have been tampered with, destroyed etc. (Notably hard drive from surveillance footage)

Regarding Joshua Rathmell, is he a credible witness? (Editor for ABC.)

Regarding Simon Gittany, is he a credible witness? Has he been caught out LYING ever?

BTW thank you Bearbear for the link http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rel...-1226764275835
Much appreciated.

Regarding surveillance cameras. That information might not have come to light but for the torn note in Lisa's pants pocket. Good work Lisa.
Lisa finally figured what he was capable of. This was her last cry for help.

 

[LadyBird1]

I think what angers me most about these creatures, both GBC and SC, is they appear to know every angle of the Law, intimately.
How to wheedle out of a charge if that charge might cause extended imprisonment, becomes their primary objective.
Being charged with murder requires vigorous denial at all costs. It's how the Law views the matter; that's the all important thing.
Honesty, integrity, morality and justice gets tossed out the window during all this.
The victim becomes completely irrelevant. Except to denigrate her to pieces. Her "mental instability" needs to be established. Any trumped up stuff will do to prove this. Even if all is a fabricated. A little bit of truth, twisted, screwed and slewed will be the basis for this. That he might be grossly mental unstable becomes irrelevant. In fact he can't even see this. Apparently his Lawyers can't either.
At Kingsthorpe near Toowoomba 2008, A husband was acquitted of shooting his wife, because he said he was "hunting a snake."
The husband told authorities investigating the incident his gun accidentally discharged when the snake slithered over his feet and he was startled.
How convenient. He was actually believed. (Proper motive for killing not found) Believe it or not.
Seems it is not the truth that counts, but how a clever Lawyer can make someone guilty, look innocent. That is the crux of the matter.

 

[montycooper]

In addition to reporting the threats to the police, I also hope that Lisa's counsellor tried to discourage her from confronting SG about leaving. Iv'e heard before about the risk of abuse escalating out of control when a person tries to leave an abusive relationship. If I've heard of it, surely a professional counsellor would be well aware of the danger. Also, I can't quite understand the timeline: from what Iv'e read, the counsellor received the threatening phone call in the days leading up to Lisa's death, yet she had time to move?

Thank you Makara!!

 

[SouthAussie]

In addition to reporting the threats to the police, I also hope that Lisa's counsellor tried to discourage her from confronting SG about leaving. Iv'e heard before about the risk of abuse escalating out of control when a person tries to leave an abusive relationship. If I've heard of it, surely a professional counsellor would be well aware of the danger. Also, I can't quite understand the timeline: from what Iv'e read, the counsellor received the threatening phone call in the days leading up to Lisa's death, yet she had time to move?

Thank you Makara!!

From what I have read, the counsellor was threatened and 'subsequently' moved. I don't think that means she moved right away, but possibly had a fear of SG's associates, and probably was particularly afraid when SG got out on bail later. Especially if she knew she was going to testify.

So much for 'no harm to the community' being one of the reasons he got out on bail!!

She said she took the threat seriously as Gittany did know where she lived and she "subsequently moved house".

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...efore-her-death/story-fni0cx4q-1226745488098#

 

[MsAnais]

In addition to reporting the threats to the police, I also hope that Lisa's counsellor tried to discourage her from confronting SG about leaving. Iv'e heard before about the risk of abuse escalating out of control when a person tries to leave an abusive relationship. If I've heard of it, surely a professional counsellor would be well aware of the danger. Also, I can't quite understand the timeline: from what Iv'e read, the counsellor received the threatening phone call in the days leading up to Lisa's death, yet she had time to move?

Thank you Makara!!

Good point Montycooper!!

It depends what kind of therapist Lisa's counsellor was.....I can't remember reading their title. eg psychiatrist, psychologist or just counsellor??

I say 'just counsellor', not because that means therefore they're not a good therapist, but because there is no unified governing body for counsellors like there is for psychiatrists and psychologists.......anyone can legally call themselves a counsellor or psychotherapist in this country. They could have done a one-day course! (which I find alarming because you hold a lot of power in the therapist position and people are usually emotionally vulnerable when they come to see you)

Let's hope that Lisa's counsellor had good qualifications and knew how to deal with domestic violence lease: