GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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"On Friday the Crown made last minute application to have Mr Gittany's bail revoked, because he had finished giving evidence.
Justice Lucy McCallum continued his bail but it is expected the prosecution will apply to have him taken back into custody before the end of the trial."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/balc...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2cwLvIw


The good news is that Tedeschi is not going to give up trying to have SG's bail revoked.
I think it is ridiculous that he is out on bail in the first place .... needed for photocopying, indeed! Pffft!
 
"On Friday the Crown made last minute application to have Mr Gittany's bail revoked, because he had finished giving evidence.
Justice Lucy McCallum continued his bail but it is expected the prosecution will apply to have him taken back into custody before the end of the trial."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/balc...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2cwLvIw


The good news is that Tedeschi is not going to give up trying to have SG's bail revoked.
I think it is ridiculous that he is out on bail in the first place .... needed for photocopying, indeed! Pffft!

Alrighty then. If I ever get in court I will have studied a course in photocopying. But I am ambitious, I will include tea making for the distressed. Do we add a plain bickie or a timtam?
 
In the SMH article linked above, something stood out to me and I quote '
Barbara Gittany also cried as she gave evidence to the judge alone trial on Friday.
She told the court her brother returned to the family home in Merrylands.
He rocked back and forth on a lounge and repeatedly said: "Baby, baby, baby, what were you thinking?" and "why does it hurt so much?"'
It seems like the defence will milk the 'suicide' assertion for all it is worth throughout and of course family will support him to this end. Maybe he has made out to family that he is innocent also, but they must know.
Also the brother's friend who was given the hard drive - how reliable is his evidence? He is not an independent witness by any stretch. If there was nothing incriminating on the hard drive, why did it remain unfound for so long? Curiouser and curiouser. I think there is a real risk of flight with this accused and his bail should be revoked. The judge who granted bail in the first place granted it on very weak 'special circumstances' and it should not have happened. I guess the surety of $600,000 helped sway the balance. Other accused murderers don't receive the same concessions. I hope that the prosecutor continues to ask for revocation of bail every day of the trial.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/balc...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2iYAnTI
 
I think there is a real risk of flight with this accused and his bail should be revoked. The judge who granted bail in the first place granted it on very weak 'special circumstances' and it should not have happened. I guess the surety of $600,000 helped sway the balance. Other accused murderers don't receive the same concessions. I hope that the prosecutor continues to ask for revocation of bail every day of the trial.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/balc...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2iYAnTI


RSBM

I agree KG1 - he's a big flight risk IMO. And I think Crown Prosecutor Tedeschi may think the same thing. And maybe even the judge too ... seeing that he now has to stay home, report to police twice a day, provide his phone numbers to police (I hope they are watching him!)

Superior attitude, tears at the thought of a long jail term, no respect for police/authority.

He handed in his passport, apparently, when he was granted bail - but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll stay put. I believe he is of Lebanese descent, so he may well have extended family elsewhere - where the Aussie govt has no means of getting his extradition back to Australia.
 
I’d also like to know where his money comes from. And can he get plenty more if he secretly needed it?

He comes from Merrylands … not a particularly affluent suburb.
He delivers health products to fitness fanatics … one wouldn’t think that was a particularly lucrative business.
And yet he could afford to live in Apt 1503 The Hyde Apartments … which sold for $1,150,000 in 2009, then was perhaps sold again in May 2010 for an undisclosed amount.

“She told the court her brother returned to the family home in Merrylands.”

http://www.smh.com.au/national/balc...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2ldpglY


“1503/187 Liverpool Street, Sydney - Sold $1,150,000 in June 2009” (their typo - should say 157 Liverpool St)

http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Sydney&sta=nsw&id=1576839


“Sold Date: Thu 13-May-10 - Apt 1503,157 Liverpool Street 'The Hyde' Sydney”

http://colliers.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-nsw-sydney-106339207


Merrylands Demographics (NSW) Local Stats

http://localstats.qpzm.com.au/stats/nsw/sydney/parramatta/merrylands
 
Hi ggeorge & welcome to Websleuths...nice to have you on board :)

I guess I should also address this question to all members in Lisa's thread.

With all we've been told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??

ETA: If anyone dares to say "the kettle"...welllllll Kimster sometimes lends me her zapper :D:

Hey! Thanks for having me. An ex ended up breaking off with me to pursue a career opportunity in Sydney and ended up moving into The Hyde in 2010, thus my interest in this case. Not to mention how tragic everything in this case is.

The most compelling piece of evidence is the pinhole camera. By far. Combined with the deceased screaming for help, the video footage seconds later showing what appears to be the defendant forcibly assaulting and restraining the deceased is damning. Even a judge would find that screenshot of the hand over mouth chilling. With that screenshot, a judge will doubt the claim that the deceased and defendant immediately sat down for tea, and the trier of fact (in this case, the judge) can establish that there was emotional distress on both sides. Without the camera footage, there is no evidence of a crime (the camera footage is the only tangible evidence of any crime), there is little context as to why the deceased would be banging on her neighbor's door and therefore there would be zero indicators that a criminal offense was imminent, beyond the eyewitness testimony. In other words, the footage compliments the theory that the defendant threw his fiance over the balcony out of malice.

The eyewitness testimony, like all eyewitness testimony, is unreliable. Aside from the distance, weather, and obstructions, brains are weird things. Eyewitness testimony is not useless, but unreliable on its own. The brain is the one organ part of our body scientists still do not fully understand. The eyewitness testimony was useful in establishing that possibly something was pushed over (creating doubt that the deceased stepped over), the deceased hit the ground, and (most importantly) that the defendant appeared to be on the balcony around the time of the deceased's death. By the way, the testimony from that young eyewitness moving to the USA was solid. Either he's a lawyer, understands legal logic, or he was briefed by the prosecution very well. He understood that his memory is not infallible, but stood by it. Not many eyewitnesses are that confident yet understand the limitations of eyewitness testimony. A lot of eyewitnesses utterly crumble under examination when the idea that what they saw didn't actually happen is floated. Criminal defense attorneys love cases that rely heavily on eyewitnesses for this reason :loveyou:. And it demonstrates how fallible eyewitness testimony can be: if someone can talk you into doubting what you saw, how do you know you're not talking yourself into having seen something?

I also LOL'd (then became depressed and said out loud: "what a peculiar system") that journalists "ambushing" (ie: interviewing) a defendant would result in a judge summoning the manger of those journalists to answer to court. The notion of a journalist answering to a judge gives me chills. I guess Australia doesn't have a very free press, or am I over reacting to wonky, French-like restrictions on how defendants in criminal trials may be portrayed in the media? It was also really amazing that the term "ambushing" was used in a newspaper article in a fashion that the reader would automatically know what it means (I sure as hell didn't; I thought he was assaulted or someone yelled insults at him).
 
Call me cynical, but I think the media loves to publish photos that fuel speculation. Photos of the happy couple one day, trouble in paradise the next. I have no idea if it's an accurate representation of their dynamic or if the media is being a little creative with their narrative.

I've been called cynical all my life, so I don't even know if believe myself. Lol. But you're right, it's very interesting and I hope it's true that SG is getting really rattled.

875596-92b57d12-4805-11e3-add9-a931c5f36f4d.jpg


This is one of those times where 'frown lines' are important ;)
Even with (lets say) 'Restricted Expression' its not hard to see the tension trying to break the laws of nature here.
JMO...

.
 
By the way, the testimony from that young eyewitness moving to the USA was solid. Either he's a lawyer, understands legal logic, or he was briefed by the prosecution very well.

The notion of a journalist answering to a judge gives me chills. .

RSBM

(long post ... sorry ... but some info for ggeorge ......)

The witness works at ABC's Ultimo office (government owned TV/radio .. serious, no commercials, etc), where he works as an editor. Pretty credible type of person.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...rown-off-balcony/story-e6frg6nf-1226746022058


In Oz we have sub judice:

"From the time somebody is arrested, charged or a warrant is issued, up to the moment when the court finishes dealing with it, the case is said to be sub judice. This is a Latin phrase meaning "under judgment". While a case is sub judice, you are strictly limited as to what you can report.

You may only give details of what is happening officially within the legal process. In practice this means only information which is part of a charge or details which are part of actual court proceedings. You may also mention some details which are not likely to be contested in court.

Several kinds of reports while a case is sub judice may prejudice a fair trial. One has already been mentioned - publishing details of the defendant's previous convictions.

Another is broadcasting details of the background of the case. Whenever there is a big trial, reporters gather together details of the defendant's past life and other background information, ready to publish them at the end of the trial. Once the trial is over, and is no longer sub judice, then all this material can be reported. However, if any of it is published during the trial it may be held to prejudice a fair trial.

If there is no jury, then what is published or broadcast is not so likely to prejudice a fair trial, since the judge will be more able to ignore it. Nevertheless, even in trials without juries there are limits to what will be tolerated and care should be taken not to interfere with the proper course of justice."

http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_03.html
 
I guess Australia doesn't have a very free press, or am I over reacting to wonky, French-like restrictions on how defendants in criminal trials may be portrayed in the media? It was also really amazing that the term "ambushing" was used in a newspaper article in a fashion that the reader would automatically know what it means (I sure as hell didn't; I thought he was assaulted or someone yelled insults at him).

I dont think we have a 'free press' when it comes to trials do we? Certainly in some states information is suppressed and social media sites have created havoc with people being worried that trials will result in mistrials due to publicity etc. Someone please 'invite' an Australian legal professional (I know there are some handing around Websleuths) to comment on this case as I would really like to know their opinion of the judge-only trial and also the 'free press' issue. but having said that, I dont think we have a 'free-press'....I just would really love to have some 'professional opinion' (no offense to anyone) on these issues.

A bit off topic, but i think ggeorge i saw that you are from the US. I think (but I could be incorrect) that in Australia we actually dont have a 'freedom of speech' to the extent that those in the US do. But I could be wrong as I am not sure where I have got that notion from.
 
I’d also like to know where his money comes from. And can he get plenty more if he secretly needed it?

He comes from Merrylands … not a particularly affluent suburb.
He delivers health products to fitness fanatics … one wouldn’t think that was a particularly lucrative business.
And yet he could afford to live in Apt 1503 The Hyde Apartments … which sold for $1,150,000 in 2009, then was perhaps sold again in May 2010 for an undisclosed amount.

“She told the court her brother returned to the family home in Merrylands.”

http://www.smh.com.au/national/balc...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2ldpglY


“1503/187 Liverpool Street, Sydney - Sold $1,150,000 in June 2009” (their typo - should say 157 Liverpool St)

http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Sydney&sta=nsw&id=1576839


“Sold Date: Thu 13-May-10 - Apt 1503,157 Liverpool Street 'The Hyde' Sydney”

http://colliers.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-nsw-sydney-106339207


Merrylands Demographics (NSW) Local Stats

http://localstats.qpzm.com.au/stats/nsw/sydney/parramatta/merrylands

My childhood years were spent not very far from Merrylands, and most of what you are saying here is correct. I might also mention that the Ibrahim family are from this area.
 
My childhood years were spent not very far from Merrylands, and most of what you are saying here is correct. I might also mention that the Ibrahim family are from this area.

This Ibrahim family?? :scared:

John Houssam Ibrahim (born 25 August 1970 in Sydney, Australia) a Lebanese Australian, is a Kings Cross nightclub owner. Police allege Ibrahim is a "major organised-crime figure" and was labelled as the "lifeblood of the drugs industry of Kings Cross" during the 1995 Wood royal commission however, Ibrahim strongly denies being involved in the drug trade and organised crime.

John Ibrahim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
This Ibrahim family??

John Houssam Ibrahim (born 25 August 1970 in Sydney, Australia, a Lebanese Australian, is a Kings Cross nightclub owner. Police allege Ibrahim is a "major organised-crime figure"[2] and was labelled as the "lifeblood of the drugs industry of Kings Cross" during the 1995 Wood royal commission however, Ibrahim strongly denies being involved in the drug trade and organised crime.

John Ibrahim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's one of them - one of the others is/was head of the Nomad OMCG
 
the one thing that crossed my mind with regards to his income, and it is totally unrelated to his 'alleged crime' is that if he catered to 'high end athletes' then perhaps that would be not only include legal substances but also illegal and/or imported substances. I dont know much about that sort of thing, but i have heard that some of these substances used by fitness fanatics to increase muscle etc can cause 'rage'......just a thought.
 
the one thing that crossed my mind with regards to his income, and it is totally unrelated to his 'alleged crime' is that if he catered to 'high end athletes' then perhaps that would be not only include legal substances but also illegal and/or imported substances. I dont know much about that sort of thing, but i have heard that some of these substances used by fitness fanatics to increase muscle etc can cause 'rage'......just a thought.

"High" end indeed ;) ;)

But yes I know what you mean, though I don't know much about it either. Isn't it drugs that increase testosterone, like steroids, that can make people rage? :dunno: My impression is that SG is unstable enough without chemical enhancement.

<modsnip>
 
I find it amusing that RL was in Underbelly - The Golden Mile in which one of the characters portrayed was John Ibrahim, who grew up in the same town as Gittany. Just my mind working overtime I think.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...tands-by-her-man/story-fni0cx12-1226745590668

The Daily Telegraph can reveal Louise is a freelance actress and model who once appeared in Underbelly: The Golden Mile.


OT … and not saying this is related to SG (or RL), but in speaking of the Ibrahims …. and Merrylands ....

“The original addressed proposed - his parents’ Merrylands home - was deemed unsuitable because the officers who must monitor him in the community had indicated a fear of being shot when visiting.”

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/ibrahim-a...000-mistake-20130719-2q99x.html#ixzz2k3HNFGyw
 
OT … and not saying this is related to SG (or RL), but in speaking of the Ibrahims …. and Merrylands ....

“The original addressed proposed - his parents’ Merrylands home - was deemed unsuitable because the officers who must monitor him in the community had indicated a fear of being shot when visiting.”

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/ibrahim-a...000-mistake-20130719-2q99x.html#ixzz2k3HNFGyw

Yes there has been many drive by shootings in the general area recently - many gang related.
 
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