Marg from Oz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2013
- Messages
- 63,847
- Reaction score
- 10,726
GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #3
- Thread starter marlywings
- Start date
New Posts
-
PA PA - Tracy Kroh, 17, Millersburg, 5 Aug 1989 *perjury convictions*
- Latest: Unalienable Rights
- Status
And still no word about RL visiting SG in prison! In fact, she seems to have disappeared....no longer on Facebook either. What should we make of it? Has she come to her senses and is she regretting her association with a murderer or is he dictating to her from prison that she is not to leave the house without his permission, not to talk to anyone, etc etc.....?
Marg from Oz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2013
- Messages
- 63,847
- Reaction score
- 10,726
Maybe it was an acting job that S.G. hired her for during the trial. Job finished and she's off looking for men to shower jewellery on her.
Thank you judge for sharing your friend's story. The effects are not at all one sided - and you've illustrated that really well. I now actually believe that the sentencing was correct - but at the time I couldn't see it.
I truly believe that SG has had numerous chances at "rehabilitation" which he has not benefitted from. I believe he forced the court, family and witnesses huge hurt and inconvenience by lying continually, and by not entering. A guilty plea. I just know that I don't want the sentence to be another point of hurt for all of those who love Lisa ( including all of you sleuthers!)
laserdisc10
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 1,478
- Reaction score
- 86
SG has proved himself to be a repeat, violent offender. So far, he's been treated extremely leniently by the authorities in my opinion. I question his being granted bail by the magistrate on such serious a charge. Also suspicious in my opinion were the suspended and periodic sentences imposed on SG re: his earlier offences
It's my belief SG will not cease acts of violence until someone in authority has the spine to make him stop via a lengthy prison sentence
SG has been given no reason either to fear authorities or to learn to respect the rights of others. It's to be suspected the public knows only a fraction of the crimes of which the individual is guilty. The information which has been revealed to us includes that he stalked a previous girlfriend - he enlisted up to a dozen accomplices in order he could grievously bash and wound the hero who attempted to defend her - he sought to evade capture by police and attacked those police in addition to inflicting lifelong injuries upon one. He again attempted to evade capture by police when in possession of drugs and proceeds of same. He broke into private homes and stole others property
He's used his claimed religion in attempts to persuade authorities of his remorse and intention not to run foul of the law in the future. He's enlisted the clergy to speak in his defence. Yet he's continued his life of violent crime, culminating in murder
Do any of his victims, prior to his murder of Lisa Harnum, feel justice was served? Have the sentences imposed on him thus far truly addressed the crimes of which he's been convicted? Have those sentences served as deterrent? Or could they be said to have encouraged him to progress to even worse crimes in the belief the law either cannot or will not touch him?
The judge has so far shown herself to be astute and capable. To be hoped is that she rectifies the lenient sentences imposed by her peers to date re: SG by imposing a full life term without parole. To do less would, in my opinion, be a betrayal of the rapidly eroding trust placed in the justice system by the paying public
It's my belief SG will not cease acts of violence until someone in authority has the spine to make him stop via a lengthy prison sentence
SG has been given no reason either to fear authorities or to learn to respect the rights of others. It's to be suspected the public knows only a fraction of the crimes of which the individual is guilty. The information which has been revealed to us includes that he stalked a previous girlfriend - he enlisted up to a dozen accomplices in order he could grievously bash and wound the hero who attempted to defend her - he sought to evade capture by police and attacked those police in addition to inflicting lifelong injuries upon one. He again attempted to evade capture by police when in possession of drugs and proceeds of same. He broke into private homes and stole others property
He's used his claimed religion in attempts to persuade authorities of his remorse and intention not to run foul of the law in the future. He's enlisted the clergy to speak in his defence. Yet he's continued his life of violent crime, culminating in murder
Do any of his victims, prior to his murder of Lisa Harnum, feel justice was served? Have the sentences imposed on him thus far truly addressed the crimes of which he's been convicted? Have those sentences served as deterrent? Or could they be said to have encouraged him to progress to even worse crimes in the belief the law either cannot or will not touch him?
The judge has so far shown herself to be astute and capable. To be hoped is that she rectifies the lenient sentences imposed by her peers to date re: SG by imposing a full life term without parole. To do less would, in my opinion, be a betrayal of the rapidly eroding trust placed in the justice system by the paying public
they'll get you
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 14,657
- Reaction score
- 57,059
Because of the public & media attention I'm wondering if a public outcry will be on the judge's mind when sentencing and in this case would his past convictions come into play even though they may not be relevant to this crime.
Sydney's west has been racked by drive by shootings linked to drugs so I'm wondering if SG had associates capable of these stand over tactics. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a weapon stashed in the ceiling. I doubt the cameras were originally installed solely for Lisa's benefit and that pinhole camera at the front door would have been there to see who was there. Were drugs sold from that apartment? Perfect location. Surely if that were the case the concierge would have noticed some 'Goings on'.
If it was a paid acting job I'm wondering if she got paid, if so, by whom? Maybe IF there was 'stash' concealed in the ceiling that could have kept the rent and incidentals paid to date.
RL may be tight lipped due to a signed contract for a juicy magazine story. Remember she was taking photos of the media scrum outside the court, was that her intention? Part two on sale after February?
Men only buy those magazines for the articles, don't they? Tongue in cheek? No it's been admitted and scantily clad photos proving sex sells cars etc. Sold to the highest bidder.
SouthAussie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 29,778
- Reaction score
- 181,404
:goodpost:
Couldn't agree with you more, laserdisc10 !!
Gittany has already imposed a life sentence on Lisa's mum and brother.
It is just unfortunate that he cannot be 'sentenced' in the same manner in which he 'sentenced' Lisa for trying to leave his abuse and control. But, unlike him, we are much too civilised for that.
I also absolutely agree with all you've said. As you mentioned, the public probably only knows a fraction of his crimes. He can't be that unlucky that he commits say 5 crimes and gets busted 5 times. It's frightening to think of whatever else he has done or been involved with, in the space of 20+ years, but didn't get caught and therefore, we don't know about it. :snooty:
Laserdisc10 ... and he enlisted Rachelle Louise for team Gittany. I was going to comment on a core point of yours, then discovered another, then another - then decided that the whole post makes several core points worthy of consideration. Thank you for articulating your thoughts. Agreed.
:goodpost:
laserdisc10
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 1,478
- Reaction score
- 86
SG has left a trail of pain and destruction in his wake. It will fade from the news but for those personally involved, it's for life. Every family get-together - every time they open a photo album - every time one of them says, 'Remember when ... '. It will remain a raw wound. Death of a loved-one hurts but in the normal course of events, time gradually helps heal. In the case of the murder of a loved-one, time stands still. Those affected have to try to construct some sort of existence around it. They have to try to deal with their feelings of raw grief, outrage, loss, despair, helplessness and the inevitable feelings of guilt and 'what-ifs'
It is contrary to our innate sense of justice that the murderer should be permitted to continue living their own life - should be able to rise to a sunny day - laugh with friends - travel - avail themselves of opportunities - plan for their future, etc.
A woman I've known well for many years (let's call her Helen) was involved with a Lebanese man very similar in history to SG. He was Helen's first boyfriend. He dominated and ruled her entire existence for almost ten years. His family knew what he was capable of. His siblings were afraid of him. His dozens of cousins and ethnic connections covered and lied for him, raised money for solicitors and assisted him to stalk and menace Helen whenever she tried to extricate herself. His employer likewise paid-off his many victims. He believed he was untouchable. Helen was forced to isolate herself for fear he would harm anyone with whom she came into any but the most casual contact. Her confidence was destroyed. She developed agoraphobia, athough at the time the term was virtually unknown and not discussed. Helen blamed herself. She was depressed, lonely and suicidal for years. When she leased a flat in utmost secrecy and began a new job, she believed she'd finally escaped him. But he was unrelenting, tracked her down over a year later and almost killed the man she later married
Throughout her ordeal, people 'blamed the victim' to the point even Helen blamed herself. It was only when police arrested him for attacking Helen's future husband with a deadly weapon before numerous witnesses, that her tormentor finally understood that Helen was not his to own or kill. He was not imprisoned and boasted about how much money his parents had invested in bribes. His uncles had likewise escaped long prison sentences for killing people on the roads. But the threat remained and Helen didn't stray far from her home even after she'd had children for fear he would harm her and her family. She and her husband moved interstate as soon as they could afford to do so
Helen learned her violent ex-boyfriend had not altered his ways. He'd married and had several children and beat them and his wife as if it were his 'right'. He'd been sacked for robbing his employer (involving huge sums of money) over a period of almost two decades by engineering robberies. Again, he escaped prison. He smashed & permanently scarred the face of one of his adult daughters. When his wife took the children to her parents after a family-bashing, he bashed and threatened his in-laws. This led to divorce. Reluctant to see his wife gain anything in property-settlement, he made death-threats to his wife, but by that time, the law had finally begun to seriously address domestic violence -- had stopped/been forced to stop blaming the victim - and his wife succeeded in gaining her financial entitlements and relative freedom. The violent offender has never been sentenced to a day in prison and when his parents died, they bequeathed him close to a million dollars in property. Today, he plays the role of grand-father and regards himself as a victim. No remorse. No admittance of guilt. Attends church in the belief it will provide him immunity/spiritual-insurance and his children - with an eye to their own inheritance - play the game
This could be the future of SG, depending on the sentence imposed on him. Helen's ex-boyfriend stopped (or had been stopped) just short of murder several times. He'd pushed Helen backwards over the railings of a high balcony, his hands around her throat after she'd flown interstate to get away from him. Only the appearance of others on the scene had saved her. He'd bashed a huge hole into the skull of a man who annoyed him, using a billiard ball - only Helen's intervention prevented that from becoming a murder. As it was, the victim was left brain-damaged for life - the assailant's employer had rushed to the hospital and paid the man off. He'd lashed another man with a car antenna, requiring 47 stitches to the victim's face. He'd bashed and raped women in company with his mates, leaving the victims naked in pitch black at council rubbish-dumps. So many other vile attacks on people and all unpunished thanks to 'contacts' and corruption, no lessons learned, no genuine remorse, nothing to halt further years of assaults and injury
Lawless individuals have to be stopped as early as possible in their lives of crime and destruction. I believe juries are entitled to be told of an accused's similar crimes in order to arrive at an informed verdict. After all, potential employers seek to learn an applicant's previous work-history, just as landlords are entitled to know the history of anyone applying to live in their property
It is contrary to our innate sense of justice that the murderer should be permitted to continue living their own life - should be able to rise to a sunny day - laugh with friends - travel - avail themselves of opportunities - plan for their future, etc.
A woman I've known well for many years (let's call her Helen) was involved with a Lebanese man very similar in history to SG. He was Helen's first boyfriend. He dominated and ruled her entire existence for almost ten years. His family knew what he was capable of. His siblings were afraid of him. His dozens of cousins and ethnic connections covered and lied for him, raised money for solicitors and assisted him to stalk and menace Helen whenever she tried to extricate herself. His employer likewise paid-off his many victims. He believed he was untouchable. Helen was forced to isolate herself for fear he would harm anyone with whom she came into any but the most casual contact. Her confidence was destroyed. She developed agoraphobia, athough at the time the term was virtually unknown and not discussed. Helen blamed herself. She was depressed, lonely and suicidal for years. When she leased a flat in utmost secrecy and began a new job, she believed she'd finally escaped him. But he was unrelenting, tracked her down over a year later and almost killed the man she later married
Throughout her ordeal, people 'blamed the victim' to the point even Helen blamed herself. It was only when police arrested him for attacking Helen's future husband with a deadly weapon before numerous witnesses, that her tormentor finally understood that Helen was not his to own or kill. He was not imprisoned and boasted about how much money his parents had invested in bribes. His uncles had likewise escaped long prison sentences for killing people on the roads. But the threat remained and Helen didn't stray far from her home even after she'd had children for fear he would harm her and her family. She and her husband moved interstate as soon as they could afford to do so
Helen learned her violent ex-boyfriend had not altered his ways. He'd married and had several children and beat them and his wife as if it were his 'right'. He'd been sacked for robbing his employer (involving huge sums of money) over a period of almost two decades by engineering robberies. Again, he escaped prison. He smashed & permanently scarred the face of one of his adult daughters. When his wife took the children to her parents after a family-bashing, he bashed and threatened his in-laws. This led to divorce. Reluctant to see his wife gain anything in property-settlement, he made death-threats to his wife, but by that time, the law had finally begun to seriously address domestic violence -- had stopped/been forced to stop blaming the victim - and his wife succeeded in gaining her financial entitlements and relative freedom. The violent offender has never been sentenced to a day in prison and when his parents died, they bequeathed him close to a million dollars in property. Today, he plays the role of grand-father and regards himself as a victim. No remorse. No admittance of guilt. Attends church in the belief it will provide him immunity/spiritual-insurance and his children - with an eye to their own inheritance - play the game
This could be the future of SG, depending on the sentence imposed on him. Helen's ex-boyfriend stopped (or had been stopped) just short of murder several times. He'd pushed Helen backwards over the railings of a high balcony, his hands around her throat after she'd flown interstate to get away from him. Only the appearance of others on the scene had saved her. He'd bashed a huge hole into the skull of a man who annoyed him, using a billiard ball - only Helen's intervention prevented that from becoming a murder. As it was, the victim was left brain-damaged for life - the assailant's employer had rushed to the hospital and paid the man off. He'd lashed another man with a car antenna, requiring 47 stitches to the victim's face. He'd bashed and raped women in company with his mates, leaving the victims naked in pitch black at council rubbish-dumps. So many other vile attacks on people and all unpunished thanks to 'contacts' and corruption, no lessons learned, no genuine remorse, nothing to halt further years of assaults and injury
Lawless individuals have to be stopped as early as possible in their lives of crime and destruction. I believe juries are entitled to be told of an accused's similar crimes in order to arrive at an informed verdict. After all, potential employers seek to learn an applicant's previous work-history, just as landlords are entitled to know the history of anyone applying to live in their property
SouthAussie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 29,778
- Reaction score
- 181,404
I think Justice McCallum gets to look at prior behaviours and convictions during the sentencing phase.
http://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/sentencing/subjective_matters.html#p10-400
Much, much more at link ... it's worth a read ... I don't see anything there that would help him avoid a lengthy prison term.
And I don't think Justice McCallum will fall for his pastor's persuasion - there is no pulling the wool over her eyes IMO.
http://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/sentencing/subjective_matters.html#p10-400
Much, much more at link ... it's worth a read ... I don't see anything there that would help him avoid a lengthy prison term.
And I don't think Justice McCallum will fall for his pastor's persuasion - there is no pulling the wool over her eyes IMO.
Just the gutters and bushes in the open? That's very risky/lazy/stupid! .:floorlaugh: I watched more creative things in at least two episodes of "Breaking Bad".
Laserdisc10 again you have portrayed some elements of the culture of corruption in the family systems which surround these violent criminals IMO. There were elements of this in the recent case IMO, but the Judge was astute.
sleepinoz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2012
- Messages
- 8,627
- Reaction score
- 25,315
As much as I hate what SG did, with the publicity and timing of the trial being close to White Ribbon Day it has brought about much needed talk about DV - hopefully it will bring some much needed action as well.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...ry-to-stop-abuse/story-fni0ffsx-1226776424845
Focus must be on men as we try to stop abuse
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...ry-to-stop-abuse/story-fni0ffsx-1226776424845
Focus must be on men as we try to stop abuse
Oh boy - I can't read this without feeling anger (obviously toward the ex-boyfriend). That would be so disheartening and bl*&#y frustrating to not ever see justice done, in some form or another. It seems to me that 'these' types of people who do this sort of thing have the complete opposite view when something is done to them or their family (by a third party or even through accident), but they are like a law unto themselves. Also, when you hear about people stealing property or money or even embezzling millions of $dollars, you never hear about the victims getting their money or property back. It's like the perpetrator gets to keep the cash in return for accepting a good behaviour bond. Not fair - That frustrates me too. :bump:
SouthAussie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 29,778
- Reaction score
- 181,404
Been looking on the internet for an answer to this question, but can't find an answer.
Does anyone know if Justice McCallum will pronounce a sentence at the sentencing hearing, after she has heard all submissions, or will she go away and consider then come back later to give the sentence?
I'm thinking that it will be at the same hearing, as I would think she already has a sentence in mind - one that may or may not be swayed one way or the other by submissions.
She is just so careful in her rulings (which I applaud) that I am wondering. :waitasec:
Does anyone know if Justice McCallum will pronounce a sentence at the sentencing hearing, after she has heard all submissions, or will she go away and consider then come back later to give the sentence?
I'm thinking that it will be at the same hearing, as I would think she already has a sentence in mind - one that may or may not be swayed one way or the other by submissions.
She is just so careful in her rulings (which I applaud) that I am wondering. :waitasec:
Good question - Because some reports are stating 'Gittany will be sentenced on 5 Feb 2014' whilst others are stating that the 'sentencing hearings' will be on 5 Feb 2014. :jail:
I found this about Sentencing Hearings NSW :
http://www.sentencingcouncil.lawlin...ntencing/sent_council_sentencing_hearing.html
http://www.sentencingcouncil.lawlin...ntencing/sent_council_sentencing_hearing.html
SouthAussie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 29,778
- Reaction score
- 181,404
I found this ... it is from a Canadian website, but having been ruled for a 100 years by the British at one point, Canada's Courts seem to have many similarities to ours. I think it answers my question about when the judge will hand down her sentence.
http://lawfacts.ca/node/64
A sentencing hearing is where an offender is given a sentence by a judge. It may take place right after an offender has pled guilty or been found guilty – or it may be days, weeks or months afterward. Sentencing hearings can be very short (sometimes only a few minutes) or much longer, taking hours or days to finish.
At some sentencing hearings, the Crown and the offender’s lawyer (or duty counsel) will agree on the type of sentence that the judge should give. At other hearings, the Crown and the offender’s lawyer (or duty counsel) will argue for different sentences. It is important to remember that the judge, not the lawyers, always makes the final decision on what the sentence will be.
As part of their arguments, the Crown and the offender’s lawyer (or duty counsel) can present things like letters, a PSR, or the offender’s criminal record and ask the judge for a certain type and/or length of sentence.
The materials presented at a sentencing hearing are often entered as exhibits.
After the lawyers have made their arguments (called “submissions”, the judge will consider their arguments and sentence the offender. Sometimes the judge will do this right after submissions. Other times, the judge will take a break or even adjourn the case to another day to think about what sentence they will give.
http://lawfacts.ca/node/64
- Status