GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-story fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #4

[LadyBird1]

OMG' Channel 7 just contacted me
NF from channel 7 is very interested in this photo, he asked were I obtained it & he's looking at Webslueths now. I told him WS is highly moderated and we can only post with proof from MSM. He somehow vaguely recalls the photo but is extremely happy to have it.
Phew that was exciting!

Actually they might find quite a lot of relevant stuff here! There's some brand new headlines.
"Amazing insights from Websleuths in Australia!"
Real life stories from real life people. Now that IS amazing!

 

[marlywings]

OMG' Channel 7 just contacted me
NF from channel 7 is very interested in this photo, he asked were I obtained it & he's looking at Webslueths now. I told him WS is highly moderated and we can only post with proof from MSM. He somehow vaguely recalls the photo but is extremely happy to have it.
Phew that was exciting!

Good work TGY!!! Thankyou for doing that!!

 

[LadyBird1]

This is great news that they have responded with interest to this photo and that you had the courage to follow up on my idea.

I am sure we will all be watching with great interest on Sunday night to see how they handle this as they need to show both sides of the story.

Benefits of Brainstorming!

 

[icu nurse]

Is now a pertinent time to "bump" the digging around finances and businesses done way back in the trial stage?

I would love for RL to explain Simon's "employment" for the 5 years she has known him!

 

[sleepinoz]

Actually they might find quite a lot of relevant stuff here! There's some brand new headlines.
"Amazing insights from Websleuths in Australia!"
Real life stories from real life people. Now that IS amazing!

And they won't have to pay $3 mil for it :seeya:

 

[Estelle]

To dear Estelle, I am very sorry to learn about your experience. Thank you for sharing about it here. Horrible thing to happen.
That you are to share your story here is also educational. Regarding flight fright and freeze.
It is very interesting (apologies if that sounds cold or unsympathetic; not meant that way) and relevant here, that you were rendered incapable of doing or saying anything. The truth is, I too wonder if this is what happened to Lisa. She FROZE.

I also felt this was premeditated insomuch that the threats and behaviour were rehearsed and practiced.

Having said that; the picture showing his hand over Lisa's mouth appears to have a finger over her nose as well. Would be impossible to breathe, depending on the pressure.

Another thing that has been glossed over was his account of the mornings activities. They got up early (yawn) and watched *advertiser censored*! Now we are supposed to swallow his priestly ambitions.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

The way I see it, Lisa could have told him that she was leaving much earlier and was seen packing so they argued and could not sleep. Lisa was not covert enough or she thought he was asleep and he awoke to find her packing. I don't believe they watched *advertiser censored* either as emotions would have been running high. SG would only admit to watching *advertiser censored* if he did not want to admit to the arguments which could have added to premeditation evidence.

IMO SG could have been threatening her with murder all night but she did not believe he would carry it out.

So when he stopped her from leaving and grabbed her to bring her back in, she probably would have frozen then thinking her end may be near. So when he put his hand over her mouth, she would have been putty in his hands.

So IMO it could have been a combination of FREEZE RESPONSE AND SUFFOCATION which made the task of picking her up and offloading her over the balcony much easier.

 

[they'll get you]

This is great news that they have responded with interest to this photo and that you had the courage to follow up on my idea.

I am sure we will all be watching with great interest on Sunday night to see how they handle this as they need to show both sides of the story.

Thanks Estelle for the suggestion & thanks for the original sleuther for posting it. I've sent it off to Ross Coulthart and several other channels. What I find interesting is that it was channel 7 who responded. It just may give them another slant on interviewing our RACH.
I've actually surprised myself taking the initiative with my trusty iPad cutting & pasting.

 

[icu nurse]

I have another theory on this from personal experience. I was given a glass of wine on the back balcony of a man's home and I had met the students there before this who had gone into their bedroom.

After we had finished our drinks, he suddenly picked me up and carried me down the hall, threw me on his bed and raped me.

As soon as he picked me up, I went into shock mode and while I was conscious of what he was doing, I was incapable of calling out to the students for help or struggling.

No one could ever understand why I could not call out or kick him but I was totally paralysed with fear.

Apparently, we either FIGHT, FLEE OR FREEZE in these circumstances.

Eventually, a Psychiatrist told me that I froze in fear. (Otherwise, in hindsight he could have drugged my wine.) Few people even now ever acknowledge this fear response to trauma.

http://www.stressstop.com/stress-tips/articles/fight-flight-or-freeze-response-to-stress.php



IMO SG could have d always told Lisa that if she ever tried to leave him, he would end her life and pretend it was suicide. According to the lady who recently came forward at the sentencing hearing, this was the case.

It is such a pity she did not come forward earlier because IMO Lisa had been living with this fear for some time. I have forgotten how long ago the lady said Lisa told her this.

Therefore, as soon as SG picked her up, Lisa may have known that this was going to be the end. Who knows what he said to her at the same time? An example could have been, "Now I'm going to throw you over the balcony and everyone will think that you have committed suicide.":facepalm:

I also think due to this photo, that Simon could have practised lifting Lisa up several times before and had this plan in mind if he ever needed it. For all we know he may have threatened Lisa with it to keep her under control. The note found in her jeans is also revealing too as if she had a premonition.

Therefore, IMO Lisa would have been completely traumatised and she FROZE as she knew there was no hope.

Some of these things could have helped the Prosecution with a case for premeditated murder if that lady had come forward before the trial. In other words, the practise had been done in advance of lifting her up and it was just a matter of time for the plan to be activated if he ever needed it.

Estelle, Words cannot express the deep gratitude I feel for you posting such a traumatic experience to us all here on WS.

I think all of us here have very personal reasons as to why we've arrived at this place, and it is exceptionally brave of you to bring yours to light.

Sexual Assault has such devastating impacts of guilt and shame on it's victims, and when you haven't reacted in a "proper" way (or at least that's what your mind tells you over and over again) the guilt is compounded by a horrible sensation that you were somehow complicit (which of course you were not).

I'm really pleased that you sought help, with someone who seems exceptionally logical - and that you felt safe enough to share this with us today.

Freezing is a deeply ingrained survival mechanism.... something we are taught - see a snake, don't move.... It's the same as silence in a verbal confrontation - please dont see me. Please don't just away.

Back in high school (surprisingly, considering it was a catholic all girl's school) we had a session on self defence and rape prevention. Not 12 months later I found myself in a situation that those skills were needed. There was no way I felt I could bring in the physical side - gouging the eyes, kicking the groin - it's just not me - and this was someone I knew - so I utilised one strategy they had given me in that session. Go along with it, act interested, then say you need to go to the bathroom.... AND GET OUT.

I did, scooping up my phone on the way, first sneaking out of the hotel room, then running out onto the beach, only in my underwear. A group of us were on holiday's in a three bedroom apartment. Being single, I was in the room with two single beds. My sister's fiancee's brother, who I didn't really know that well, had the other single bed.

I woke up to weight on top of me and my clothes removed. I hadn't been "nice" to him, hadn't flirted, I think the extent of our interaction had been him scabbing a few cigarettes from me earlier in the evening.

I had frozen. And because I had frozen, it froze me more. There was no way I felt I could throw him off me, and scream and kick and punch my way out of it.


That strategy saved me from something much much worse. I wish everyone could be taught it. I did feel exceptionally dirty for kissing him once, to play along and show my interest before I escaped using the bathroom ruse. But I also know it saved me.

You're not the only "freezer" out there, and it doesnt make what happened to you in any way your fault. My story would mirror yours entirely if it wasn't for that fortuitous session at school.

Fear can render you completely immobile.

Sending you love!

 

[LadyBird1]

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

The way I see it, Lisa could have told him that she was leaving much earlier and was seen packing so they argued and could not sleep. Lisa was not covert enough or she thought he was asleep and he awoke to find her packing. I don't believe they watched *advertiser censored* either as emotions would have been running high. SG would only admit to watching *advertiser censored* if he did not want to admit to the arguments which could have added to premeditation evidence.

IMO SG could have been threatening her with murder all night but she did not believe he would carry it out.

So when he stopped her from leaving and grabbed her to bring her back in, she probably would have frozen then thinking her end may be near. So when he put his hand over her mouth, she would have been putty in his hands.

So IMO it could have been a combination of FREEZE RESPONSE AND SUFFOCATION which made the task of picking her up and offloading her over the balcony much easier.

And I hope Ch 7 read this fine post too. Submitted by one who has experienced the Flight Fright Freeze situation first hand. By our esteemed, respected, and much loved Estelle.
So much more beneficial and relevant than doing that re-enactment thing.
And as sleepinos points out , they wont have to pay $3 million for it.

IMO, I feel the scenario painted here by Estelle might be very close to exactly what happened. Thank-you again so much Estelle.

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks Estelle for the suggestion & thanks for the original sleuther for posting it. I've sent it off to Ross Coulthart and several other channels. What I find interesting is that it was channel 7 who responded. It just may give them another slant on interviewing our RACH.
I've actually surprised myself taking the initiative with my trusty iPad cutting & pasting.

It's thank you to Fig Tree for sourcing that evidence of him lifting her effortlessly.

 

[Estelle]

http://au.isidewith.com/news/articl...hool-friend-lisa-harnum-transform-online-from

The photo TGY reported to Channel 7 can be found online at the above link.

Thanks also go to Figtree for posting it on Page 13 of this thread.

 

[Fuskier]

Hand over her mouth video. RL shows a depiction of this in the Sunday Night Video which just misses the aggression and violence involved and is inaccurate as well!

Look again: he violently, aggressively captures her, rage all over his face and demeanour; he places his large, male hand over both her nose and mouth maintaining a tight grip, thus restricting her ability to breathe as he drags her back into the apartment.

Marlywings are you able to provide link please?

 

[Estelle]

Estelle, Words cannot express the deep gratitude I feel for you posting such a traumatic experience to us all here on WS.

I think all of us here have very personal reasons as to why we've arrived at this place, and it is exceptionally brave of you to bring yours to light.

Sexual Assault has such devastating impacts of guilt and shame on it's victims, and when you haven't reacted in a "proper" way (or at least that's what your mind tells you over and over again) the guilt is compounded by a horrible sensation that you were somehow complicit (which of course you were not).

I'm really pleased that you sought help, with someone who seems exceptionally logical - and that you felt safe enough to share this with us today.

Freezing is a deeply ingrained survival mechanism.... something we are taught - see a snake, don't move.... It's the same as silence in a verbal confrontation - please dont see me. Please don't just away.

Back in high school (surprisingly, considering it was a catholic all girl's school) we had a session on self defence and rape prevention. Not 12 months later I found myself in a situation that those skills were needed. There was no way I felt I could bring in the physical side - gouging the eyes, kicking the groin - it's just not me - and this was someone I knew - so I utilised one strategy they had given me in that session. Go along with it, act interested, then say you need to go to the bathroom.... AND GET OUT.

I did, scooping up my phone on the way, first sneaking out of the hotel room, then running out onto the beach, only in my underwear. A group of us were on holiday's in a three bedroom apartment. Being single, I was in the room with two single beds. My sister's fiancee's brother, who I didn't really know that well, had the other single bed.

I woke up to weight on top of me and my clothes removed. I hadn't been "nice" to him, hadn't flirted, I think the extent of our interaction had been him scabbing a few cigarettes from me earlier in the evening.

I had frozen. And because I had frozen, it froze me more. There was no way I felt I could throw him off me, and scream and kick and punch my way out of it.


That strategy saved me from something much much worse. I wish everyone could be taught it. I did feel exceptionally dirty for kissing him once, to play along and show my interest before I escaped using the bathroom ruse. But I also know it saved me.

You're not the only "freezer" out there, and it doesnt make what happened to you in any way your fault. My story would mirror yours entirely if it wasn't for that fortuitous session at school.

Fear can render you completely immobile.

Sending you love!

Thanks ICU nurse for sharing your story too because I have found that few people understand or acknowledge this freeze response.

Unfortunately for me, I did not have time to use the bathroom response as he carried me past it down the hall from the back of the house to the front where his bedroom was as I was already paralyzed with fear and could not move or talk! But I have used the bathroom excuse in other situations.

 

[Estelle]

Hand over her mouth video. RL shows a depiction of this in the Sunday Night Video which just misses the aggression and violence involved and is inaccurate as well!

Look again: he aggressively captures her, rage all over his face and demeanour; he places his large, male hand over both her nose and mouth in a tight grip, thus restricting her ability to breathe.

SUFFOCATION. Did the court cover this aspect?

 

[sleepinoz]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-12/domestic-violence-group-welcomes-gittany-sentence/5253594

Simon Gittany's murder trial has encouraged women to report domestic abuse, advocacy group says

 

[they'll get you]

LISTEN UP GUYS
What the heck his name was Nick Farrow from channel 7.
JUST GOOGLED him & he's The producer of Sunday Night!!
So glad I jotted his name! Would've been too excited to remember!!
Now, for the producer to make the call & he was very interested that puts new excitement into it.
When he asked 'we're did you get this photo' I gave a big wrap & made the point that Webslueths is highly moderated and we have to back everything up from MSM. So it hasn't been altered. IMHO

So watch out Marley he might want your life story

 

[possumheart]

Just before proposing, Gittany tells his audience he had "lost my faith in women" in part because he "couldn't find a woman that was going to serve me".
For, after the storm of publicity unleashed by Gittany's murder conviction this week has cleared, after the wails of his relatives ceased echoing through the halls of the Supreme Court and, after the printed revelations of his violence as a youth have yellowed in the sun, what remains is a crime of domestic violence by a man who believed that women were placed on the earth to serve him.
It was in this context, Justice Lucy McCallum found, that the 40-year-old grabbed Lisa Harnum by the throat in a possessive rage as she tried to flee their 15th floor apartment at The Hyde on July 30, 2011, and dragged her back inside. Neighbours say they heard a woman screaming "Please help me! God, help me!", followed by a man's voice, and then complete silence.
Gittany had knocked the young woman out, Justice McCallum found. He then carried her prone body out to the balcony and "unloaded" her over the edge, sending her plunging 15 storeys to the footpath below.
http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/news-features/in-one-moment-killer-simon-gittany-revealed-the-jealous-man-lurking-behind-the-smile-20131130-2yhw7.html

 

[LadyBird1]

In this video, the Reporter said it was premeditated murder. That is the first time I have heard that the Judge considered it premeditated. I need to read the Judge's sentencing. I thought she said it was rage.

First time I heard that too.
Whilst discussing premeditation, The torn note in Lisa's pocket was highly significant. I believe that Lisa suspected strongly what Simon had in store for her, should she dare try and escape his hold.
What could she do?
Talk to her mother about it.
Talk to her counsellor about it.
All those avenues were scrutinized and threatened. (In fact the counsellor herself was threatened by him)
Talk to her friends about it.
Maybe, just maybe, that avenue may not been under such heavy surveillance.
I believe dear Lisa pre-meditated a plan that, if all else fails, her voice still may be heard.
It is that pre-meditated plan or cry for help, that causes me to think that SG had threatened her with, and well and truly pre-meditated his course of action.

 

[blackpanther]

Is now a pertinent time to "bump" the digging around finances and businesses done way back in the trial stage?

I would love for RL to explain Simon's "employment" for the 5 years she has known him!

I am quiet sure Lisa has taken that secret with her, may she RIP.

SG brother may be able to shed some light on that subject. Quiet a lot of little pills can fit into a box the size of an external hard drive.

Entirely my thoughts in this regard.

 

[marlywings]

Hand over her mouth video. RL shows a depiction of this in the Sunday Night Video which just misses the aggression and violence involved and is inaccurate as well!

Look again: he violently, aggressively captures her, rage all over his face and demeanour; he places his large, male hand over both her nose and mouth maintaining a tight grip, thus restricting her ability to breathe as he drags her back into the apartment.

Marlywings are you able to provide link please?

Pic from the video...

The video is also on following link...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-fianc-es-mouth-hurled-Sydney-balcony.html