Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Thanks, I was confused by this as well!

To me, the Colonial Bank in Ashmore is an important place to look. I saw on the fb page that they are looking for staff from the Commonwealth bank in Ashmore- I guess because when they merged some of the staff would have gone to the commonwealth? It really sounds to me as though the bank had a way of contacting Marion after she returned to Australia.

I agree that the Bank had contact details for Marion and that there would have been a cross over of staff between CBA & Colonial.
When banks merge they tend to (initially at least) retain as many of the staff from the outgoing bank as they can so that customers dont view the merger as a take-over.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

That's very true- I agree completely. I don't know how the logistics of that works. She indicated that she was starting her new life, and didn't want contact with her family. To run an investigation into where she is now- how does that fit with her rights to have chosen to leave? If she is found, who is told? Because unless she changes her mind- the only information able to be released already has been. If she walked into a police station today, and said "here I am, here is my proof, I have already told you I don't want contact. I am alive, but want nothing disclosed" I don't even know if they can pass on the alive part. Maybe with her permission the police could say "she is alive" and that's it. If Marion is out there alive and well, I truly hope all this attention will drive her to make contact, even if only with police. I don't envy the coroner making the decision. If an inquest occurs, and the police documents are made available, a whole lot more about Marion's actions in 1997 will be revealed. She has every right to that privacy. Yet, the fact that no one can find trace of her in the 20 + years since is highly suspicious, and warrants investigation to check on her safety and wellbeing. Marion has the right to a new life, but surely Sally has the right to live her own life without being in limbo. It is so complex and difficult. I guess I think of people like Lori Ruff- no one from her past would have found a trace of her, as she was living under an assumed identity.

I was really making the point that the podcast producers don't always seem as concerned as I believe they should about reporting completely truthfully. In conversations 3 Brian straight up says that NSWP protocol says an officer must physically sight a person or find remains to list a person as located, and that the police had ignored their own protocol. That is not true. Not being happy with what has happened is not and excuse to be liberal with the truth. (5:53) I am really concerned that in the efforts to make the police look bad, actual clues might be missed. I feel that Sally and Marion deserve a bit better. Garry Sheehan, too.

Yes!
Part of preserving privacy for people who chose to go missing, is ensuring the people they dont want contact with are not able to use official channels to keep in contact with them. Continual enquiries into their well being could be seen as harrassment. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Marion, rather that regardless of why the person chooses to disappear the same privacy rules apply.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I drove to Armidale today to check out the teachers college archives- but they only open in the afternoon- should have done my own fact checking, as I couldn't stay. Next time! The discrepancy with where Marion studied is really bugging me, especially as the early report that she studied in Armidale has her in the same town as the crimestoppers tip.

Oh Mel1303, that's a shame, you forgot to sleuth the opening times .... that's funny. Hope you find the answers you're searching for, look forward to hearing the result .... the Armidale link is pretty interesting, you may be onto something. Good luck

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Today I'm interested in the bank visits, the order in which they occurred and the dates they occured; want to lay it out on a map and see where it started and ended, the bank draining that is .... will have a look when I've got some spare time ... looking for clues.

 

[K8g]

Yes!
Part of preserving privacy for people who chose to go missing, is ensuring the people they dont want contact with are not able to use official channels to keep in contact with them. Continual enquiries into their well being could be seen as harrassment. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Marion, rather that regardless of why the person chooses to disappear the same privacy rules apply.

I wonder what would happen in the case of someone 'choosing' to go missing with influences such as mental health concerns, psychiatric conditions, or even blackmail, etc. Like you, not suggesting it's the case for Marion but I'd hope the authorities have some kind of power (or even common sense) to differentiate between the welfare and the privacy of the missing person.

 

[Mel 1303]

Edit- will come back to this post, want to check a fact.

 

[NesssaP]

Another thought about the flights - maybe the dates she booked the actual flights would further influence opinion on her planning? ...IF.... she booked her flight to the UK before her name change??? ... IF... she booked the return flight to Australia well ahead of time, then might well indicate more deliberate planning to disappear ahead of time... and then again IF... it was booked last minute and urgently before she arrived back on August 2nd - then that would indicate a sudden unexpected change of plans... and would open up more dialogue about the name change itself...

And finding out for certain what name was on her flight bookings both directions is imperative... not just whether her name was changed before hand - but what name did she travel in?? What date did she apply for the Remakel name change and also the actual passport?? What date were they approved and collected?? I just don't think there has been a definitive answer to any of those questions...

I am personally leaning on something unexpected happening while she was overseas that needed her urgent attention to travel back here for... BUT... whether her new life was deliberate or planned - either way she has been unsighted for 22 years - surely by now someone would have come out of the wood work to say otherwise, even anonymously... IF she has started a new life and moved on without her family, there would have been more trace of her than there is...

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Today I'm interested in the bank visits, the order in which they occurred and the dates they occured; want to lay it out on a map and see where it started and ended, the bank draining that is .... will have a look when I've got some spare time ... looking for clues.

In episode 4 when they are discussing the Salvos letter sent to Marion's Dad in March 98 they refer to the closure of the Colonial account (on 15th Oct) as being a month after the account at CBA Byron Bay was drained. So the CBA 5k withdrawals must have been later Aug early Sept 97.

The full details of the Salvos letter isnt shared but it doesnt seem to mention the account activity prior to the closure of the Colonial account - just that it was closed 15th Oct 97 and that Marion had been identified at that visit and spoke of starting a new life.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I've been thinking about the first Salvos search initiated by Marion's Dad. The letter he recieved March 98 says that Marion withdrew the balance of her Colonial Ashmore account on 15 Oct 97 and that she had spoken of starting a new life.

When the Salvo search is discussed in episode 4 (8:05) they also discuss the relayed message from Marion saying she was upset about not getting the car money and not to search for her in Byron because shes far away.

It's not clear from what they say who Marion gave the dont look for me/upset about the car money message to but it couldnt have been the Officer at Colonial Ashmore. When she closed the Ashmore account she didnt know anyone was looking for her (not reported missing until 22nd), also the car money was supposed to be deposited into CBA (the details she gave Sally) not the Colonial at Ashmore and also "dont look for me I'm far away" is not a statement you say when you're reasonably closeby talking to someone face to face, it sounds like a phone conversation.

So there were two (potentially three) people who identified Marion and were told about her plans to start a new life.

 

[Mel 1303]

I've been thinking about the first Salvos search initiated by Marion's Dad. The letter he recieved March 98 says that Marion withdrew the balance of her Colonial Ashmore account on 15 Oct 97 and that she had spoken of starting a new life.

When the Salvo search is discussed in episode 4 (8:05) they also discuss the relayed message from Marion saying she was upset about not getting the car money and not to search for her in Byron because shes far away.

It's not clear from what they say who Marion gave the dont look for me/upset about the car money message to but it couldnt have been the Officer at Colonial Ashmore. When she closed the Ashmore account she didnt know anyone was looking for her (not reported missing until 22nd), also the car money was supposed to be deposited into CBA (the details she gave Sally) not the Colonial at Ashmore and also "dont look for me I'm far away" is not a statement you say when you're reasonably closeby talking to someone face to face, it sounds like a phone conversation.

So there were two (potentially three) people who identified Marion and were told about her plans to start a new life.

This, for me, is the main piece of evidence. She was identified at the bank withdrawing the balance of her account. Jack Wilsons letter to the Salvos, as described in episode 4, states that he asked the police what identification had been made, and that he was told that the bank security had contacted her on the phone, and that she had said she didn't want her whereabouts known ( 7:14). They said that the bank security were like police, and that if I wanted to probe further, I should hire a private detective and start in Byron Bay. When the Salvo's followed up with the Missing Persons unit, the response says that the salvos officer had been speaking at length to the NSW MPU, who in turn contacted the security officer at the Colonial State Bank at Ashmore, at Southport. This is when the info about being angry about the car comes from, and stop looking for me in Byron Bay. It came from the bank at Ashmore- someone there had her contact details. They were able to contact her by phone. She had lived at Ashmore, this was her home suburb. Someone at that bank knew where she was after October 1997.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

This, for me, is the main piece of evidence. She was identified at the bank withdrawing the balance of her account. Jack Wilsons letter to the Salvos, as described in episode 4, states that he asked the police what identification had been made, and that he was told that the bank security had contacted her on the phone, and that she had said she didn't want her whereabouts known ( 7:14). They said that the bank security were like police, and that if I wanted to probe further, I should hire a private detective and start in Byron Bay. When the Salvo's followed up with the Missing Persons unit, the response says that the salvos officer had been speaking at length to the NSW MPU, who in turn contacted the security officer at the Colonial State Bank at Ashmore, at Southport. This is when the info about being angry about the car comes from, and stop looking for me in Byron Bay. It came from the bank at Ashmore- someone there had her contact details. They were able to contact her by phone. She had lived at Ashmore, this was her home suburb. Someone at that bank knew where she was after October 1997.

That phone number is the key; is that number in the police file? Is the Salvation Army info in the police file, maybe police have a copy of the Salvo's file - the original documents being disposed of, as we know, from the warehouse but maybe they have a copy in the police file. H'mm. Just a thought. But the phone number is very important .... "bank security contacted her on the phone", Salvos contacted on the phone - which phone number?

 

[Meligator]

This, for me, is the main piece of evidence. She was identified at the bank withdrawing the balance of her account. Jack Wilsons letter to the Salvos, as described in episode 4, states that he asked the police what identification had been made, and that he was told that the bank security had contacted her on the phone, and that she had said she didn't want her whereabouts known ( 7:14). They said that the bank security were like police, and that if I wanted to probe further, I should hire a private detective and start in Byron Bay. When the Salvo's followed up with the Missing Persons unit, the response says that the salvos officer had been speaking at length to the NSW MPU, who in turn contacted the security officer at the Colonial State Bank at Ashmore, at Southport. This is when the info about being angry about the car comes from, and stop looking for me in Byron Bay. It came from the bank at Ashmore- someone there had her contact details. They were able to contact her by phone. She had lived at Ashmore, this was her home suburb. Someone at that bank knew where she was after October 1997.

Is it possible though that the bank security officer was describing to police contents of a prior phone conversation with Marion? If Marion called the bank on Oct 15 to withdraw remaining funds in her account, perhaps she spoke then, at length, with the security officer.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Afterthought .... did Marion have a mobile phone, has that been mentioned? They've been around long enough for her to have had one.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Is it possible though that the bank security officer was describing to police contents of a prior phone conversation with Marion? If Marion called the bank on Oct 15 to withdraw remaining funds in her account, perhaps she spoke then, at length, with the security officer.

Yes it is possible the information given to the Salvos was a recollection of a prior conversation, but the upset about the car/dont look for me I'm far away conversation couldnt have been at the same time she closed the Colonial account at Ashmore.
The conversation about the car money and her being far away had to have happened after she closed the colonial account because no one was looking for her at the time she closed the colonial account. The closure of the Colonial account was a month after she made the 5K withdrawals from CBA.

Colonial Bank must have had current contact details for Marion after she returned to Australia and that those contact details were able to reach Marion for at least a few months after she returned.

 

[NesssaP]

Searching for clues to find missing mum

Just found this article from 2013... mentions a few other things I had not heard or read before... There was a Crime Stoppers tip back in 2002 in regards to Marion being buried in Armidale...

Could this have been the same tip repeated on Facebook by Clark Hunter in 2013? or just a troll using the articles information ? Maybe this article provided direction for Clark Hunter to post the tip to Sally - as the article clearly names her etc...

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

This, for me, is the main piece of evidence. She was identified at the bank withdrawing the balance of her account. Jack Wilsons letter to the Salvos, as described in episode 4, states that he asked the police what identification had been made, and that he was told that the bank security had contacted her on the phone, and that she had said she didn't want her whereabouts known ( 7:14). They said that the bank security were like police, and that if I wanted to probe further, I should hire a private detective and start in Byron Bay. When the Salvo's followed up with the Missing Persons unit, the response says that the salvos officer had been speaking at length to the NSW MPU, who in turn contacted the security officer at the Colonial State Bank at Ashmore, at Southport. This is when the info about being angry about the car comes from, and stop looking for me in Byron Bay. It came from the bank at Ashmore- someone there had her contact details. They were able to contact her by phone. She had lived at Ashmore, this was her home suburb. Someone at that bank knew where she was after October 1997.

Totally agree. The Colonial had to have contact details for Marion for at least a few months after she returned to Australia.

I think the CBA had contact details too. When Marion was initially reported missing by Sally the podcast says she recieved a return phone call "a few days later" saying Marion had been located and didnt want any contact or information divulged. The police would have had easy access to Marion's credit history so the info may have come from Colonial at Ashmore but given the very quick timeframe it makes me think the info came from CBA (which would have been included by Sally in the report). Also Sally has said that the CBA put a hold on Marion's account after she visited and to me this seems odd because Sally is an unauthorised third party to Marion's account. However police are authorized so if they contacted CBA and asked for a hold whilst they investigated the missing person report that would happen.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Searching for clues to find missing mum

Just found this article from 2013... mentions a few other things I had not heard or read before... There was a Crime Stoppers tip back in 2002 in regards to Marion being buried in Armidale...

Could this have been the same tip repeated on Facebook by Clark Hunter in 2013? or just a troll using the articles information ? Maybe this article provided direction for Clark Hunter to post the tip to Sally - as the article clearly names her etc...

They talk about the crimestoppers tip in one of the early episodes. Cant remember which one sorry - maybe #5? Garry Sheehan took a cadaver dog to investigate the location at Armidale. They didnt locate anything unfortunately. Sally would like it looked into again because it was raining on the day of the search and (from memory) the search area wasnt very big. Is the Clark Hunter tip the man who sent the Facebook message saying you'll never see your Mum again? (How awful!) That is in episode 5 - theres not much info on that because I think he deleted his profile - or something that makes it hard to trace

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Searching for clues to find missing mum

Just found this article from 2013... mentions a few other things I had not heard or read before... There was a Crime Stoppers tip back in 2002 in regards to Marion being buried in Armidale...

Could this have been the same tip repeated on Facebook by Clark Hunter in 2013? or just a troll using the articles information ? Maybe this article provided direction for Clark Hunter to post the tip to Sally - as the article clearly names her etc...

Different tip I reckon, the 2002 Crimestoppers tip says Marion was buried in Armidale, and the Clark Hunter tip in 2013 said Marion was alive :
Mystery post
In 2013, someone identifying as Clark Hunter posted this on Leydon's Facebook site:

"Natalia is alive but you (sic) never see her again," it read.

'Natalia is alive but you (sic) never see her again'.

"‘It was not her intention to disappear. She was forced."

Afterthought ... but wait, yes, I see what you mean, could have been connected to the crimestoppers call, wanting to make them believe Marion was still around. Yes indeed. Might have been dobbed in by someone in the Crimestoppers call, all possible.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Just been looking at some posts here ... I have to say, that comment about "tell Sally I'm angry" about the car sale money not being put in her account ... "tell Sally", that's very odd, she's asking for that to be passed on to her, even though she's wanting to mysteriously disappear! Then why didn't Marion ring her and ask her to put the money in the account? Or, get the bank security people to pass it on, "could you put the money in the account for your mum", that would have solved the problem .... if it was genuine. That comment really raises alarm bells ... highly suspicious. Also, we haven't heard in the podcast that Sally told her mum that the car had even been sold. Such a puzzle.

 

[Sparkles5777]

Just been looking at some posts here ... I have to say, that comment about "tell Sally I'm angry" about the car sale money not being put in her account ... "tell Sally", that's very odd, she's asking for that to be passed on to her, even though she's wanting to mysteriously disappear! Then why didn't Marion ring her and ask her to put the money in the account? Or, get the bank security people to pass it on, "could you put the money in the account for your mum", that would have solved the problem .... if it was genuine. That comment really raises alarm bells ... highly suspicious. Also, we haven't heard in the podcast that Sally told her mum that the car had even been sold. Such a puzzle.

I find it interesting that Marion knew the car had sold at all. Sally had indeed sold the car so this was a fact. So who told Marion at the time? Not that many people could have know that piece of information. It's quite specific. How did she know this had happened?