Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[vivienbee]

The police have a duty to locate Marion. Full stop. Doesn't matter what her intentions were or what the investigators thought her intentions were between 1997 and today. According to the law, she is still missing.

For the longest time, my instinct was that she met with foul play. And I still do think that. Mostly because the proof-of-life checks have turned up empty.

Yet, since the inquest, I see more of a gray area now for two reasons.

When Marion's friend and Sally both testified that they could see Marion choosing to miss her only daughter's wedding for any reason at all other than being held captive, to me, is troubling. That says more about Marion's character than almost all other anecdotes in the podcast.

On top of that, eek....that letter to Lee. While it reads as fun and exciting and positively merry, the one thing we all know (and she knew) was that she legally changed her name. So, if you get into Marion's mindset, there's something so cold about that line when she mentions meeting another woman named Maz. She's lying by omission, firstly. And secondly, she's showing no sign of guilt that her little sister calls her Maz when, in reality, Maz is no more (and if she had no plan to return, it's only a matter of time until Lee figures out she's been lied to). It's very cold. I'd be hurt. Unless Lee knew she changed her name, you'd think Marion would want to skirt the topic of affectionate nicknames and identities all together in such a short letter.

The reverse of that is like if Marion wrote that letter to her baby sis "Leap" but "Leap" is actually Michalina Philomena Lee Wittelsbach now. Sure, you can call her Leap but she doesn't really go by that name anymore.

I just need to know WHERE ON EARTH IS SHE!?

I agree with the majority of what you said, but not about the name change. There's nothing suggesting that Marion would have asked her family to call her 'Florabella' if she changed her name, regardless of the circumstances she left under.
Some of my friends from high school have nicknames related to their surnames, and they are now married with different names entirely. We still call them by their original nicknames.
My sister has many nicknames for me, and they are personal to us. That doesn't change just because someone legally changes their name.
In part, it is technically a lie of omission, if you consider her not telling her anything about the entire situation going on with her a lie of omission, which is a fair stance.
But the name itself I don't see as strange.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

The police have a duty to locate Marion. Full stop. Doesn't matter what her intentions were or what the investigators thought her intentions were between 1997 and today. According to the law, she is still missing.

For the longest time, my instinct was that she met with foul play. And I still do think that. Mostly because the proof-of-life checks have turned up empty.

i fall into this camp that she met foul play. i find it unlikely that you would take the effort to contact family through letters, postcards, phone calls and sending gifts and discuss your future holiday plans. if you wanted to disappear once you jumped on that plane youd be silent and you sure as hell wouldnt inform ppl of your holiday destinations happily as you went along and lay bare where you are. that behaviour doesnt match a case where someone wants to slip under the radar.

 

[Meligator]

In the podcast, Sr Constable Mccallister said initial check on Medicaid came back with nothing, likely b/c he was checking name Marion Barter. When he checked again in 2011 (with Florabella) he got a hit for Grafton. Not sure the medicaid process, but would suggest Marion was attending Dr visit as “Florabella.” I find that interesting because it’s the only indication that she was using Florabella for anything other than the travel. I wonder if she planned to assume the identity of Florabella more permanently. Maybe she abandoned that plan when Sally found out about the bank money & and felt her cover could be blow. Part of me thinks Marion’s plan was to stay in AU. She returned for some reason (if she was planning to stay overseas permanently, then she could have planned ahead so there was no need to come back at all) & there was some mystery man in Australia. The UK trip could have been a ruse so that people would search for her there and not in AU. She could have easily carried on as Florabella while everyone searched UK for Marion Barter.

Also, Salvos or bank employees (I can’t remember who) suggested that the family hire a private investigator and start looking for Marion in Byron Bay—maybe someone knew she was planning to be in Byron Bay.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I have often stayed with people around the world in their own homes for free as I am a member of several hospitality clubs. I did not know these hosts beforehand. I was also often given a contact name from friends and they offered to host me for a few days or longer if we got on.

I am now wondering whether Marion was offered free accommodation near Rye by scammers and in return she offered to pay for the car rental and they said they would show her around at least on weekends.

Did Marion ever state that she stayed in a hotel or BnB? Of course, she could have done that as well during the week. But if she was murdered, it would be far easier to commit it and hide her body if Marion and her belongings were in a private home.

Marion states in her letter to Sal & Chris postmarked 30/6/97 that she was staying at a “quaint little hotel (in Tunbridge Wells) offering old fashioned rooms and yummy breakfast”.

Hotels used by overseas visitors in the town weren’t that large in number at the time. As I’ve mentioned on another post I still think The Swan Hotel was the likeliest fitting her description.

Marion was very careful not to give too much away. My own feeling is that whoever persuaded her to travel to Europe (the man seen by both Sally & Chris in Marion’s car?) wasn’t with her all the time.

The fairly large sum of money in the small bank in Rye still bothers me.

I contacted Barclays Bank some time back who said they would look into it if a request was made by the Police. But as far as I’m aware no request has ever been made as it has to originate from NSW Police.

 

[sunnynz]

I have read and listened to all of Marion’s postcards and letter home in 1997 (that we currently know of). None of them make me believe this was a woman intending returning to Australia on the 2 Aug 1997. They don’t suggest cunning and subterfuge in my view.

I totally agree with you in some respects but then recall that she had changed her name and got a new passport by then without telling her family, which to me shows a pretty major ability to at best keep secrets and at worst deceive.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Probably nothing relevant but it looks like an old building from Norfolk Island was later moved to Southport to become the music department at TSS school. I was hoping to find any land owned by TSS on the actual island but none so far.

 

[KiwiNZ]

In the podcast, Sr Constable Mccallister said initial check on Medicaid came back with nothing, likely b/c he was checking name Marion Barter. When he checked again in 2011 (with Florabella) he got a hit for Grafton. Not sure the medicaid process, but would suggest Marion was attending Dr visit as “Florabella.” I find that interesting because it’s the only indication that she was using Florabella for anything other than the travel..

I had to listen to that a few times,

2011 - he started looking under the name Florabella, as he had found out about the name change -
I think it meant he was trying to find Medicare information under Florabella and that is why he got no hits, because it was done under the name Marion Barter. ??

I am going to ask the facebook page to clarify though, because if she had gone to the effort to change her Medicare card to Florabella that would seem she was quite serious about her new identity.

 

[Estelle]

Marion states in her letter to Sal & Chris postmarked 30/6/97 that she was staying at a “quaint little hotel (in Tunbridge Wells) offering old fashioned rooms and yummy breakfast”.

Hotels used by overseas visitors in the town weren’t that large in number at the time. As I’ve mentioned on another post I still think The Swan Hotel was the likeliest fitting her description.

Marion was very careful not to give too much away. My own feeling is that whoever persuaded her to travel to Europe (the man seen by both Sally & Chris in Marion’s car?) wasn’t with her all the time.

The fairly large sum of money in the small bank in Rye still bothers me.

I contacted Barclays Bank some time back who said they would look into it if a request was made by the Police. But as far as I’m aware no request has ever been made as it has to originate from NSW Police.

But aren't you assuming she stayed in this hotel the whole time of her stay in the UK and used it as a base?

The question is why did she choose a bank in Rye? It is only a 40 minute drive from Tunbridge Wells but I would have chosen a larger town as an Australian travelling overseas unless I knew someone there who suggested it to me.

Are we sure that she travelled overseas with a man from Brisbane airport? Has that ever been established?

I think I need a timeline.

? Marion departs from Brisbane airport
? Marion arrives in London
? Marion rents a car
?Marion is in Tunbridge Wells
? Marion mentions Dutch Dentist and Maz
? Marion departs from London
? Marion phones Sally
? Marion arrives in Australia

Can anyone help me with a timeline please?

 

[PhilOlivettifan]

I was still thinking there was a man involved - whether his name was really Remakel or this was an alias. I feel like it could still be a romance scam, or Marion lured in by a slightly shady guy but didn’t necessarily meet with foul play, or any of those previously discussed options. But with Norfolk Island as a final destination rather than uk/Europe or Australia.

I’m not clear on the details but just had an “OMG have we looked properly at Norfolk Island” moment!

It's a red herring surely. She only went on holiday there.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

To me the Rye connection grows stronger. Why do a bank transfer to a small town on the coast of East Sussex?

She clearly planned to visit that quiet part of England before she even left Australia. We now know from the recently discovered postcard that she went there and I think the odds are she stayed there too. On her own or with someone?

She never touched the Rye money. Was this the end of the road for Marion?

That's a VERY interesting point LPF, brilliant "the Rye connection grows stronger" .... so someone in Rye has to remember her, they need to focus on the B&B, oust, hotels in Rye. Totally agree. Maybe finding some old Rye local newspapers from 1997, may be something there too. And thanks for putting up all those Yellow Pages up, have screenshot 'em all ... just discovered if you click on one picture you can see 'em all at once with the arrow

 

[PhilOlivettifan]

i fall into this camp that she met foul play. i find it unlikely that you would take the effort to contact family through letters, postcards, phone calls and sending gifts and discuss your future holiday plans. if you wanted to disappear once you jumped on that plane youd be silent and you sure as hell wouldnt inform ppl of your holiday destinations happily as you went along and lay bare where you are. that behaviour doesnt match a case where someone wants to slip under the radar.

I feel the same but for a slightly different, or additional, reason. The podcast has been very popular for about 2 years, and now we have a Coronial Inquest and Homicide detectives looking into it. You would assume that if Marion was alive, she would have known all this was occurring. I don't believe a person could sit back and let this get to this point. Marion would have gone into her local police station and put the issue to rest by now if she was alive.

 

[PhilOlivettifan]

Rather than Norfolk Island, Luke Glover seems to hold the key to why Marion made the choices she did in 1997. Of course he is dead so we might never know the details.

The "report" that her Teachers Aide made into her inappropriateness with the boys could have cost Marion her job. It may have been used by Glover in all sorts of ways such as blackmail.

 

[Meligator]

Yes, sometimes info comes so quickly in the podcast I often question my own understanding & interpretation. I could have totally misunderstood.

I had to listen to that a few times,

2011 - he started looking under the name Florabella, as he had found out about the name change -
I think it meant he was trying to find Medicare information under Florabella and that is why he got no hits, because it was done under the name Marion Barter. ??

I am going to ask the facebook page to clarify though, because if she had gone to the effort to change her Medicare card to Florabella that would seem she was quite serious about her new identity.

 

[Meligator]

In episode 12 (~51:51) the following quote from Graham Childs (below). Sounds like he starts to say something he shouldn’t and then stumbles to correct himself. Maybe he did speak with Marion and is trying to respect her privacy by not disclosing.


“would love to be able to say I remember talking to your mother and being able to pass that information on. I can’t tell you anymore because she didn’t want to have an [interrupts self] …I said I…none of this is actually…um…sketchy….”

 

[sunnynz]

In episode 12 (~51:51) the following quote from Graham Childs (below). Sounds like he starts to say something he shouldn’t and then stumbles to correct himself. Maybe he did speak with Marion and is trying to respect her privacy by not disclosing.


“would love to be able to say I remember talking to your mother and being able to pass that information on. I can’t tell you anymore because she didn’t want to have an [interrupts self] …I said I…none of this is actually…um…sketchy….”

It definitely appears that way but surely he would be legally obliged to disclose it at the point we're at now with the inquest and homicide investigation?

 

[Meligator]

I don’t know. Would he? If Marion had said “do not tell anyone you spoke to me”- what would be required by law? I don’t know Australian law, but would Marion have a right to such privacy upon request? In Child’s inquest interview, it’s stated that “some” of his police notes were shared at the inquest. Why only some? Could it be that notes reflecting Marion’s request for privacy are what is being withheld? In order to keep private that she made such a request?

It definitely appears that way but surely he would be legally obliged to disclose it at the point we're at now with the inquest and homicide investigation?

 

[bettyboop]

Oh boy. What a tangled web we weave... I just don't know who created the web. I truly feel great sympathy for Sally and am glad she has her husband and children for support. I have not listened to the podcast as yet, and to be honest, I'm not sure I will. I'm not sure of how accurate the information is. I keep going back and forth on what I think happened,
just like everyone else. JMO MOO

 

[brjakj]

I feel the same but for a slightly different, or additional, reason. The podcast has been very popular for about 2 years, and now we have a Coronial Inquest and Homicide detectives looking into it. You would assume that if Marion was alive, she would have known all this was occurring. I don't believe a person could sit back and let this get to this point. Marion would have gone into her local police station and put the issue to rest by now if she was alive.

I only found out about this a few weeks ago from FB. I’m in Victoria Australia and there has not been much in the media. I would assume if Marion doesn’t use social media and she is not in qld or nsw she may not have heard about it either.

Imo it need a hell of a lot more media publicity both around Australia and os

 

[sunnynz]

I only found out about this a few weeks ago from FB. I’m in Victoria Australia and there has not been much in the media. I would assume if Marion doesn’t use social media and she is not in qld or nsw she may not have heard about it either.

Imo it need a hell of a lot more media publicity both around Australia and os

Yes, this was my thought too. I'm in New Zealand and the only other people I know who know about this case are fellow podcast junkies. None of my family or friends would have a clue this was all happening.

 

[vivienbee]

I love WS but sometimes I wish it was a bit more like Reddit where we could more easily break things down into topics. I get so lost in the thread and constantly find things I want to comment on and then misplace them in the reams of text, or comments that have a lot of value just get swallowed up and never discussed.