Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[Loxoli]

Finally listened to the Inquest part four episode. The Norfolk Island chat jumped out at me - the picture of Norfolk pines that Marion gave Sally before she left and said 'think of me when you look at this'. The fact that a passport wouldn't have been needed to travel there either - we know Florabella's passport was used to come back into Australia but it never left, but what if the person (be it Marion or an imposter) who came in on that passport left and went to Norfolk Island under a different name? Marion's name, or something else entirely?

Maybe Marion was always planning to end up in Norfolk Island because it was a place she'd previously visited and loved and she knew it would be easy to move there as an Australian and fly below the radar? She and whoever her male companion was wouldn't stick out as foreigners. Perhaps the whole England/Europe/Luxembourg thing was a way to throw people off the scent. Perhaps a genuine holiday in England, then a return to withdraw her money before leaving for NI. With her family and friends thinking her plans was to travel on to other places in Europe - Luxembourg, Amsterdam, the Orient Express.... A whole continent for people to focus their search on for her once they realised she'd gone. When all the time she was not that far away on NI?

Perhaps she thought withdrawing the money in small amounts wouldn't raise the red flags the way massive withdrawals would. And then the final big $80k withdrawal was done on the day of or day before departure to NI because she knew by the time her family found out about it she'd be gone.

How much has Marion's story been shared in Norfolk Island? I feel like we haven't discussed this angle before but if someone can please point me to the relevant posts if we have!

I would imagine that it would be very hard to live and earn income in an Australian destination like Norfolk Island without using Medicare, the ATO, superannuation, bank accounts, identification such as a driver’s license, etc. IMO, there are two options here that I can think of. She had another unknown identity that she has lived under, or that the police proof of life checks on bank accounts, licenses, ATO etc., were not conducted correctly and she went under the radar.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I am a bit confused in the inquest the podcast said no on knew about the trip, however I can see we discussed it back in 2019 so it must have been part of one of the podcasts ? can anyone remember which one ?

View attachment 303776

Yes, it was mentioned by Greg E, groundsman at TSS in Episode 13 "A Tangled Web", at 32.30 he says "we went away, over to Norfolk Island. Phone call with GE starts at 30.27 in Episode 13.
Haha @KiwiNZ, posted at same time

 

[KiwiNZ]

This is one of the reasons I wish there was also a transcript of the podcasts.
It would be much easier to find stuff.

Found it - 13. A Tangled Web - interview with Greg @22 mins.

He just said they had been away to Nolfork Island but that is all he said and Sally nor Alison didn't question him any further on it

 

[KiwiNZ]

double post

 

[sunnynz]

I would imagine that it would be very hard to live and earn income in an Australian destination like Norfolk Island without using Medicare, the ATO, superannuation, bank accounts, identification such as a driver’s license, etc. IMO, there are two options here that I can think of. She had another unknown identity that she has lived under, or that the police proof of life checks on bank accounts, licenses, ATO etc., were not conducted correctly and she went under the radar.

Right - I know very little about Norfolk Island. I’m thinking the cash she withdrew may have kept her going for a while depending how expensive it is to live there? Perhaps she also had financial support for her love interest? Perhaps she didn’t live long enough for it to matter? Not sure. Just another angle to look into.

 

[Loxoli]

Right - I know very little about Norfolk Island. I’m thinking the cash she withdrew may have kept her going for a while depending how expensive it is to live there? Perhaps she also had financial support for her love interest? Perhaps she didn’t live long enough for it to matter? Not sure. Just another angle to look into.

I know very little about it too and that is just my guess. I have no idea what the actual laws and processes are, but hopefully someone can correct me if I’m wrong. I still think the possibility is there either way.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I found it also but I was more commenting on that I would like transcripts of the podcasts.

He just said they had been away to Nolfork Island but that is all he said and Sally nor Alison didn't question him any further on it

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's only in recent years that Norfolk islanders could get Medicare and other benefits. I think that started in 2006 ?
On the other hand, for the first time, they would have to pay tax which didn't go down very well.

I've always been fascinated by some of those islands, Pitcairn, Norfolk etc so I always read and watch everything about them.

 

[sunnynz]

It's only in recent years that Norfolk islanders could get Medicare and other benefits. I think that started in 2006 ?
On the other hand, for the first time, they would have to pay tax which didn't go down very well.

I've always been fascinated by some of those islands, Pitcairn, Norfolk etc so I always read and watch everything about them.

Pitcairn is fascinating! Just started reading about Norfolk and didn’t realise the ancestral ties with Pitcairn.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's amazing isn't it and a real life adventure story of how a group of people came to be where they are.

Pitcairn is fascinating! Just started reading about Norfolk and didn’t realise the ancestral ties with Pitcairn.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I have read and listened to all of Marion’s postcards and letter home in 1997 (that we currently know of). None of them make me believe this was a woman intending returning to Australia on the 2 Aug 1997. They don’t suggest cunning and subterfuge in my view.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

To me the Rye connection grows stronger. Why do a bank transfer to a small town on the coast of East Sussex?

She clearly planned to visit that quiet part of England before she even left Australia. We now know from the recently discovered postcard that she went there and I think the odds are she stayed there too. On her own or with someone?

She never touched the Rye money. Was this the end of the road for Marion?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

1996/97 Tunbridge Wells Yellow Pages. Car hire firms for the South East of England

 

[Bibno]

Correct so she must have gone to one of these places on her travels to see red squirrels. Top places to spot red squirrels

I didn't know squirrels weren't common, or even present, in Australia -- they certainly are in Kent. It's possible that Marion wasn't as aware of all the different types of squirrel and thought that any squirrel was a Red Squirrel. I also think that if she'd been to Brownsea Island or the Isle of Wight (the only places in the South where you can see Red Squirrels) she would have mentioned it. Both places are right up Marion's street and she would have loved them. Both are much more exciting than Alfriston.

 

[SaintGertrude]

When con man P Foster was arrested in Byron Bay in 2017 his getaway would have taken him to Vietnam via Norfolk Island. Conman Peter Foster Faces New Charges with False Irish Passport

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re squirrels. I didn't know there are some here, including the descendants of ones that escaped from a zoo in Perth (Western Australia)

The rise and fall of Perth's palm squirrels

Despite its adorable appearance and apparently benign presence in the inner suburbs of Perth, the palm squirrels are an invasive species and constitute a danger to the environment.

Following the trapping efforts of the last three years, Mr Strange believes there are now fewer than 10 squirrels left in Perth.

And elsewhere here.

The Queensland Department of Agriculture and Fisheries reported that Indian palm squirrels were a high-risk species, with major pest potential in Queensland, the Northern Territory and northern WA due to favourable weather conditions.

They could have a major impact on fruit and nut production, and Brisbane would offer them ideal conditions.

 

[Estelle]

I would imagine that it would be very hard to live and earn income in an Australian destination like Norfolk Island without using Medicare, the ATO, superannuation, bank accounts, identification such as a driver’s license, etc. IMO, there are two options here that I can think of. She had another unknown identity that she has lived under, or that the police proof of life checks on bank accounts, licenses, ATO etc., were not conducted correctly and she went under the radar.

We need to look at the history of Norfolk Island. In 1997, as far as I know, Norfolk Island was a tax free haven, Australians could not buy a house there. They did not have Medicare and so on.

 

[Estelle]

To me the Rye connection grows stronger. Why do a bank transfer to a small town on the coast of East Sussex?

She clearly planned to visit that quiet part of England before she even left Australia. We now know from the recently discovered postcard that she went there and I think the odds are she stayed there too. On her own or with someone?

She never touched the Rye money. Was this the end of the road for Marion?

I have often stayed with people around the world in their own homes for free as I am a member of several hospitality clubs. I did not know these hosts beforehand. I was also often given a contact name from friends and they offered to host me for a few days or longer if we got on.

I am now wondering whether Marion was offered free accommodation near Rye by scammers and in return she offered to pay for the car rental and they said they would show her around at least on weekends.

Did Marion ever state that she stayed in a hotel or BnB? Of course, she could have done that as well during the week. But if she was murdered, it would be far easier to commit it and hide her body if Marion and her belongings were in a private home.

 

[FullMinder]

The police have a duty to locate Marion. Full stop. Doesn't matter what her intentions were or what the investigators thought her intentions were between 1997 and today. According to the law, she is still missing.

For the longest time, my instinct was that she met with foul play. And I still do think that. Mostly because the proof-of-life checks have turned up empty.

Yet, since the inquest, I see more of a gray area now for two reasons.

When Marion's friend and Sally both testified that they could see Marion choosing to miss her only daughter's wedding for any reason at all other than being held captive, to me, is troubling. That says more about Marion's character than almost all other anecdotes in the podcast.

On top of that, eek....that letter to Lee. While it reads as fun and exciting and positively merry, the one thing we all know (and she knew) was that she legally changed her name. So, if you get into Marion's mindset, there's something so cold about that line when she mentions meeting another woman named Maz. She's lying by omission, firstly. And secondly, she's showing no sign of guilt that her little sister calls her Maz when, in reality, Maz is no more (and if she had no plan to return, it's only a matter of time until Lee figures out she's been lied to). It's very cold. I'd be hurt. Unless Lee knew she changed her name, you'd think Marion would want to skirt the topic of affectionate nicknames and identities all together in such a short letter.

The reverse of that is like if Marion wrote that letter to her baby sis "Leap" but "Leap" is actually Michalina Philomena Lee Wittelsbach now. Sure, you can call her Leap but she doesn't really go by that name anymore.

I just need to know WHERE ON EARTH IS SHE!?

 

[Estelle]

The police have a duty to locate Marion. Full stop. Doesn't matter what her intentions were or what the investigators thought her intentions were between 1997 and today. According to the law, she is still missing.

For the longest time, my instinct was that she met with foul play. And I still do think that. Mostly because the proof-of-life checks have turned up empty.

Yet, since the inquest, I see more of a gray area now for two reasons.

When Marion's friend and Sally both testified that they could see Marion choosing to miss her only daughter's wedding for any reason at all other than being held captive, to me, is troubling. That says more about Marion's character than almost all other anecdotes in the podcast.

On top of that, eek....that letter to Lee. While it reads as fun and exciting and positively merry, the one thing we all know (and she knew) was that she legally changed her name. So, if you get into Marion's mindset, there's something so cold about that line when she mentions meeting another woman named Maz. She's lying by omission, firstly. And secondly, she's showing no sign of guilt that her little sister calls her Maz when, in reality, Maz is no more (and if she had no plan to return, it's only a matter of time until Lee figures out she's been lied to). It's very cold. I'd be hurt. Unless Lee knew she changed her name, you'd think Marion would want to skirt the topic of affectionate nicknames and identities all together in such a short letter.

The reverse of that is like if Marion wrote that letter to her baby sis "Leap" but "Leap" is actually Michalina Philomena Lee Wittelsbach now. Sure, you can call her Leap but she doesn't really go by that name anymore.

I just need to know WHERE ON EARTH IS SHE!?

Just reading what you have said here makes me think that Marion definitely had narcissistic personality disorder.