Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Another plausible scenario would be that she believed they would both be changing their names to F Remakel. Perhaps some tall story about why this was needed in order to start a fresh life with her, not unlike the story he probably told DW back in the 70s.

Oh I think the reason behind MB’s was love and sadly believing him

 

[ruby925]

All very plausible. I can't find any notes on it, but I have a feeling that the FNR driving license was renewed once in Australia and then allowed to expire.. I thought it was 1996 ie two years after the ad, but before MBs trip to Europe. I am sure counsel asked about the license/expiry..anyone got that on a timeline please before I listen again tomorrow?

 

[gymtonic]

I made notes of that name change in 1969, which was introduced by counsel at the inquest as he applied for a permit to remain as WW and it was granted to FDH (after a deed poll name change), and I subsequently listened again to this exchange to confirm it. However, there is no other reference to this anywhere in the NAA notes, so now I am wondering if this was actually when citizenship was granted in 1976?

I agree. I believe this was mentioned once before (can’t remember when and who by now…I’m sounding more like RB!) and when I consulted all the notes I had from verified sources (E.g. NAA) I could not find documents of an official name change prior to 1976 (just prior to marrying DW and prior to obtaining citizenship).

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

All very plausible. I can't find any notes on it, but I have a feeling that the FNR driving license was renewed once in Australia and then allowed to expire.. I thought it was 1996 ie two years after the ad, but before MBs trip to Europe. I am sure counsel asked about the license/expiry..anyone got that on a timeline please before I listen again tomorrow?

Hmm I will have to check that.. you may be right my dates are possibly out. You are right he applied then renewed it for another 5 years but not sure of expiry date.

 

[gymtonic]

Found the STOP card P104, this was because RB had overstayed his initial period of 3 months by 24Aug69, but actually he was already progressing his leave to remain/residence status, which was approved on 2Oct69.

That was my take on the STOP card too.
A couple of points “of interest” I noted in relation to the 1976 name change/ Deed Poll form (i.e. IMO interpretation only), was that:

On his signature block for the new name he starts to write Frederick W, and then writes David over the top of the W. He also indicates on that form that he was also previously known as Frederick de Hedevary and WW. IMO suggesting that he was using a FdH alias and formally applying for a name change from WW to FDdH.

There are some really subtle clues in these forms and perhaps (IMO) that was what AC was referring to…that he seemed to have been using an alias of FdH prior to his offical name change to FDdH??
IMO MOO

 

[Littleguy7]

Hmm I will have to check that.. you may be right my dates are possibly out. You are right he applied then renewed it for another 5 years but not sure of expiry date.

My recollection was he first got the Qld license in name Remakel in 1988, then renewed in 1992, then expired 1997. Something like that.

 

[gymtonic]

I am ploughing through it again, but just came to the bit re Bernard Dupont, 17 Hampden Street, 4 Paddington, England ....I think this is in Australia as Hampden St in Paddington, London was completely demolished in 1962 and this offence is one of the ones listed in the 1976/77 crimes. Probably not important, but might mean that Bernard not living in France.

The verified criminal record documents in NAA refer to this address in London.

 

[gymtonic]

1997

Hmm I will have to check that.. you may be right my dates are possibly out. You are right he applied then renewed it for another 5 years but not sure of expiry date.

 

[vivienbee]

I am also wondering what else she offered the podcast that we didn't hear the end of , I recall her saying , are you sure her name was Marion ? The podcast phone call was edited imo

Do you remember which podcast ep this was from? Also, thinking about things now, the phrase "are you sure her name was Marion", if she was thinking about RB, is not a good sign.

 

[Estelle]

I had a thought, if our man of many names held MB’s identity documents and had arranged a Power of Attorney at the time of the name change, he could easily have accessed MB’s accounts here in Australia.

Could RB have told Marion to give these documents to him for safe-keeping in a security deposit box at a bank here as she wouldn't need them while overseas and both would have the key to it. He could have told her that all she needed was her passport while overseas. Marion only intended to be away for a year initially at least from what I understood. But did her plans change while she was overseas after she was "married"?

On Marion's Departure card, Marion put her destination as Luxembourg. But when did she have time to even go there in that short time she was supposedly in England? Then on the Arrivals card, she put "Married" housewife in Luxembourg and only staying eight days. Why would Marion have put "Home Duties in Luxembourg"? Surely she would have wanted to check it out first.

However, even if he did have Power of Attorney for Marion Barter, I don't think he used it otherwise, wouldn't there have been reports of a man withdrawing the money?

IMO he needed a woman who looked like Marion to make the withdrawals from a branch where Marion was not known.

Inquiries also revealed that following her disappearance, an unknown person appears to have accessed a bank account belonging to Marion.

Suspicious disappearance of Marion Barter - NSW Police Public Site

 

[vivienbee]

The $20,000 transferred to Barclays Bank in England has a balance around $14,900, and was sent back to CBA. Can be found doing an ASIC search of unclaimed money. Anyway some money has been withdrawn, and it would be useful to know what those transactions were and when. I’m thinking $5000 withdrawal…… and maybe some fees over the years before being returned to CBA…… Unless I’ve missed some info on this account

I'm about to explain this poorly, so bear with me. The fact that Marion transferred $20,000 to the UK account tells us one of two things IMO. Either:

A) Marion only transferred some of her funds across and RB had been expecting her to transfer the whole amount over.

or,

B) Part of RB's ruse was telling her that they were going to spend an extended period of time together in England, just as she originally told her friends and family, and ALWAYS planned on returning to Aus to get the money out, probably without her knowledge. Thus the $20k shortfall he'd eventually get was worth it in the grand scheme of the plan.

Otherwise, I can't see RB telling her to transfer such a large amount to England in the first place. There's no way they'd have needed that much money just for travel expenses and living costs for a short stay, even with the Orient Express trip (if we believe he intended to leave her there as he did with JO).

It would have been much smarter for him, if he was planning on ditching her and accessing her accounts without her, to say, "Don't worry, you don't need much cash. I'll pay for everything." This would have meant that the majority of her money was in one place to access. $20k is nothing to sniff at and I can't imagine RB would have willingly made it more complicated to get to. Adding more than one bank to withdraw from, in separate countries, especially with fake documents, would be an additional hassle that I don't think he'd have chosen.

In either of these scenarios, the likelihood that Marion planned to return to Aus when she did seems slim to none IMO.

 

[vivienbee]

Pardon me if this has already been mentioned, but has anyone been able to verify whether Marion voted in subsequent elections since her disappearance? If she didn't, did she get fined? If she did, is there a record of where the vote was lodged?

Okay, I was today years old when I found out you get fined if you don't vote in Aus.

 

[Estelle]

Hmm I will have to check that.. you may be right my dates are possibly out. You are right he applied then renewed it for another 5 years but not sure of expiry date.

I thought the expiry date was 1997.

 

[Roseberry]

I thought the expiry date was 1997.

It would be great to know the exact expiry date but in any case by May 1997 he had another FNR ID in the form of Marion’s new passport to access whatever was set up under the FNR drivers licence …

 

[centred]

It would be great to know the exact expiry date but in any case by May 1997 he had another FNR ID in the form of Marion’s new passport to access whatever was set up under the FNR drivers licence …

I remember it was near the end of that year

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I thought the expiry date was 1997.

Me too but after after the comment earlier now I’m doubting myself lol

 

[Roseberry]

I remember it was near the end of that year

So needed two forms of ID? or maybe DL alone not adequate? Just trying to fathom why MB had to specifically change to those exact initials at what must have been RB’s direction. Sorry if this has already been discussed!

 

[Liselle]

MB should have submitted a tax return for the financial year 1996/97, but she left before June 30th, so where was her Group Certificate/Income Statement posted to? When she returned, did she submit her tax return in the few weeks she was supposedly in Australia? In this era, the ATO didn't use electronic funds transfer, so MB should have received a refund in the form a cheque (with tear off perforations) attached to a statement. (From my experience, all teachers received a refund in these years!) If so, when and where was this cheque posted to and deposited?

 

[BonnieB]

@BonnieB I think you've nailed it. Part 3 is what happened next.
My theory is they go to some temporary accommodation in Byron Bay where they won't be recognised and he convinces her the best way to access the $ is incremental withdrawal and he'll store in safe custody for her and transfer altogether to an account in her new name. She had indicated on her incoming passenger card a duration stay of 8 days, which is til 10 Aug. She has no transport so is reliant on him. Staying in Byron Bay makes sense as she can access banks. He then buys a car and on 11 August he takes her somewhere remote to stay away from their home areas. The car is used to travel into Byron Bay and other areas to continue making withdrawals until the accounts are drained.
Was she coerced/ forced to make the withdrawals, or did she voluntarily do so and then become a victim. Going with the Occam's Razor theory, it's the latter, ie she voluntarily made the withdrawals then became a victim. Maybe he's even sub-consciously told us this with the lies he's told about getting beaten up and robbed.

Does he at this point abandon her (Grafton, Armidale? You stay here I'll be back in a few days). Or does she start to have doubts about him at some stage and confront him? They row and something happens. Or perhaps she wanted to make contact with her family for Owen's birthday and he couldn't let that happen but didn't have an exit plan.

Yes, I agree that coming back to Australia was not in his plan therefore everything he did from 2nd August was "on the hop" so to speak. I think Marion wanted desperately to believe him; she was caught up in the excitement of a secret love affair but she must have had some doubts back on home territory. She was an intelligent woman and I think at some point her head over-ruled her heart and that was her undoing. I feel, IMO, Grafton is important here.

 

[BonnieB]

All very plausible. I can't find any notes on it, but I have a feeling that the FNR driving license was renewed once in Australia and then allowed to expire.. I thought it was 1996 ie two years after the ad, but before MBs trip to Europe. I am sure counsel asked about the license/expiry..anyone got that on a timeline please before I listen again tomorrow?

It was renewed 2/10/1992 Expired 2/12/1997