Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[ruby925]

Ah! Bugger.
Another date I had in this timeline was …

15 May 1980 - NAA record has his address as 33 Rusbrook St, Redland Bay QLD

1 Aug 1980 - electoral roll has their address as 287 Military Road, Dover Heights, Sydney NSW.

Either the NAA file had an incorrect or old address or they somehow managed to re enroll to vote in an Australian address whilst living overseas.

Regarding DdH flying back to give birth to MdH, the NAA file doesn’t mention any travel outside of AUS for DdH after her return from Germany when talking about this period of time, yet they mentioned the return from Germany so they were looking for her travel details. This is why at first I thought I had missed something but now you’ve raised it I feel less of a dunce.

At the inquest, AC did talk about RB enrolling to vote in different jurisdictions in different names, when he was saying that RB was familiar with how to change names, get a new passport, drivers' licence etc. I got the feeling that they knew there were timeline gaps/names not yet revealed?

 

[fastpiece]

I thought she told Sally about meeting Maz and the 'dentist' on the phonecall? ( maybe not?)

These are the only two postcards I have -

Alfriston in East Sussex is the one that Sally thought was from Tunbridge Wells.

And the other one to a sister where she mentions she is staying with a nice family.

That second postcard I think is the one that came out in the first part of the Inquest - SL didn't know about it. It's a postcard written in Rye and sent from Hastings.

 

[1965school]

I didn’t visit any B&B Oasts in Burwash and Mr aka probably wouldn’t take the risk. Playden Oasts is on the main A268 (Rye Road) route from Tunbridge Wells to Rye. You can’t miss the establishment when driving past. Ideal for a stop, beer & room. Nobody would question any Tourists visiting there.

I checked on ancestry and there has been members of the “v” family in burwash especially mottynsden since 1938 . There were also family members living in Brighton and Hastings as well.

 

[1965school]

I didn’t visit any B&B Oasts in Burwash and Mr aka probably wouldn’t take the risk. Playden Oasts is on the main A268 (Rye Road) route from Tunbridge Wells to Rye. You can’t miss the establishment when driving past. Ideal for a stop, beer & room. Nobody would question any Tourists visiting there.

I checked on ancestry and there has been members of the “v” family in burwash especially mottynsden since 1938 . There were also family members living in Brighton and Hastings as well.

 

[Roseberry]

We’ve questioned drug trafficking before. Does he hide drugs in a bag with womens clothing, then take the key, hide that somewhere else, say in the mens bathroom at the airport and someone else comes along for a pick up???

Or if a bag was in UK, your friends you met up with in Rye, who had taken their boat over from Boulogne via Lille for the day, could swap some things with you.

IK & DdH (with offspring-who would suspect?) first. When that gets too tricky, the next most vulnerable and unsuspecting target market would be older women.

There was a conviction for handling that sort of stuff, I seem to remember.

 

[mishy66]

Regarding DdH flying back to give birth to MdH, the NAA file doesn’t mention any travel outside of AUS for DdH after her return from Germany when talking about this period of time, yet they mentioned the return from Germany so they were looking for her travel details. This is why at first I thought I had missed something but now you’ve raised it I feel less of a dunce.

Yes it is weird !

The both of them, Mother and Son, are out of the country for 9 mths then return. Only to go back Overseas within a few weeks... (Arrive January and MdeH born in April Lux.) Address on passenger card is Naremburn.

Maybe she returns to pack up house or get things sorted at home given they are away now until 1986. ?

He then says he returns home briefly , 1985, giving an address Rangers Rd Cremorne. (NSW drivers license in the name CHAIM F.D.deH. )

Then he ( and presuming all the family) arrive back in Australia 1986 January - another address given-
Ye Old Passy, Tamborine QLD

Another passenger card shows he is then back in Australia, October 1986 (away 19 days as per passenger card) using another address in - Mt Warren Park QLD ( which are unit blocks).
VERY ODD place for him to use as an address.

My thoughts are he has fleeced another woman here at Mt Warren park. MOO

During the early 1980's the estate was the site of several high profile lotteries run by a Brisbane based radio station. Major prize in the " Free Home lottery" was a house & land package in the estate. In one particular lottery, several houses were built along both sides of Schweitzer Street, with the winner given the choice of their preferred house. These houses were open to the public in the lead up to the draw, bringing a great deal to traffic and attention to the estate.

Whereas Rusbrook Street Redland Bay is more what he is use to. MOO

But regardless, that is a heck of alot of properties they are 'living' in, given they are both on pensions


** I think he uses ' Photographer ' , ' Press Photographer' as a ploy to officials, to get around why he is in and out of country so much sometimes for the briefest of times.

 

[Roseberry]

Just putting it out there: Mr C asked about a boat. I went back and revisited the picture of the Chusan someone found way back. In the image it's in dry dock in Buckler's Hard, Hampshire, around Winchester way. registered out of Beaulieu, not the French Rivera one, the one in Hampshire on the Beaulieu River. Not sure if this is anything, or if it's big enough to do longish trips, but you should always wear your life jacket on a boat.
Sorry again, if this connection has already been made.
a-worker-maintains-a-boat-chusan-at-bucklers-hard-brockenhurst-new-forest-hampshire-england-uk-2CAX3CD.jpg

 

[KittensAugustus]

I have been trying to work through searches to find details of his family and so far I'm very confused. I can't find obituaries for any family members but the details I have found seem to suggest:
-Maria's first husband - conscripted - fought in war but did not actually pass until the 1970s
-all three children to first husband
-Child 1 (W) possibly a female
-Child 2 (F) possibly deceased
-Child 3 no records (could this be Ric?)

Second husband married soonish after first husband goes to war. No records.

My current conspiracy theory- husband 1 and 2 are the same person. Husband 1 changed his name after the war to AW.

Has anyone had any more luck than I have?

 

[Roseberry]

At the inquest, AC did talk about RB enrolling to vote in different jurisdictions in different names, when he was saying that RB was familiar with how to change names, get a new passport, drivers' licence etc. I got the feeling that they knew there were timeline gaps/names not yet revealed?

Yes, such a long gap between when DdeH 'retired' from her jetset life to MB in 1997. And then again from 1999 to when he ceased ops in 2012? How many could you fit in that time period, if there were 3 between '97-'99? The former would probably still have been sourced via newspaper personals/chance meetings, the latter via dating sites. If he had a computer.

So many other aliases were asked about.

 

[car54]

I'd like some clarification on the date the last withdrawal was made at the Colonial Bank, Ashmore. Searches in this forum suggests the date was 15th October 1997. But I just saw a date of 5th October given by former director of the Salvation Army's family tracing unit Betty Brown when she told the Coroner's Court she wrote to Ms Barter's father, John Wilson, in 1998 to say Ms Barter had "definitely" been sighted at a Colonial Bank branch in Ashmore, Queensland on October 5, 1997.

Missing mother Marion Barter was 'definitely' seen at bank months after she vanished, inquest told

The important question then is when was Marion last seen..
1. At the Colonial Bank Ashmore on 5th October?
2. At the Grafton Optometrist on 13th October?
3. At Colonial Bank Ashmore on 15th October?

I see a statement on WS as follows ..
$80000 withdrawal from Ashmore branch. (Note: some MSM reported this as happening on 5th October, however the podcast team confirmed the 15th October date).

I'd love to know the actual date because if Marion was supposedly buried at Armidale, then in the 3rd scenario RB and Marion would have driven from Grafton to the bank at Ashmore say on the 15th October only to drive all the way back to Grafton and onto Armidale, assuming once RB had all the money and he would want to finalise the relationship swiftly. IMO

 

[mishy66]

I have been trying to work through searches to find details of his family and so far I'm very confused. I can't find obituaries for any family members but the details I have found seem to suggest:
-Maria's first husband - conscripted - fought in war but did not actually pass until the 1970s
-all three children to first husband
-Child 1 (W) possibly a female
-Child 2 (F) possibly deceased
-Child 3 no records (could this be Ric?)

Second husband married soonish after first husband goes to war. No records.

My current conspiracy theory- husband 1 and 2 are the same person. Husband 1 changed his name after the war to AW.

Has anyone had any more luck than I have?

I am not sure I follow but here is the family tree that shows first husband dies in 1943
And the WW showing female I personally think is just human error as other trees show male

Family tree of Maria Coppenolle

 

[KittensAugustus]

Yes I have seen that one but if you dig further it appears that husband 1 did not die until the 70s

 

[mishy66]

Sorry if this has been posted prior but I have been looking at the Burwash area and found this interesting.
I realise it is not the date FdeH was there with family but none the less, coins are his interests..
#Brighton Bits: Roman coin hoard acquired for Brighton

 

[gymtonic]

Does sound the perfect spot for a stop-off. I'd put a pin in that, if you haven't already. Don't suppose you happened to have a nosy through the old visitor books while you were there?

Somebody a while back did a search of companies (French or Belgian. I think) and found one with one of the director's surnames as Maslowski (sp?) and queried "Maz?". Neither shows up on the search bar, can anyone remember?

yes, that was me. Dorothea Maslowska and Cordemans et Cie was the company

 

[Roseberry]

Sorry if this has been posted prior but I have been looking at the Burwash area and found this interesting.
I realise it is not the date FdeH was there with family but none the less, coins are his interests..
#Brighton Bits: Roman coin hoard acquired for Brighton

RB would've been furious! Right there under his very nose all along, and no little old ladies required! The finder, TS, writes detective novels and lives in a converted oast house once owned by Rudyard Kipling! How easy to fake a find?
Good to meet you…author Tim Symonds

 

[Liselle]

Yes, such a long gap between when DdeH 'retired' from her jetset life to MB in 1997. And then again from 1999 to when he ceased ops in 2012? How many could you fit in that time period, if there were 3 between '97-'99? The former would probably still have been sourced via newspaper personals/chance meetings, the latter via dating sites. If he had a computer.

So many other aliases were asked about.

 

[mishy66]

Yes I have seen that one but if you dig further it appears that husband 1 did not die until the 70s

I am still lost. Can you share this death date? I am not sure any of what you have found has been posted as most have researched this tree to the nth degree, so would love a new line of investigation.

On 17 October 1908, Congo Free State was annexed by Belgium and became known as Belgian Congo.

 

[Liselle]

Sometimes I think RB has a whole other family in Belgium or France and if we look in reverse, tells this family he is going to Australia for "business"! Also, having lived sporadically (loads of overseas adventures!) in Australia for 50+ years, with an Australian-born wife and Australian educated children, his grasp of understanding and speaking English is either deplorable or fabricated! IMO there are more aliases, addresses and bank accounts. In 2012, when RB stops going to Europe, had there been a death in this family that didn’t require him returning or did his scam get discovered by this family?And, this was at a time when he could have taken advantage of reduced airfares using "staff discount for close family", through his daughter, who was a Qantas flight attendant from 2010-2015.

 

[mishy66]

RB would've been furious! Right there under his very nose all along, and no little old ladies required! The finder, TS, writes detective novels and lives in a converted oast house once owned by Rudyard Kipling! How easy to fake a find?
Good to meet you…author Tim Symonds

Yes I loved reading about Tim. His enthusiasm at finding this haul made me smile. Just imagine finding all this in a field!

 

[mishy66]

Sometimes I think RB has a whole other family in Belgium or France and if we look in reverse, tells this family he is going to Australia for "business"! Also, having lived sporadically (loads of overseas adventures!) in Australia for 50+ years, with an Australian-born wife and Australian educated children, his grasp of understanding and speaking English is either deplorable or fabricated! IMO there are more aliases.

100% agree!!!!! On the money here.